What the heck is the Xenomorph doing at the end of "Alien?"

[Uxi]

Given that each egg must be capable of producing a queen (they are the same species and so the genetic information for producing a queen must be in each individual), I'd say that the life cycle would go like this...

Egg hatches, produces face hugger, infects a life form.
Face hugger implants chest burster.
Chest burster develops. If other xenos are detected (pheromones in the air or some other mechanism) then certain hormones are supressed, and a normal xeno drone will develop. If pheromones are not detected, then those hormones are not suporessed. Presence of those hormones in the chest burster will lead it to grow into a queen.

Great summary for how I always figured it had to be. I realize that Cameron's queen was contrary to original intent, but even after I didn't figure it was mutually exclusive and that if the xeno was bred as a bioweapon or just happened to evolve that way, even a lone drone could take a different path to creating facehugger eggs out of victims to perpetuate instead of just wondering off to die without a queen like most of our inspects would. In this case even if the xeno in Alien wasn't a queen, there would be some chance one of the eggs it had created out of it's victims either would or could be.

 

[TremblingBluStar]

It's a little hard to tell for looking but you do get a glimpse of Brett who's a bit further along and more egg like than Dallas. There was no queen in the original concept of the alien life cycle, that was purely James Cameron's invention. It still works though, especially if you retcon that one of the eggs in a queen. Makes sense if you think about it as it gives the aliens the ability to infest a population starting with just a single spore. If they are dependent on queens then a lone egg will just dead-end.

Yeah. I never cared for the alien queen concept myself. It only really makes sense if an ordinary alien has the capability to change into a queen in an environment where there isn't one. Some insects are capable of doing this, I believe.

 

[Candlelight]

Sort of like if someone on a nuclear sub disabled all of the cooling systems.

Heck, just cut the propeller shaft, thing'll drop like a stone.

 

[Reverend]

Given that each egg must be capable of producing a queen (they are the same species and so the genetic information for producing a queen must be in each individual), I'd say that the life cycle would go like this...

Egg hatches, produces face hugger, infects a life form.
Face hugger implants chest burster.
Chest burster develops. If other xenos are detected (pheromones in the air or some other mechanism) then certain hormones are supressed, and a normal xeno drone will develop. If pheromones are not detected, then those hormones are not suporessed. Presence of those hormones in the chest burster will lead it to grow into a queen.

You'll not that the alien in the first movie looked different to the ones in the second movie (it had the smooth covering on it's head, but the drones in the second movie had bumpy heads). This smooth covering could be the part that grows out to be that huge fan that the queen has. We never got a chance to see it in the first movie because the xeno was still a baby.

With this logic, the xeno in the first movie was a queen, which explains why it was able to lay the eggs we saw in the extended version. And this shows that a lone will not be a dead end even if they are dependent on queens.

I think it'd be more a case of "if no queen is detected, drone will make the area safe, convert hosts into queen eggs and go dormant." Whether all the "manufactured" eggs are queens is up for debate. On the one hand it'd want to maximise the chances of a queen surviving, but on the other we have no idea what would happen if two queens are born in proximity. Would they seek to kill their opposite number, nest together for safety or simply avoid each other and nest as far apart as possible.

If they are "natural" creatures then you'd think they wouldn't tolerate a rival queen, but that kind of behaviour in nature is usually to protect one's own genetic line and offspring. Whether or not they're "natural" life-forms, the xenos appear to be essentially clones. There's no mention of sexual dimorphism and indeed we saw in Alien Resurrection that a queen doesn't need to be fertilised to produce eggs so it's unlikely that there are any males in the nest. Indeed, as the hosts appear to be the only source of any genetic variation, it doesn't seem likely that two queens born from the same species - or even from different species originating from the same planet - would perceive one another as "different" enough to be a threat. Actually, the more you look at the xenos, the more likely it seams that they're engineered.

It's a little hard to tell for looking but you do get a glimpse of Brett who's a bit further along and more egg like than Dallas. There was no queen in the original concept of the alien life cycle, that was purely James Cameron's invention. It still works though, especially if you retcon that one of the eggs in a queen. Makes sense if you think about it as it gives the aliens the ability to infest a population starting with just a single spore. If they are dependent on queens then a lone egg will just dead-end.

Yeah. I never cared for the alien queen concept myself. It only really makes sense if an ordinary alien has the capability to change into a queen in an environment where there isn't one. Some insects are capable of doing this, I believe.

Yeah, I think most hive species (ants, bees, etc) have that capability under various circumstances. I think some species also have the ability to reproduce through both parthenogenesis and sexual reproduction, so a multi stage cycle isn't unheard of. Mind you, if the aliens are manufactured bio-weapons as has often been speculated then there could be all kinds of redundancies built in to maximise their effectiveness.

As for the queen itself, it makes the most sense when you consider that the "original" life cycle model gives diminishing returns. For every xeno there would need to be two hosts. One to convert into an egg and another to gestate the burster. Once there's a queen on the scene eggs can be mass produced and all captured hosts can be implanted yielding twice ans many xenos.

That was never said. All we know for sure is Ripley's response to Lambert's suggestion that they abandon ship:
"The shuttle won't take four."

However, once Ash is dead, and there's three of them left, the shuttle becomes the best option, as evidenced by the fact that they decide to use it. Or do you think Ripley's gonna make them draw straws in the airlock?

As RedShirt pointed out, at that point they stared grabbing as much coolant for the life-support system as possible. meaning that while four people was out of the question, three was feasible but not 100% guaranteed to be safe. Hence Ripley's line "We'll take our chances in the shuttle. Blow up the ship."

 

[iguana_tonante]

Yeah, Scott said that it was dying. He didn't say that it posed no threat or that Ripley should have known that it posed no threat.

The thing's job was to grow up, breed and die. Common life cycle.

Obviously, including humans. Sometimes, substitute "have fun" for "breed", but still.

 

[Tiberius]

On the one hand it'd want to maximise the chances of a queen surviving, but on the other we have no idea what would happen if two queens are born in proximity. Would they seek to kill their opposite number, nest together for safety or simply avoid each other and nest as far apart as possible.

My idea would suggest that if there was already one queen, then its presence would not allow the development of a second one.

If they are "natural" creatures then you'd think they wouldn't tolerate a rival queen, but that kind of behaviour in nature is usually to protect one's own genetic line and offspring. Whether or not they're "natural" life-forms, the xenos appear to be essentially clones. There's no mention of sexual dimorphism and indeed we saw in Alien Resurrection that a queen doesn't need to be fertilised to produce eggs so it's unlikely that there are any males in the nest. Indeed, as the hosts appear to be the only source of any genetic variation, it doesn't seem likely that two queens born from the same species - or even from different species originating from the same planet - would perceive one another as "different" enough to be a threat. Actually, the more you look at the xenos, the more likely it seams that they're engineered.

I'd have to disagree with you there. Just because they can lay eggs without mating doesn't mean that they were engineered. There are plenty of animals on eaerth that can do it, including some lizards.

As for the queen itself, it makes the most sense when you consider that the "original" life cycle model gives diminishing returns. For every xeno there would need to be two hosts. One to convert into an egg and another to gestate the burster. Once there's a queen on the scene eggs can be mass produced and all captured hosts can be implanted yielding twice ans many xenos.

The original life cycle (I assume you mean compared to the Alien resurrection one) doesn't give diminishing returns. No host is needed to produce an egg. The queen lays those directly. Only one host is needed.

As RedShirt pointed out, at that point they stared grabbing as much coolant for the life-support system as possible. meaning that while four people was out of the question, three was feasible but not 100% guaranteed to be safe. Hence Ripley's line "We'll take our chances in the shuttle. Blow up the ship."

I don't think that follows. If the shuttle only has three sleep chambers, then four people is out of the question, no matter what. Once they are down to three, they can use it, but they needed to load it with the coolant because the supplies on the shuttle weren't enough.

 

[RoJoHen]

As for the queen itself, it makes the most sense when you consider that the "original" life cycle model gives diminishing returns. For every xeno there would need to be two hosts. One to convert into an egg and another to gestate the burster. Once there's a queen on the scene eggs can be mass produced and all captured hosts can be implanted yielding twice ans many xenos.

The original life cycle (I assume you mean compared to the Alien resurrection one) doesn't give diminishing returns. No host is needed to produce an egg. The queen lays those directly. Only one host is needed.

I'm pretty sure he means the original life cycle as was intended in the very first movie. There was no queen in that scenario.

 

[J.T.B.]

As RedShirt pointed out, at that point they stared grabbing as much coolant for the life-support system as possible. meaning that while four people was out of the question, three was feasible but not 100% guaranteed to be safe. Hence Ripley's line "We'll take our chances in the shuttle. Blow up the ship."

I always figured "take our chances" referred to making it to settled space or being rescued by another vessel, not the shuttle's capacity.

--Justin

 

[RoJoHen]

That's what I thought as well.

 

[Candlelight]

^ Indeed, that explanation is offered by the movie. But that raises another problem - why wasn't the ship's escape vessel large enough to accommodate the entire crew?

Who the hell built the Nostromo? The White Star Line?

The Nostromo had a single shuttle true (from memory with two sleep capsules, or maybe just the one) but it may have had escape pods too. The only reason they didn't use them was their vacinity to Zeta II Reticuli; it would take years for them to reach anywhere (even the Nostromo was 10 months from Earth, although apparently Ripley thought she would "reach the frontier in about six weeks") and they'd be dead before they got anywhere. The only hope was the shuttle, as it had proper propulsion (something which is never really covered in the Alien universe; Ripley can go from Earth to LV426 in 3 weeks in the Sulaco yet it would take the Nostromo 10 months!?) and a stasis system, although they had to get coolant to turn the entire interior of the shuttle into a sleep capsule.

 

[Reverend]

As RedShirt pointed out, at that point they stared grabbing as much coolant for the life-support system as possible. meaning that while four people was out of the question, three was feasible but not 100% guaranteed to be safe. Hence Ripley's line "We'll take our chances in the shuttle. Blow up the ship."

I always figured "take our chances" referred to making it to settled space or being rescued by another vessel, not the shuttle's capacity.

--Justin

That's what I thought as well.

I suppose it could easily be either or both. Regardless, the fact that the shuttle only had two hypersleep tubes is a pretty fair indication that three people would tax the life support during a long flight. They'd have to either leave one person awake with as much food, water and CO2 scrubbers as the shuttle can carry or (more likely) take it in shifts, say a few days to a week at a time. I know I wouldn't trust anyone not to go crazy spending much more time than that on their own. Especially when a crazy person in a confined space filled with buttons could probably do some serious damage.

Ironically, had all three of them made it they they would have probably all died anyway, given how long Ripley was left drifting. I'll assume that engine burn that fried the alien used up what fuel that might have been used for course corrections.

I'm pretty sure he means the original life cycle as was intended in the very first movie. There was no queen in that scenario.

Exactly, "original" as in the concept they were working with when they filmed the first movie in 1979:

Egg/facehugger >>> Host#1 >>> Chestburster/adult >>> Host#2 >>> Egg/facehugger

That works fine starting from one egg, but to really infect a population as opposed to a small isolated group they'd need to be able to mass produce their spores, which is where the queen comes in handy. With the original concept, the aliens can only make as many eggs as there are hosts.
Apply that concept to the plot of Aliens and it's likely the colonists *might* have been able to manage the situation, or at least hold out longer since they'd only be facing half as many xenos per colonist lost.

I'd have to disagree with you there. Just because they can lay eggs without mating doesn't mean that they were engineered. There are plenty of animals on eaerth that can do it, including some lizards.

I didn't say they were engineered because they lay eggs, that'd be stupid. I suspect they're engineered because they're so perfectly adapted to be living weapons it seems unlikely they could have evolved all of these traits through natural selection. Not just the dual redundant reproductive cycles but the incredible metabolism, the ability to adapt to almost any environment and of course the incredibly short gestation and maturation for a creature of that mass. Seriously, how much of what were they eating that could allowed the queen to lay so many eggs and the creatures to produce so much resin? I think there was a cut or unfilmed scene in Alien where the crew discovers it had eaten through most of their food stores, but it was never addressed in the final cut.

Even in the harshest environment, any creature this aggressive and virulent would make itself extinct within a single generation. It'd very quickly wipe out all competition, as well as any host species it might need to continue to reproduce. Indeed, this set up is *ideal* for a bio-weapon because once it's eliminated the target, all one need do is wait until the hives all starve to death and safely collect all the spare eggs to deploy on the next target. It's like they're hard-wired to survive just about everything save their own success. Almost like a built-in self destruct.

Oh and I forgot to mention before about the smooth vs. bumpy alien heads: I'm pretty certain Cameron reasoned that the difference is down to maturity. The first alien we saw didn't live much past a day old. The oldest xenos in Hadley's Hope were something in the order of several months old by the time the marines landed.

 

[RoJoHen]

The Nostromo had a single shuttle true (from memory with two sleep capsules, or maybe just the one) but it may have had escape pods too.

Indeed. "Shuttle" doesn't need to mean "lifeboat."

Ripley can go from Earth to LV426 in 3 weeks in the Sulaco yet it would take the Nostromo 10 months!?)

Well, she had been asleep for 57 years between the first two movies. Propulsion technology had plenty of time to advance.

 

[Admiral Shran]

Plus, the Sulaco was a military vessel. I would assume that means it's propulsion systems were capable of higher speeds than a space semi.

 

[Candlelight]

Ripley can go from Earth to LV426 in 3 weeks in the Sulaco yet it would take the Nostromo 10 months!?)

Well, she had been asleep for 57 years between the first two movies. Propulsion technology had plenty of time to advance.

I worked that out about an hour after i posted but couldn't get back to edit myself. :P

 

[saturn5]

This is what the xenomorph would have done at the end if Ridley had had his way:

"Scott had wanted the Alien to bite off Ripley's head and then make the final log entry in her voice, but the producers vetoed this idea as they believed that the Alien had to die at the end of the film."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien_(film)

Yeah, that would have been terrible, cheapened a masterpiece and made it into some dumb schlock horror. The series had to wait until part 3 for that!

If I recall German subs during WW2 did have scuttling charges although we were still able to recover their Enigma machine and codebooks from one before it sank. If you switched off the cooling systems on a nuclear sub it still wouldn't explode (at least I hope not, there's one moored next to my ship as I write this) but remember this is the future with nuclear fusion etc and it's probably different

 

[Hartzilla2007]

This is what the xenomorph would have done at the end if Ridley had had his way:

"Scott had wanted the Alien to bite off Ripley's head and then make the final log entry in her voice, but the producers vetoed this idea as they believed that the Alien had to die at the end of the film."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien_(film)

Yeah, that would have been terrible, cheapened a masterpiece and made it into some dumb schlock horror.

Not to mention that its out of left field.

 

[Tiberius]

I think it'd be more a case of "if no queen is detected, drone will make the area safe, convert hosts into queen eggs and go dormant."

But this has the disadvantage of that if the one drone is destroyed before he completes his job, then no queens will develop. My idea removes this risk.

Whether all the "manufactured" eggs are queens is up for debate.

With my idea, all the eggs are capable of becoming queens. It requires the presence of a hormone to prevent it from becoming a queen.

On the one hand it'd want to maximise the chances of a queen surviving, but on the other we have no idea what would happen if two queens are born in proximity. Would they seek to kill their opposite number, nest together for safety or simply avoid each other and nest as far apart as possible.

In insect hives, very often a second queen is born when the hive is going to branch off and split in two. Maybe something like that happens. But the problem of two queens would only arise in my idea if two eggs develop at the same time and at the same rate, which is practically impossible for biological systems.

If they are "natural" creatures then you'd think they wouldn't tolerate a rival queen, but that kind of behaviour in nature is usually to protect one's own genetic line and offspring.

Or, as I mentioned above, if the hive is going to colonise a new area.

Whether or not they're "natural" life-forms, the xenos appear to be essentially clones.

Agreed.

There's no mention of sexual dimorphism and indeed we saw in Alien Resurrection that a queen doesn't need to be fertilised to produce eggs so it's unlikely that there are any males in the nest.

Again, agreed. There are some species of lizard that do this, by the way.

Indeed, as the hosts appear to be the only source of any genetic variation, it doesn't seem likely that two queens born from the same species - or even from different species originating from the same planet - would perceive one another as "different" enough to be a threat.

I don't think this follows. There are plenty of animals that are threatened by different species. Cheetahs are threatened by lions. It's whether or not the two are competing for the same resources. In this case, I think they would be.

Actually, the more you look at the xenos, the more likely it seams that they're engineered.

For what purpose though?

As for the queen itself, it makes the most sense when you consider that the "original" life cycle model gives diminishing returns. For every xeno there would need to be two hosts. One to convert into an egg and another to gestate the burster. Once there's a queen on the scene eggs can be mass produced and all captured hosts can be implanted yielding twice ans many xenos.

My idea - that the first alien born will be a queen - negates this idea. As long as she lives long enough, she will begin laying eggs herself. There's nothing we've seen on screen that shows a person being turned into an egg.

As RedShirt pointed out, at that point they stared grabbing as much coolant for the life-support system as possible. meaning that while four people was out of the question, three was feasible but not 100% guaranteed to be safe. Hence Ripley's line "We'll take our chances in the shuttle. Blow up the ship."

I always took the "take our chances" line to be a reference that they were so far away from civilisation. That they might not be found.

 

[TremblingBluStar]

I didn't say they were engineered because they lay eggs, that'd be stupid. I suspect they're engineered because they're so perfectly adapted to be living weapons it seems unlikely they could have evolved all of these traits through natural selection. Not just the dual redundant reproductive cycles but the incredible metabolism, the ability to adapt to almost any environment and of course the incredibly short gestation and maturation for a creature of that mass.

I have to agree. I can't think of any situation in which one creature kills another creature for reproductive purposes in a 1:1 ratio.

Why would the aliens need to be in a human in any regard? For warmth? Food? This was never adequately explained in the films.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Actually, the more you look at the xenos, the more likely it seams that they're engineered.

For what purpose though?

Walking WMDs.

 

[Uxi]

I didn't say they were engineered because they lay eggs, that'd be stupid. I suspect they're engineered because they're so perfectly adapted to be living weapons it seems unlikely they could have evolved all of these traits through natural selection. Not just the dual redundant reproductive cycles but the incredible metabolism, the ability to adapt to almost any environment and of course the incredibly short gestation and maturation for a creature of that mass.

I have to agree. I can't think of any situation in which one creature kills another creature for reproductive purposes in a 1:1 ratio.

Why would the aliens need to be in a human in any regard? For warmth? Food? This was never adequately explained in the films.

Make more eggs? It's not quite 1:1 since that one alien made at least 2-3 eggs in the deleted scene, right?