Was Deep Space Nine a Starbase?

[Albertese]

We're having a fascinating conversation in the Trek Tech forum about the nature of starbases and I foolishly claimed that DS9 was never referred to as a starbase, while one of our respectable fellow board members claimed it was referred to as "Starbase Deep Space Nine" more than once.

To be fair, it's been a while since I watched the show. I've just finished my collection of TNG DVD's and DS9 is next on the docket. Now I can remember hearing the phrase "Space station Deep Space Nine" but never Starbase. I do remember the Starbase that was the stumpy reused Regula I model during the Dominion War, but I can't recall the "starbase" appellation being applied to DS9 itself.

Am I wrong on this? I'm totally cool with being wrong on this, I might have remembered it wrong. Do any of you niners know of a time the station was called a starbase? if so which episode?

Thanks guys!

--Alex

 

[Sykonee]

I don't think so. To my knowledge, a Starbase is somewhere that Starfleet personally sets up, facilitates, and administrates, making their presence numero uno. A Deep Space station is more like an outpost, where Starfleet personnel may be stationed, but don't have jurisdiction (in Nine's case, Bajorans own the place).

I'm probably missing out/wrong on a bunch of stuff there tho', as I'm not that deep into Trek Trivia.

 

[Kelthaz]

This seems to be an argument over semantics, but whatever. I'm no authority on the subject, but I don't remember DS9 ever being referred to as a starbase.

 

[Jono]

O'Brien calls DS9 a starbase when the Cardassians ato get him in "Tribunal", it probably happened more times but it wasn't very common. Mostly DS9 was just referred to as a "space station".

Edit: Bleh...I see that they already went through this and other examples over in the thread in the Trek Tech forum.

 

[Timo]

There's also "Equilibrium" where Sisko calls his base "Federation Starbase DS9" when trying to impress a Trill.

Yeah, we don't know how "starbase" is defined, and whether DS9 performs those tasks required of one, or possesses the qualities expected of one. Both O'Brien and Sisko could be bluffing, making themselves sound more important than they are - a bit like Sisko in "Vortex" telling the authorities of Rakhar "This is the Federation Starship Rio Grande", when the runabout=starship claim doesn't appear well supported otherwise.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[PKTrekGirl]

I never thought of DS9 as a starbase. And even if there are a handful of oddball examples of sundry characters referring to it as one, I see those more as characters bluffing or scripting/line-reading mistakes what were not large enough to go back and re-shoot.

I guess when I think of a starbase, I think of a place that is at center of a critical supply line (while DS9, being in DEEP SPACE, was at the end of that supply line) and which contains many functions (scientific and other research, training, administrative functions, etc) besides the military (which ended up being DS9's chief purpose during the war).

At the beginning of the show, DS9 was not a starbase because it was at the ass-end of nowhere. By the end of the show, it's very much in the action...but is still almost exclusively military, the only other functions located there being the basics needed to support that military.

Just my 2 cents. And I don't really care what the folks in Trek Tech think.

 

[Saquist]

I never thought of DS9 as a starbase. And even if there are a handful of oddball examples of sundry characters referring to it as one, I see those more as characters bluffing or scripting/line-reading mistakes what were not large enough to go back and re-shoot.

I guess when I think of a starbase, I think of a place that is at center of a critical supply line (while DS9, being in DEEP SPACE, was at the end of that supply line) and which contains many functions (scientific and other research, training, administrative functions, etc) besides the military (which ended up being DS9's chief purpose during the war).

At the beginning of the show, DS9 was not a starbase because it was at the ass-end of nowhere. By the end of the show, it's very much in the action...but is still almost exclusively military, the only other functions located there being the basics needed to support that military.

Just my 2 cents. And I don't really care what the folks in Trek Tech think.

I feel that.
Calling DS9 a starbase is like calling Space Station K-7 Star Fleet Command.

 

[Timo]

DS9 was originally built to do certain things for the Cardassian occupation force. Supporting the Cardassian starfleet is unlikely to have been one of those things. If Bajor, next door to the home system, needed to be a fleet base, then the Union was in deep trouble...

...Although the Union was in deep trouble with the UFP. But even then there apparently was no fleet at Bajor when the trouble ended and Bajor was ceded back to Bajorans.

I'd say DS9 seriously lacked in the ability to support starships. Refueling a few ore transports, perhaps, or sustaining shuttlecraft ops, that I could buy. But whenever a big Starfleet vessel docked at the station, she was probably doing a favor to the station and not vice versa.

Doesn't mean they couldn't call it a starbase anyway; in "Parallels", a tiny comm relay station apparently was called Starbase 47... But in semantic terms, wouldn't Starfleet hate to call DS9 a "Federation starbase" within Bajoran earshot? And if it became a starbase, wouldn't it automatically rate a flag-rank CO?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[C.E. Evans]

I never thought of DS9 as a starbase. And even if there are a handful of oddball examples of sundry characters referring to it as one, I see those more as characters bluffing or scripting/line-reading mistakes what were not large enough to go back and re-shoot.

Except that they weren't any of the above.


IMO, there are different types of starbases out there. Some are multipurpose, while others could be for specific purposes. Regardless of its overall mission, I think the basic definition of a starbase is "a regular port of call or command base for starships."

DS9 may have been unique in the sense that it was originally a Cardassian ore processing station, but it did ultimately become a point of operations for Starfleet in the Bajor Sector and one of the most strategic outposts in the Alpha Quadrant.

 

[DS9 Gal AZ]

I too never considered DS9 a starbase. But then, what is the difference between a "starbase" and a "space station?" I never thought those two terms were interchangeable ...

If I had to hazard a guess, I would say that a space station typically orbits or is adjacent to a planet or other large heavenly body, and a starbase is just hanging out there somewhere in space, not neccessarily close to a planet or solar system. But I have no idea if that's even remotely correct.

 

[Joshonator]

Technically speaking, i'm sure DS9 is not a starbase. Otherwise they would have named it starbase [whatever] instead of deep space nine when they were renaming it from terkoknor (dunno how to spell it). Amirite?

I think it's more of a multi-purpose outpost since it serves as a "pit-stop" sort of services for all sorts of races and is not limited to starfleet vessels.

Not to mention that it is shared by starfleet and the bajoran military.

I think i would call it a "marketplace" or "starfleet embassy" before i called it a starbase.

 

[C.E. Evans]

Technically speaking, i'm sure DS9 is not a starbase. Otherwise they would have named it starbase [whatever] instead of deep space nine when they were renaming it from terkoknor (dunno how to spell it). Amirite?

The following are all examples of starbases that were not named in the "traditional" sense, and yet were referred to as starbases:

Farpoint Station
Xendi Starbase 9
Starbase Lya 3
Starbase Montgomery
Starbase G-6
Starbase Earhart
Starbase Deep Space 9

 

[PKTrekGirl]

But in semantic terms, wouldn't Starfleet hate to call DS9 a "Federation starbase" within Bajoran earshot? And if it became a starbase, wouldn't it automatically rate a flag-rank CO?

Both good questions.

DS9 was a Cardassian station which they abandoned when the Occupation ended. The Federation and Starfleet was invited there by the Bajorans to defend Bajor in case the Cardassians changed their mind, but mainly to oversee Bajor's theoretical entrance into the Federation.

But as of the end of DS9, Bajor had not entered the Federation...and as far as I know, DS9 was 'owned' by the Bajorans and would not become the property of the Federation until such entrance. So even on that count, it seems like to me it couldn't be a Federation starbase. Because although the station was under the control of Starfleet, I was always under the distinct impression that it was still, at the end of things, Bajor's station - left to them by the Cardassians when they cut their losses and abandoned the Occupation of Bajor.

As for the commander issue..of course Sisko was only a Commander at the beginning of the show. DS9 was at that time a remote outpost in the 'wilderness' - in the beginning, there wasn't anything about it that suggested that it was critical to Federation or Starfleet operations as a whole. It was just a place for Starfleet to set up shop while they oversaw Bajor's entrance into the Federation.

When I think of a starbase, I think of a large center that is critical to supply lines, defense (which granted, it later became - but not until 4 seasons into the show!), etc, and that is actually owned by Starfleet. I think of a place that can support all kinds of commerce on a grand scale, a large civilian population, facilities for research, training, higher education, etc.

And DS9 was none of those things. And it became only one of those things (a station critical to defense) 4 years into the show.

So I don't care what came out of the actors mouths a handful of times. I'll put it down to a mistake in scripting or line-reading that was not large enough to warrant re-shooting a scene. It's like calling your town a 'city' in conversation, when really your town is not a city, but a 'town'. You can CALL it a '"Henry". What it IS is a 'town'.

 

[C.E. Evans]

Officially, though, it was still referred to as "Starbase Deep Space 9" though, twice by its commanding officer even. Can't dismiss that as a mistake, but maybe as a personal preference...

It seems that despite what we may personally think a starbase should be, though, it seems to have been used generically onscreen to describe any spaceport/base of operations used by the Federation or Starfleet, regardless of size, mission, or location. "Deep Space stations" could be starbases originally established in non-Federation territory with the permission or cooperation of another government, or "Deep Space [INSERT LETTERS OR NUMBERS HERE]" could be just another way of naming starbases other than by numbers alone.

Deep Space 9 could be looked at as a Federation starbase operating with permission of the Bajoran government in their territory, or it could be looked at as a Bajoran-owned space station administered by the Federation, IMO...

 

[PKTrekGirl]

^I'm not saying it was a character's mistake necessarily (ie, Sisko or some other 'commanding officer' reference), although that is a possibility (getting back to the example of referring to your town as a 'city' even though technically it is not, etc). I actually think it much more likely that it was a writer mistake (mis-identification in the script) or an actor mistake in saying his lines.

Just because the ACTOR who played, for example, Admiral Ross, said it doesn't make it any more true than if Cirroc Lofton said it. An actor is an actor - the fact that one plays an admiral and the other plays a kid doesn't make the the guy who plays the admiral any less likely to misread his lines.

But no matter. I don't even believe that DS9 is a Federation-owned station. I believe it to be owned by the Bajorans, and as such, can't be a Federation starbase. Regardless of what some actor read (or misread) off a script.

And no...I don't care about canon this and canon that. Not with regard to something as utterly nitpicky as this issue is.

In fact, I can't even believe I've spent THIS much time on it. Because at the end of the day, it doesn't even matter to the story in the slightest.

Maybe in Trek Tech you guys like to speculate endlessly about this sort of thing...but to me, a topic like this is so nitpicky as to be almost ridiculous to talk about past a brief discussion. Which is exactly the reason why, in 9.5 years on this board, I can count on about 2 fingers the number of times I've even posted in that forum.

What can I say? I'm a girl. I honestly don't care about classes of imaginary star ships, space station vs. starbase, and the color of the transporter beams. I'm just here for the story.

 

[C.E. Evans]

Riiight...

 

[Saquist]

Technically speaking, i'm sure DS9 is not a starbase. Otherwise they would have named it starbase [whatever] instead of deep space nine when they were renaming it from terkoknor (dunno how to spell it). Amirite?

I think it's more of a multi-purpose outpost since it serves as a "pit-stop" sort of services for all sorts of races and is not limited to starfleet vessels.

Not to mention that it is shared by starfleet and the bajoran military.

I think i would call it a "marketplace" or "starfleet embassy" before i called it a starbase.

That's the biggest reason its not Starbase...it's duel ownership.

 

[Boris Skrbic]

No need to overthink this. There are regular starbases with mere numbers or other kinds of short designations, and then there are faraway starbases which bear the special designation "Deep Space". While I can't abbreviate Starbase 174 to 174, I can abbreviate Starbase Deep Space 9 to Deep Space 9, since everyone in the room would understand that a Deep Space facility is a type of starbase.

 

[Smellincoffee]

When I think of starbase, I think of those great big stations we see in orbit of Earth, or during the Dominion War -- places where flag officers coordinate Starfleet activity in a given sector.

I think of DS9 as more an outpost. It's being maintained by Starfleet, but only in conjunction with the people who own it -- until the Dominion War, there's no 'Starfleet activity' to monitor aside from the runabouts and Defiant. I think the DS9 of the Dominion War COULD be considered a base of sorts, given its position in the front lines and the presence of so many ships.

 

[timelord1010]

My guess is a starbase is within Federation space while a deep space outpost in outside of Federation space.
I would think that once Bajor joins the Federation starfleet will build one of those giant space stations to dock starships at and change Deep Space Nine to Starbase 209 or whatever number starbase it would be.