What happened to the "Commodore" Rank?
- Thread starter Infern0
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They probably retired it after seeing a bunch of them do crazy/dumb things in Kirk's time as captain.
Fleet Captain is another rank that dropped out of Star Trek parlance, at a similar authority level too.
In real life, the US Navy phased out Commodore in the 1980s and replaced it with Rear Admiral, Lower Half. Therefore it was decided in Star Trek that Starfleet would eliminate the rank as well.
The "Rear Admiral, Lower Half" crap was enacted for political reasons. Congress couldn't rap it's combined head (combined IQ of 90) around the idea of a Flag officer not having rank of Admiral (of some type).
I would have kept the Commodore rank in place - allowing one Flag rank to still have the possibility of commanding a ship in the field. Anyone higher than that would be only a Flag officer, i.e. commanding divisions of the fleet, facilities etc...
I would have kept the Commodore rank in place - allowing one Flag rank to still have the possibility of commanding a ship in the field. Anyone higher than that would be only a Flag officer, i.e. commanding divisions of the fleet, facilities etc...
I think Starfleet Command would have brought it back for Sisko, otherwise they'd have to face him going Sisko on their collective asses.
But, but, but ... Starfleet has nothing to do with the US Navy ... nothing I tell you.
Seriously, it's very possible that the rank of Commodore still exists and we're just not seeing anyone of that rank. It's like TOS and the rank of lieutenant junior grade, there were some officers with a single broken stripe, but for the most part you didn't see them. Seems like you go straight from ensign to full lieutenant.
And that is why, I believe, they dropped it. The U.S. Navy and U.S. Coast Guard were both used in helping define Starfleet (though there have been colonels - Star Trek VI had at least one IIRC).
Do we really know that it was a unilateral move by congress that forced the elimination the rank of "commodore" or whether it was done at the request of the Navy itself (or Joint Chiefs)?
Two reasons: 1) the US Navy dropped it; 2) There was a period when "Commodore" conjured up images of ascot wearing Yacht club ne'er-do-wells.
As do many other authors. Why would one try to put forth the notion that there is only one correct way to setup a fictional military service? If you want, use the Iranian or Chinese navies as your source as they still have commodores.
That was the case during TMP (there was no lieutenant j.g. rank according to a memo associate producer Jon Povill gave to costume designer Bob Fletcher--one broken stripe meant ensign, one full stripe meant lieutenant).
But during TOS, we did see a lieutenant j.g. Joe Tormolen with one broken stripe on his sleeves.
http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x04hd/thenakedtimehd0230.jpg
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Fleet Captain still exists but it's not an official rank, just a position for a particular mission if there's no Admiral in charge out in the field. Like during Redemption when Picard had that position when they had their blockade.
And Captain.
Statistically, we have no particular reason to think that the use of Commodore in Starfleet would have been discontinued. We last heard of one in ST:TMP, after which we have seen up close about a dozen Vice Admirals and just a couple of full, four-pip Admirals in the regular timeline, plus just three two-pip Rear Admirals. In addition to these, there have been unclear cases: lots of background flag officers in the other TOS movies (with very difficult-to-identify pins; many don't even realize Kirk is supposed to be a Rear Admiral), and then these folks in early TNG who wear either zero, one or two pips.
A single-pip Commodore could easily have slipped through the cracks. Or we could have seen several in focus in early TNG, and it's just customary to address all flag ranks as "Admiral" even when some are Commodores and others are Vice Admirals.
Similarly, we have no real statistical reason to think that Lt(jg) or LtCmdr would have been omitted from UESF ranks in ENT, even though we never saw anybody wear those particular rank pins...
It's a bit more complicated with Lt(jg) in ST:TMP, because we did hear not one but two of the heroes address a dashed-braid person as "Ensign" despite said braid that matches that of Lt(jg) Joe Tormolen from TOS. Of course, we could argue that our heroes were out of the loop and unaccustomed to the promotions these people otherwise familiar to them had recently received... But it doesn't seem as if Kirk really knows the "Ensign" he stops at the corridor to ask for directions.
As for Fleet Captain, this title is only used once in all of Star Trek, for Chris Pike's immediate pre-TOS status - so if it ever were a rank, it may have disappeared before TOS already. It might also simply be the very same thing as Captain, though (the "Fleet" thing differentiating the likes of Pike and Kirk from the likes of Mudd and Yates).
Timo Saloniemi
A single-pip Commodore could easily have slipped through the cracks. Or we could have seen several in focus in early TNG, and it's just customary to address all flag ranks as "Admiral" even when some are Commodores and others are Vice Admirals.
Similarly, we have no real statistical reason to think that Lt(jg) or LtCmdr would have been omitted from UESF ranks in ENT, even though we never saw anybody wear those particular rank pins...
It's a bit more complicated with Lt(jg) in ST:TMP, because we did hear not one but two of the heroes address a dashed-braid person as "Ensign" despite said braid that matches that of Lt(jg) Joe Tormolen from TOS. Of course, we could argue that our heroes were out of the loop and unaccustomed to the promotions these people otherwise familiar to them had recently received... But it doesn't seem as if Kirk really knows the "Ensign" he stops at the corridor to ask for directions.
As for Fleet Captain, this title is only used once in all of Star Trek, for Chris Pike's immediate pre-TOS status - so if it ever were a rank, it may have disappeared before TOS already. It might also simply be the very same thing as Captain, though (the "Fleet" thing differentiating the likes of Pike and Kirk from the likes of Mudd and Yates).
Timo Saloniemi
There was no commodore rank in the US Navy when TOS was made, either.
It was also referenced in the original "Star Fleet Technical Manual" published around '75.
Correction: Dagnabbit, had to go dig up my copy ... folks below are correct it was not in the Tech Manual, but bygosh, I seem to recall seeing an illustration of the junior grade/second Lt. somewhere. Maybe a fanzine back in the day? I did find this blurb at Memory Alpha.
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A number of ranks from the various shows and movies--including those that have never actually appeared onscreen--appear in various reference books.
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