...Yes, they say he will be taken someplace to get help, but was he held responsible for what happened? Was he even tried for his role in what happened? And where was he sent to be rehabilitated? What did he do after his rehab stint?
What REALLY happened to Dr. Daystrom after 'The Ulitimate Computer?
- Thread starter Shaka Zulu
- Start date
Re: What REALLY happened to Dr. Daystrom after 'The Ulitimate Computer
He went on to become the King of Cartoons.
"Let the cartoon...begin!"
He went on to become the King of Cartoons.
"Let the cartoon...begin!"
Re: What REALLY happened to Dr. Daystrom after 'The Ulitimate Computer
What a journey! He must have used the Enterprise's "lightspeed breakway factor," ended up in the 1790s, where he was vampirized by Dracula! Curious how he had no memory of his life as a 23rd century man when released from his coffin in 1972!
My understanding is that he was transformed into . . . Blacula!
What a journey! He must have used the Enterprise's "lightspeed breakway factor," ended up in the 1790s, where he was vampirized by Dracula! Curious how he had no memory of his life as a 23rd century man when released from his coffin in 1972!
Re: What REALLY happened to Dr. Daystrom after 'The Ulitimate Computer
It's official. Scream, Blacula, Scream is now part of the Trek Canon.
It's official. Scream, Blacula, Scream is now part of the Trek Canon.
Re: What REALLY happened to Dr. Daystrom after 'The Ulitimate Computer
Rather than hook the M-5 unit up to the Enterprise and give it "varchully unlimited power!", Starfleet should have tested M-5 by linking it to another computer-- a virtual simulator that the M-5 thinks is the real deal. The Enterprise, outer space, and other starships would all be simulated in the virtual environment.
Starfleet officers would log on and play the game as if they were on their real ships, and only M-5 wouldn't know it was a virtual environment. Then when the unit went crazy and started killing people, all the lessons could be learned and nobody really dies.
Rather than hook the M-5 unit up to the Enterprise and give it "varchully unlimited power!", Starfleet should have tested M-5 by linking it to another computer-- a virtual simulator that the M-5 thinks is the real deal. The Enterprise, outer space, and other starships would all be simulated in the virtual environment.
Starfleet officers would log on and play the game as if they were on their real ships, and only M-5 wouldn't know it was a virtual environment. Then when the unit went crazy and started killing people, all the lessons could be learned and nobody really dies.
Re: What REALLY happened to Dr. Daystrom after 'The Ulitimate Computer
For NBC's lineup of must-not-see TV.
I enjoy this ep. Always have.
For NBC's lineup of must-not-see TV.
I enjoy this ep. Always have.
Re: What REALLY happened to Dr. Daystrom after 'The Ulitimate Computer
Nobody in a 1968 television audience would have known what the hell they were talking about, because the first home gaming console didn't appear until 1972.
Though I believe the military was using vector graphics for planning strategy at the time.
Nobody in a 1968 television audience would have known what the hell they were talking about, because the first home gaming console didn't appear until 1972.
Though I believe the military was using vector graphics for planning strategy at the time.
Re: What REALLY happened to Dr. Daystrom after 'The Ulitimate Computer
I agree, but I was making an in-universe comment, not a show-biz one.
I agree, but I was making an in-universe comment, not a show-biz one.
Re: What REALLY happened to Dr. Daystrom after 'The Ulitimate Computer
A very sensible plan that should have been carried out, but never was.
My guess as to what happened to Daystrom is that he was 'rehabilitated', was able to get his life back on track, and came up with positronics, but died before he could implement it, leaving the work to a young acolyte, Noonien Soong, (who had already been working on this from another angle based on work from an ancestor).
A very sensible plan that should have been carried out, but never was.
My guess as to what happened to Daystrom is that he was 'rehabilitated', was able to get his life back on track, and came up with positronics, but died before he could implement it, leaving the work to a young acolyte, Noonien Soong, (who had already been working on this from another angle based on work from an ancestor).
Re: What REALLY happened to Dr. Daystrom after 'The Ulitimate Computer
But we don't know whether this happened or not. I'm pretty sure Starfleet would've extensively tested the M-5 before putting it on a ship.
But we don't know whether this happened or not. I'm pretty sure Starfleet would've extensively tested the M-5 before putting it on a ship.
Re: What REALLY happened to Dr. Daystrom after 'The Ulitimate Computer
They did...
Wesley:
If the M-5 works under actual conditions as well as it has under simulated tests, it will mean a revolution in space technology as great as warp drive.
But clearly M-5 knew it was working in a simulator. They should have caused M-5 to mistake the simulator for the real thing. Then it would have shown its true colors, its true engrams I mean, sooner.
No, wait. They may well have let M-5 think the simulated tests were real, but within those sims, the unit was supposed to fire full phasers. And then aboard the Enterprise when told to play nice, it just refused to pull its punches-- this was a condition they never simulated. Interesting.
Now Starfleet has to explain the deaths of over 500 spacemen in peacetime. That goes beyond mere courts-martial and into the realm of a government changing hands in the next election.
They did...
Wesley:
If the M-5 works under actual conditions as well as it has under simulated tests, it will mean a revolution in space technology as great as warp drive.
But clearly M-5 knew it was working in a simulator. They should have caused M-5 to mistake the simulator for the real thing. Then it would have shown its true colors, its true engrams I mean, sooner.
No, wait. They may well have let M-5 think the simulated tests were real, but within those sims, the unit was supposed to fire full phasers. And then aboard the Enterprise when told to play nice, it just refused to pull its punches-- this was a condition they never simulated. Interesting.
Now Starfleet has to explain the deaths of over 500 spacemen in peacetime. That goes beyond mere courts-martial and into the realm of a government changing hands in the next election.
Re: What REALLY happened to Dr. Daystrom after 'The Ulitimate Computer
James P. Hogan addressed this in THE TWO FACES OF TOMORROW, a novel about the creation of the first "true" artificial intelligence. The story begins with an accident caused by a semi-intelligent computer performing an action that seemed like a good idea. The act was highly creative, but demonstrated a lack of "common sense" and judgment.
The dilemma is that computers of the same sort run the rest of human civilization. Going back is out of the question—that would sacrifice the many advances, economy and very lives of far too many people. And continuing with the current generation of computers is untenable following the revealing accident.
While trying to work out a solution, the reader is shown researchers working in the lab with a new generation AI that learns how to deal with the real world by working in a simulation driven by another computer. The problem is the same as the real world problem with the existing computers—reality is just too complicated to plot out in every facet. And putting a human in the loop to provide "judgment" defeats the purpose of using the computers to manage the volume of civilization's daily interactions.
So the next generation AI is placed in charge of a new O'Neill-style space colony, a smaller yet suitably detailed proxy of the world. This should protect Earth in case the experiment gets out of hand, but the AI evolves far faster than anyone had imagined possible...
James P. Hogan addressed this in THE TWO FACES OF TOMORROW, a novel about the creation of the first "true" artificial intelligence. The story begins with an accident caused by a semi-intelligent computer performing an action that seemed like a good idea. The act was highly creative, but demonstrated a lack of "common sense" and judgment.
The dilemma is that computers of the same sort run the rest of human civilization. Going back is out of the question—that would sacrifice the many advances, economy and very lives of far too many people. And continuing with the current generation of computers is untenable following the revealing accident.
While trying to work out a solution, the reader is shown researchers working in the lab with a new generation AI that learns how to deal with the real world by working in a simulation driven by another computer. The problem is the same as the real world problem with the existing computers—reality is just too complicated to plot out in every facet. And putting a human in the loop to provide "judgment" defeats the purpose of using the computers to manage the volume of civilization's daily interactions.
So the next generation AI is placed in charge of a new O'Neill-style space colony, a smaller yet suitably detailed proxy of the world. This should protect Earth in case the experiment gets out of hand, but the AI evolves far faster than anyone had imagined possible...
Re: What REALLY happened to Dr. Daystrom after 'The Ulitimate Computer
Fat Chance Productions presents: that happens only in simulations. In reality, the party in power that caused the debacle spins the whole thing in the media so that it becomes the fault of another political party that had nothing to do with it. Unlike M5, the guilty have no scruples to hamstring their ambitions.
Fat Chance Productions presents: that happens only in simulations. In reality, the party in power that caused the debacle spins the whole thing in the media so that it becomes the fault of another political party that had nothing to do with it. Unlike M5, the guilty have no scruples to hamstring their ambitions.
Re: What REALLY happened to Dr. Daystrom after 'The Ulitimate Computer
They said they tested it, maybe they should have stranded it in the "recreation room"
How would they find out about 500 deaths? We lost over 400 Vulcanians
and a whole solar system to a germ, and then there's Nomad, they make this seem minor. Pluse this thing was a top secret, I'm sure the survivors would have been under orders of silence.
I don't think it's minor, just saying in that context, it might not seem as bad as it does to us. Also, this was actually Starfleet's fault rather than a space monster, so it would hurt, but I think the Federation Council, as I understand it, wouldn't be harmed but a bunch of admirals and a certain commodore would be in trouble. I think that's why Bob ended govenor of that backwater planet.
They said they tested it, maybe they should have stranded it in the "recreation room"
How would they find out about 500 deaths? We lost over 400 Vulcanians
and a whole solar system to a germ, and then there's Nomad, they make this seem minor. Pluse this thing was a top secret, I'm sure the survivors would have been under orders of silence.I don't think it's minor, just saying in that context, it might not seem as bad as it does to us. Also, this was actually Starfleet's fault rather than a space monster, so it would hurt, but I think the Federation Council, as I understand it, wouldn't be harmed but a bunch of admirals and a certain commodore would be in trouble. I think that's why Bob ended govenor of that backwater planet.
Re: What REALLY happened to Dr. Daystrom after 'The Ulitimate Computer
The point seemed rather to be that M-5 never had a clear idea of where it was working... It treated a simulation (the wargames) as reality. This suggests a childishly narrow worldview, while testing should already have pitted the computer against a wide variety of situations. Did none of those test scenarios deal with concepts like "untruth", "bluff", "accounting for human error" and "erring on the side of caution"?
Wesley might simply be saying that M-5 had handled the mechanistic routines of starship command well enough, and the wargames (plus the lead-in planetary survey mission) were the first time the computer faced complications. But that doesn't make sense from today's point of view, because odd complications should be more easily tested virtually than physically, and it's those that M-5 would realistically have learned to handle before entering the wargames, rather than things like tactics or power distribution.
From today's vantage point, it looks as if M-5 really was a splendid success originally, meeting all the criteria in rigorous testing - and simply snapped later on. Unfortunately, the snapping happened at a rather crucial moment, but we don't need to assume that the circumstances of that moment had anything to do with the snapping. M-5 might simply have been doomed to remain sane for a limited period of time only, by design and default, what with being burdened with the memory engrams of a snapping-prone man.
Timo Saloniemi
The point seemed rather to be that M-5 never had a clear idea of where it was working... It treated a simulation (the wargames) as reality. This suggests a childishly narrow worldview, while testing should already have pitted the computer against a wide variety of situations. Did none of those test scenarios deal with concepts like "untruth", "bluff", "accounting for human error" and "erring on the side of caution"?
Wesley might simply be saying that M-5 had handled the mechanistic routines of starship command well enough, and the wargames (plus the lead-in planetary survey mission) were the first time the computer faced complications. But that doesn't make sense from today's point of view, because odd complications should be more easily tested virtually than physically, and it's those that M-5 would realistically have learned to handle before entering the wargames, rather than things like tactics or power distribution.
From today's vantage point, it looks as if M-5 really was a splendid success originally, meeting all the criteria in rigorous testing - and simply snapped later on. Unfortunately, the snapping happened at a rather crucial moment, but we don't need to assume that the circumstances of that moment had anything to do with the snapping. M-5 might simply have been doomed to remain sane for a limited period of time only, by design and default, what with being burdened with the memory engrams of a snapping-prone man.
Timo Saloniemi
Re: What REALLY happened to Dr. Daystrom after 'The Ulitimate Computer
Yes, and perhaps it never had so much power at it's disposal in previous testing. Maybe it's "brain" was too overloaded and then the defect set in, it may have continued for years at that lower power and been fine with no noticable problems, but when that extra power got into it's system it was like a drug and couldn't get enough and wanted more.
Yes, and perhaps it never had so much power at it's disposal in previous testing. Maybe it's "brain" was too overloaded and then the defect set in, it may have continued for years at that lower power and been fine with no noticable problems, but when that extra power got into it's system it was like a drug and couldn't get enough and wanted more.
Similar threads
