Trelane from TOS and Q from TNG

[Keith1701]

I was watching getting ready for "Star Trek Into Darkness" by watching the DVD's from Star Trek Enterprise and then onto Star Trek TOS. I was able to get more than mid way in Season 2 of TOS before the movie was released last May 15, 2013.

Anyway, after watching TOS episode 119 "The Squire of Gothos", it suddening came to me that Trelane and Q had much of the same type powers. I was wondering doing of the others fans on TREK BBS feel the same?? Please let me know?

 

[marsomthing]

I always thought the same thing, the one thing that would suggest he is not a Q entity is the machine behind the mirror in the episode. To me all other signs point to Q his powers and playful attitude toward humans.

I think that they are very closely related tho, people on this thread will be able to giveaway better answer.

 

[Greg Cox]

There's actually a novel about this, Q-Squared by Peter David.

 

[TheSubCommander]

No, I think Trelane was not a Q. An alien similar to a Q, maybe, but here are the inconsistencies:

First, Trelane believed he was representing himself as how humans are, an 18th century retired general and squire, but was almost 500 years off. A Q wouldn't have made that mistake.

Second, Qs have no need of machinery to augment their powers, as Trelane did.

Third, Trelane never seemed omnipotent and lacked the intelligence of Q.

Fourth, all Q's refer to themselves and other Qs, as "Q."

Also,Trelane's parents appeared as glowing green orbs, while Qs usually take humanoid form. While a Q could theoretically appear in any form, they would have had the tendency to take a form that "humans could understand," as Q often would say. One example is Q and the Gray, where the Q Civil War took the form of the American Civil War, so humans could understand what was going on. had Trelane's parents been Qs, I think they would have appeared as humanoid to Kirk.

I think that while the Peter David novel suggests Trelane was a Q, I think it is more likely to say that Roddenberry was channeling some of what he had previously written before (IE Trelane, Gary Mitchell, etc), when he came up with the Q character.

 

[Keith1701]

No, I think Trelane was not a Q. An alien similar to a Q, maybe, but here are the inconsistencies:

First, Trelane believed he was representing himself as how humans are, an 18th century retired general and squire, but was almost 500 years off. A Q wouldn't have made that mistake.

Second, Qs have no need of machinery to augment their powers, as Trelane did.

Third, Trelane never seemed omnipotent and lacked the intelligence of Q.

Fourth, all Q's refer to themselves and other Qs, as "Q."

Also,Trelane's parents appeared as glowing green orbs, while Qs usually take humanoid form. While a Q could theoretically appear in any form, they would have had the tendency to take a form that "humans could understand," as Q often would say. One example is Q and the Gray, where the Q Civil War took the form of the American Civil War, so humans could understand what was going on. had Trelane's parents been Qs, I think they would have appeared as humanoid to Kirk.

I think that while the Peter David novel suggests Trelane was a Q, I think it is more likely to say that Roddenberry was channeling some of what he had previously written before (IE Trelane, Gary Mitchell, etc), when he came up with the Q character.

Thanks, for clearing this up for me.....

 

[TheSubCommander]

You are welcome, but that is only my opinion

Some people who take the novels as canon, would definitely disagree with me.

 

[Praetor Baldric]

Might Trelane have been a Q in childhood, or do Q's not experience that?

 

[Keith1701]

Might Trelane have been a Q in childhood, or do Q's not experience that?

That might a good answer as well.

 

[Lance]

I don't think he's a Q. But I do think he obviously belongs to a race that is on a similar plane of existence to them. The thing is, TOS is full of these kinds of omnipotent God-like aliens. They seemed to discover a new one every other week. It's odd that by the time TNG rolled around everybody treated the Q Continuum like it was unique...

 

[Zameaze]

....The thing is, TOS is full of these kinds of omnipotent God-like aliens. They seemed to discover a new one every other week. It's odd that by the time TNG rolled around everybody treated the Q Continuum like it was unique...

There actually were not that many on TOS: Apollo from "Who Mourns for Adonais?" and Trelane from "The Squire of Gothos."

You might add Gary Mitchell from "Where No Man Has Gone Before," but he was not an alien. You could add Gorgan from "And the Children Shall Lead" as an undeveloped character and maybe even the Beta XII-A entity from "Day of the Dove" if you are stretching it, but that's about it. I wish there had been more--some great episodes there.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Q was a blatant recycling of Trelane because Gene Roddenberry needed a subplot to pad out "Encounter at Farpoint". It's like they were already out of ideas, and they hadn't started yet.

 

[JoeZhang]

No, I think Trelane was not a Q. An alien similar to a Q, maybe, but here are the inconsistencies:

First, Trelane believed he was representing himself as how humans are, an 18th century retired general and squire, but was almost 500 years off. A Q wouldn't have made that mistake.

Eh? Do you remember the first time we saw Q?

 

[nightwind1]

....The thing is, TOS is full of these kinds of omnipotent God-like aliens. They seemed to discover a new one every other week. It's odd that by the time TNG rolled around everybody treated the Q Continuum like it was unique...

There actually were not that many on TOS: Apollo from "Who Mourns for Adonais?" and Trelane from "The Squire of Gothos."

You might add Gary Mitchell from "Where No Man Has Gone Before," but he was not an alien. You could add Gorgan from "And the Children Shall Lead" as an undeveloped character and maybe even the Beta XII-A entity from "Day of the Dove" if you are stretching it, but that's about it. I wish there had been more--some great episodes there.

Charlie Evan's "parents"
The Metrons
Arguably, Yarnek
The Organians

 

[Greg Cox]

....The thing is, TOS is full of these kinds of omnipotent God-like aliens. They seemed to discover a new one every other week. It's odd that by the time TNG rolled around everybody treated the Q Continuum like it was unique...

There actually were not that many on TOS: Apollo from "Who Mourns for Adonais?" and Trelane from "The Squire of Gothos."

You might add Gary Mitchell from "Where No Man Has Gone Before," but he was not an alien. You could add Gorgan from "And the Children Shall Lead" as an undeveloped character and maybe even the Beta XII-A entity from "Day of the Dove" if you are stretching it, but that's about it. I wish there had been more--some great episodes there.

Well, there's also the Metron in "Arena" and the Thasians in "Charlie X" and, of course, the Organians. The TOS universe is full of transcendent, god-like beings who are far more evolved than us mere corporeal entities . . .

 

[marsomthing]

....The thing is, TOS is full of these kinds of omnipotent God-like aliens. They seemed to discover a new one every other week. It's odd that by the time TNG rolled around everybody treated the Q Continuum like it was unique...

There actually were not that many on TOS: Apollo from "Who Mourns for Adonais?" and Trelane from "The Squire of Gothos."

You might add Gary Mitchell from "Where No Man Has Gone Before," but he was not an alien. You could add Gorgan from "And the Children Shall Lead" as an undeveloped character and maybe even the Beta XII-A entity from "Day of the Dove" if you are stretching it, but that's about it. I wish there had been more--some great episodes there.

Was the Apollo thing ever explored more in depth? I know he too had a machine to enhance powers, but he claimed to have been a god of humans... So that rules out trelane like character..... Right?

 

[Zameaze]

....The thing is, TOS is full of these kinds of omnipotent God-like aliens. They seemed to discover a new one every other week. It's odd that by the time TNG rolled around everybody treated the Q Continuum like it was unique...

There actually were not that many on TOS: Apollo from "Who Mourns for Adonais?" and Trelane from "The Squire of Gothos."

You might add Gary Mitchell from "Where No Man Has Gone Before," but he was not an alien. You could add Gorgan from "And the Children Shall Lead" as an undeveloped character and maybe even the Beta XII-A entity from "Day of the Dove" if you are stretching it, but that's about it. I wish there had been more--some great episodes there.

Charlie Evan's "parents"
The Metrons
Arguably, Yarnek
The Organians

None of which was the protagonist of their story.

 

[Zameaze]

....The thing is, TOS is full of these kinds of omnipotent God-like aliens. They seemed to discover a new one every other week. It's odd that by the time TNG rolled around everybody treated the Q Continuum like it was unique...

There actually were not that many on TOS: Apollo from "Who Mourns for Adonais?" and Trelane from "The Squire of Gothos."

You might add Gary Mitchell from "Where No Man Has Gone Before," but he was not an alien. You could add Gorgan from "And the Children Shall Lead" as an undeveloped character and maybe even the Beta XII-A entity from "Day of the Dove" if you are stretching it, but that's about it. I wish there had been more--some great episodes there.

Was the Apollo thing ever explored more in depth? I know he too had a machine to enhance powers, but he claimed to have been a god of humans... So that rules out trelane like character..... Right?

Good point. Apollo did become a giant again after the machine in his temple was destroyed.

 

[Lance]

....The thing is, TOS is full of these kinds of omnipotent God-like aliens. They seemed to discover a new one every other week. It's odd that by the time TNG rolled around everybody treated the Q Continuum like it was unique...

There actually were not that many on TOS: Apollo from "Who Mourns for Adonais?" and Trelane from "The Squire of Gothos."

You might add Gary Mitchell from "Where No Man Has Gone Before," but he was not an alien. You could add Gorgan from "And the Children Shall Lead" as an undeveloped character and maybe even the Beta XII-A entity from "Day of the Dove" if you are stretching it, but that's about it. I wish there had been more--some great episodes there.

There were also the antagonists from "Plato's Stepchildren" as well. At a stretch.

 

[Shawnster]

There actually were not that many on TOS: Apollo from "Who Mourns for Adonais?" and Trelane from "The Squire of Gothos."

You might add Gary Mitchell from "Where No Man Has Gone Before," but he was not an alien. You could add Gorgan from "And the Children Shall Lead" as an undeveloped character and maybe even the Beta XII-A entity from "Day of the Dove" if you are stretching it, but that's about it. I wish there had been more--some great episodes there.

Charlie Evan's "parents"
The Metrons
Arguably, Yarnek
The Organians

None of which was the protagonist of their story.

So what? The point isn't which powerful beings were protagonists of their story. That's irrelevant. We're discussing TOS beings that are similar to Q.

So far we are up to nine

Trelane Squire of Gothos
Apollo Who Mourns for Adonis?
Gary Mitchel Where No Man has Gone Before
Gorgan And the Children Shall Lead
Beta XII-A Entity Day of the Dove
Charlie Evan's 'Parents' Charlie-X
The Metrons Arena
Yarnek The Savage Curtain
Organians Errand of Mercy

And I'll add some more:

Melkotians Specter of the Gun Advanced telepathic race with powers of illusion (Again, another stretch)
Sargon's People Return to Tomorrow Advanced non-corporeal beings able to possess or inhabit another being. (No other powers, though. Another stretch)
Medusans Is There in Truth No Beauty? yet another non-corporeal telepathic race.


So, if we're really going to stretch on some of these, we're up to 12 Advanced telepathic or non-corporeal (or both) species with powers similar to that of Trelane or Q. While not exactly the same, there are enough similarities to imply they aren't all that unique.

And this is just TOS. I wonder how many non-corporeal or telepathic (or both) advanced beings there were in the subsequent series (Nagilum comes to mind).

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

We're discussing TOS beings that are similar to Q.

So far we are up to nine

Trelane Squire of Gothos
Apollo Who Mourns for Adonis?
Gary Mitchel Where No Man has Gone Before
Gorgan And the Children Shall Lead
Beta XII-A Entity Day of the Dove
Charlie Evan's 'Parents' Charlie-X
The Metrons Arena
Yarnek The Savage Curtain
Organians Errand of Mercy

And I'll add some more:

Melkotians Specter of the Gun Advanced telepathic race with powers of illusion (Again, another stretch)
Sargon's People Return to Tomorrow Advanced non-corporeal beings able to possess or inhabit another being. (No other powers, though. Another stretch)
Medusans Is There in Truth No Beauty? yet another non-corporeal telepathic race.


So, if we're really going to stretch on some of these, we're up to 12 Advanced telepathic or non-corporeal (or both) species with powers similar to that of Trelane or Q. While not exactly the same, there are enough similarities to imply they aren't all that unique.

I think the big strech additions discussed in the thread are any who required outside influence to gain power--in other words, it was not an inherent ability of their species:

Trelane - he needed a machine to support any of his powers. His parents' ability did not seem God-like.

Mitchell / Dehner: they were born normal human beings transformed by the Galactic Barrier.

Charles Evans: On the surface, the power to turn thought into action or physical reality appears God-like, but we have to remember he was limited, since he did not have the power to bring Janice back, or reverse most of his actions (Uhura's voice and the pain dealt to Kirk & Spock being exceptions).