Where No Man Has Gone Before

[Mendon]

This, to me, is an excellent episode. Sure, there's a nice little science fiction tale, but more than that, it gives us these characters we've never seen before, and in some cases will never see again, and imbues them with a real sense of history. Unlike the pilots of later series, which all depict the maiden voyages of their crews, Where No Man Has Gone Before introduces us to a crew that's already been serving together for years. The relationships are in place, and even though we've only just met them, we're sad to see Mitchell and Kelso go. We feel the impact their loss must have on the rest of the crew.

And it's not just that they were lost that makes compelling drama. The specific circumstances twist emotions even further. Mitchell is transformed into another being in a manner not so dissimilar to Picard as Locutus: one newly detached from the human experience. Unlike Picard, though, Mitchell is not retrieved from his state, and instead meets an early end to protect the rest of the crew. That's good tragedy, and we accept its necessity because the tension between Dehner's and Spock's attitudes toward the new Mitchell make Kirk's dilemma very clear. In this context, it's easy to see how things were allowed to escalate so far.

And so, from our very first trek, we learn just how much of a bitch the stars can sometimes be. One of my favorites.

 

[ChristopherPike]

Part of the reason JJ Abrams' film was such a jarring experience for me, very much cheating by creating its own timeline and not delivering on a tale far more epic in scope. Having spent a few decades living with these Pilots and considering them very much their own entity, with all that implied backstory to the weekly show. TOS had the realistic approach down from the start. Serving officers come and go, and aren't all in place out of the starting gate. I imagine McCoy having been in Starfleet years before Kirk. Them having met when Jim was on the long path to promotion, McCoy temporarily replacing a CMO aboard whichever ship Kirk was serving on. All this pretty occurring simultaneously while Pike was Enterprise Captain with a younger Spock in tow.

 

[Orcus]

This episode was my introduction to ST many, many years ago and, as such, has always been in my top five faves...

 

[Mendon]

Pike, I agree 100% with your description of the Abrams approach as jarring. I imagine that in the original timeline, the crew was assembled much in the way that you describe. But in this new reality, all those people wind up together much more quickly, as if brought together by fate, in defiance of the natural forces that would be likelier to keep them apart. It helps communicate the idea that these heroes and the bonds between them are larger than life, but the implication seems to be that all they did in their pre-Enterprise careers in the old timeline was more or less irrelevant to their fated development. I think that's a little hokey, personally, particularly as a fan of the bits and pieces of their backstory that were revealed in episodes like Where No Man Has Gone Before.

 

[Sky]

It helps communicate the idea that these heroes and the bonds between them are larger than life, but the implication seems to be that all they did in their pre-Enterprise careers in the old timeline was more or less irrelevant to their fated development.

Exactly. And at the same time as they become larger than life, they become, for me at least, somehow less interesting. Me, I liked their individual paths which took them to the Enterprise and the more realistic approach of a real ship with a real crew which changes from time to time.

 

[Mendon]

Sure, I can understand that. Because if these people are cosmically fated to come together, can anything in the cosmos be expected to threaten their survival?

I won't say that guarantees uninteresting drama, but it does provide some formidable challenges to prospective writers.

 

[T'Girl]

In the original trek time line, Captain Kirk was new to the Enterprise at the begining of the episode, maybe being it's captain less than a year, when star fleet order him to the edge of the galaxy.

In JJ's time line, Kirk at thirty-four years of age will have been captain of the Enterprise for thirteen years, when star fleet sends the orders for the mission. He'll be a different man, who will make different decisions.

At the end if the new movie, Kirk should of known Gary Mitchell for two years, Gary being fifteen (?). Did they even meet? With Kirk a instant captain, instead of working up through the rank, will he be a instructor at the acadamy.

Where will they build their friendship.


T'Girl

 

[Procutus]

^

Kirk is 28 in J.J.'s film when he becomes captain, so at 34, he'll only have been captain for six years, not thirteen. Sadly though, in this new universe, I don't think we'll get to see the Kirk/Mitchell friendship.

 

[T'Girl]

^He entered the acadamy at eighteen and left after three years is what I took from the movie. You're saying Kirk entered in his mid-twenties?

 

[Kelso]

NuKirk was born in 2233 and became the captain in 2258... 25 years later.

Assuming that Kirkprime became captain in 2265 (which we don't know) then nuKirk has a 7 year head start.

 

[Gary Mitchell]

^

Kirk is 28 in J.J.'s film when he becomes captain, so at 34, he'll only have been captain for six years, not thirteen. Sadly though, in this new universe, I don't think we'll get to see the Kirk/Mitchell friendship.

Yeah, I don't really like this nu universe. I'll be on Delta Vega if anyone wants me... but not the Delta Vega that's in Vulcan orbit..the real one.

 

[T'Girl]

But delta vega is at the "edge" of the galaxy, and if Spock can look into the sky and see vulcan be eaten by red matter, that must mean vulcan is at the edge of the galaxy too.

It's all so clear to me now.


.

 

[Timo]

In the original trek time line, Captain Kirk was new to the Enterprise at the begining of the episode, maybe being it's captain less than a year, when star fleet order him to the edge of the galaxy.

In JJ's time line, Kirk at thirty-four years of age will have been captain of the Enterprise for thirteen years, when star fleet sends the orders for the mission. He'll be a different man, who will make different decisions.

One might argue that Kirk was originally sent out of our galaxy specifically because he was young, green and, let's face it, expendable...

The Kirk that saved Earth from annihilation at the age of 28 would not be considered expendable. He might be the guy sent out to find out what went wrong with the OTHER guy they sent first.

^He entered the acadamy at eighteen and left after three years is what I took from the movie. You're saying Kirk entered in his mid-twenties?

That's pretty much the central plot point and defining characteristic of nu-Kirk: that he stayed the hell out of the Academy until hustled in there in his mid-twenties. And that, apart from nu-Spock's story of alienation, is probably the only part of the movie that is realistic both in the usual Star Trek terms and in real-world ones, isn't a massive plot contrivance and coincidence, and offers the audience something to sympathize with.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Captain Robert April]

Whereas Kirk Prime entered the Academy at age 17, spent four years there, had his training cruise on the USS Republic, where he logged that mistake of Ben Finney's, then shipped out on the USS Farragut, led the planetary survey of Tyree's planet, won an accommodation for his part in the Axanar Peace Mission, had that fight with the vampire cloud, went back to the Academy as an instructor for a while, went back out to field duty, got command of a destroyer, and then assumed command of the Enterprise from the newly promoted Fleet Captain Pike.

All of that backstory effectively wiped out by JJ and his merry band of miscreants, at least for this new Kirk, who I'm not so sure I like all that much.

 

[ChristopherPike]

^ I still think there's potential in showing those 100% Nero-free aspects on screen... serialized on television more than film, since as the movie proved - fast paced and lightweight is now the only viable form of big screen storytelling today.

Worst of all, in a final bitter irony (for me anyhow), with the success of Star Trek... writers are talking about linked sequels (a lá TWOK/TSFS/TVH). That, coupled with a more traditional prequel storyline is what I wanted to begin with. For these films to take their time on a single epic tale, criss-crossing their way through Spock/Kirk/McCoy's past histories (running into future collegues along the way), finishing up with them arriving aboard the Enterprise, and setting off on the original five year mission. An overlapping arc probably beginning at the academy (or skipping ahead to a first assignment) and ending sometime close to WNMHGB.

 

[Procutus]

^

Kirk is 28 in J.J.'s film when he becomes captain, so at 34, he'll only have been captain for six years, not thirteen. Sadly though, in this new universe, I don't think we'll get to see the Kirk/Mitchell friendship.

Yeah, I don't really like this nu universe. I'll be on Delta Vega if anyone wants me... but not the Delta Vega that's in Vulcan orbit..the real one.

THAT was one of my huge problems with this film. Okay, I can except the fact that Delta-Vega was portrayed differently than it was in WNMHGB, but when Old Spock is standing on the surface watching Vulcan implode, I'm like WTF? I understand all about creative liscense, but this was just blatant disregard for the source material, IMO.

Even if my theory about this being a totally alternate universe to begin with that Nero arrived in (not the past of the TOS/TNG/DS9 universe), the spatial positions of the damn planets can't have changed.

My suspension of disbelief ended at that point in the film.

 

[Captain Robert April]

What's telling is that TIIC knew full well that Delta Vega is nowhere near Vulcan, but they felt it was important enough to have that little "homage" that they stuck it in anyway, i.e., they felt it was that important to include a reference that would only be picked up by the very fans who would know full well that the reference is as wrong as it can be and would be most likely to be irritated by it.

What they considered "honoring the original show" would be better described as pandering.

 

[Kelso]

THAT was one of my huge problems with this film. Okay, I can except the fact that Delta-Vega was portrayed differently than it was in WNMHGB, but when Old Spock is standing on the surface watching Vulcan implode, I'm like WTF? I understand all about creative liscense, but this was just blatant disregard for the source material, IMO.

I don't mind there being a planet that close-TAS and TMP started that, anyway- but they should have called it "T'Khut." IMO, that would have been a better reference for the fanboys.

Though, it's more likely that they just liked the name "Delta Vega." Either way, it doesn't bother me in the least. I shall just pretend that there are two planets out there with the same name.

 

[Captain Robert April]

I find it easier to just ignore the whole mess.

Alternate timeline, doesn't count one whit against the official record, doesn't effect anything outside of it's own little pocket, so it's not even worth trying to figure out.

Just a big, dumb, bombastic popcorn flick with less scientific credibility than a Bugs Bunny cartoon. If it didn't have a Star Trek label on it, we wouldn't even bother discussing it.

 

[Timo]

Oh, I dunno. The actors at least were excellent, and had a couple of cool lines. It's just that the story was missing from between those lines.

A place named Delta Vega may be located just about anywhere in the universe as such, although one would expect to find it near the star Vega. In theory, it could be that Vulcan orbits Vega, even if in the real world Vega assuredly has no planets...

But it makes no storytelling sense to have it located near Vulcan! If it really were in the Vulcan system, it wouldn't make sense to have a Starfleet installation there - it negates the aspect of Starfleet not knowing what was going on in the Vulcan system!

Of course, Spock was known for being a weird alien telepath, even in this movie, so the death of his homeworld could well be a weird alien telepathic vision from across the universe. Thus, Delta Vega could even lie in its "WNMHGB"-established location, considering that STXI starships apparently do something like five lightyears per minute.

But the location of Delta Vega still doesn't make much storytelling sense. It's where Nero dropped Spock, so it should be in the direction Nero came from. But Starfleet's main forces are in that direction, too, according to Pike and nu-Spock both. Why didn't they get involved? The thing they were doing obviously wasn't that important, as it never gets mentioned at the end of the movie...

Timo Saloniemi