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Transcendence trailers, Singularity movie w/ Johnny Depp & M. Freeman

Re: Transcendence trailers, Singularity movie w/ Johnny Depp & M. Free

Ahh, so everyone who simply disagrees with your gushing approval of this mediocre movie is "just wrong". Without explanation.

Okay then. :lol:
 
Re: Transcendence trailers, Singularity movie w/ Johnny Depp & M. Free

Chemahkuu said:
Ahh, so everyone who simply disagrees with your gushing approval of this mediocre movie is "just wrong". Without explanation.

Okay then. :lol:
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I dont understand what you're saying?? What do you mean without explanation? Im assuming you can read.

I've just looked in on some Singularity groups I go to before coming here, and the general feeling is surprise. While some people werent fans of it to the extent I was, the feeling is that the subject was treated fairly. The movie may not be a masterpiece, but yes the critics are wrong. Just the day before I saw it I mentioned I was ready for it to be anti-technology, and Hollywood business as usual. At best I was expecting an enertaining thriller, it simply turned out to be more than that.
 
Re: Transcendence trailers, Singularity movie w/ Johnny Depp & M. Free

So I actually have time for a longer look at this movie now, and also had time to look at some reaction to the movie.

As I've mentioned before I look at reviews as 1/3rd of the reaction to movie, but I don't really use them for my own personal use. I have a pretty good gauge for what I think I'll like and what I won't. I'm not really surprised at the poor reception, but I'm surprised at WHAT the critics are talking about. I've seen three separate genre sites calling the movie "anti-technological" as well as two well-known media reviewers, one on Ebert.com comparing it to Frankenstein, which about as far from the truth as you can get. References are made to "sinister secrets" in the rain..again totally ignoring the ending of the movie. The reviewer has the gall to be sarcastic that an "omnipotent computer" with a human personality could possibly be a good thing..we can see where the viewpoint is precariously leading from here. The movie did consult with futurists and experts, and here at least, they got things right. This movie has a few similarities but is really nothing like Lawnmower man, and oft-mentioned movie that is anti-technological.

So what's wrong with the movie? Some minor things. There aren't many plots holes or leaps in logic, but a few can be debated. One thing I immediately wondered is why did they establish the AI "lab" away from the already existing PINN? Was it oversight? Budget? Because it was personal use? I felt like they could have set up the mind uploading lab in secret in their own quantum computer lab. This isn't really a major quibble.

The worst thing that a very benign Will does in the movie is use human beings as networked workers, seemingly akin to the Borg. There are some hints however that the workers are grateful and would be doing the work anyway. The networking to Will is knowledge and they can act as one with instant communication, which is a parallel to control but didn't necessarily seem like to control to me. Even so, it was one of the most disturbing things about Will, who turned out to be benevolent. No one in the military or RIFT is killed.

"The movie is muddled and not direct in it's themes." Wrong, it actually explores different aspects of reactions to events, from Luddite, to Expert opinion being changed, to acceptance. It knows where it wants to go, and keeps the audience guessing till the end. Only briefly do we think it's headed to Skynet. Some small hints are left us to tell it's Will, including his experiments on plants in the lab, and the obvious care over Evelyn (despite simultaneously monitoring her--which seems normal to me since that's his way of interacting/reading the outside world).

The idea of a virus uploading through a human being. I saw this on a Singularity site. If you posit being able to upload a mind and retain it's humanity, then I feel uploading a virus from a brain is child's play.

The timeline: There is a basic timeline out there for many of these technologies and when they are predicted to come about. These are based on mathematics. Will comes about "early". The Singularity is likely 30+ years away. Let's assume it happens when it does in the movie, the level of nanotechnology exhibited is of course, exponential , and it parallels the Singularity but most likely wouldn't be available yet either.

Biblical allusions. This is for the uninitiated. It resonates as well as offends with the average person. Generally, because the implications of the science is so all-encompassing and staggering, human beings have terrible definitions and analogies for it. We have "zombies" resurrected from the "dead" (or almost, nearly dead:)). Will is obviously a "god" now. Now of course in any "community" or interest group there will be different factions, some are interested directly in religious allusion. I don't think most are, and I'm not one of them either. Ultimately the movie should not be considered a road map for a possible new religion.

Someone negatively compared it to Her: As I said, as pure drama Her might be your movie, but transcendence has some decent drama and much more comprehensively deals with a Singularity, not just one aspect of it.

------------------------------------

Implications/Speculations:

Will operates faster than even Evelyn or Max can contemplate. His plans are only revealed to the audience over time. He likely doesn't think in linear fashion. I wouldn't have been surprised, if this "God" as some people put it, would have been quickly inclined to upload humanity. Something that wouldn't just "fix" the Earth, but potentially enlighten humanity.

The Earth is "fixed" at the end. We can start from scratch basically. If Will hadn't been destroyed, what would we have seen? A positive utopia?

Now that it IS non-computerized, what will humanity do? Well, firstly there will be places that weren't networked or connected to Will. PINN is turned off for example. It's a ready made quantum computer. Humanity is not quite to the stone age. There is no EMP damage, existing equipment would work. There will be recovery efforts underway. If humanity is smart, they will initiate a rapid program to upload others, and to use the AI to turn on systems all over the world.

The ending is interesting. The nanotech is not affected by the Max Virus. Suggesting Will could make it immune or non-connected! There is the suggestion Evelyn and Will might be there somehow, maybe in "essence"(code). This leaves things open for a sequel(no doubt not forthcoming because of the BO).

So as of right now, my best 15 SF movies of the 2010s so far:

2010s:

1. Transcendence(2014)
2. Inception(2010)
3. Pacific Rim(2013)
4. Star Trek:Into Darkness(2013)
5. Europa Report(2013)
6. Her(2013)
7. Man of Steel(2013)
8. Oblivion(2013)
9. Gravity(2013)
10. The Adjustment Bureau(2011)
11. Tron:Legacy(2010)
12. The Avengers(2012)
13. Rise of the Planet of the Apes(2011)
14. Source Code(2011)
15. Robocop(2014)

Finally, about one of the two staggeringly good links I put up last night: The Between Ape and Artilect is available as a FREE PDF!! Credit to David Brin for pointing out this fantastic collection:

http://humanityplus.org/projects/press/ape/

During 2010-12, Dr. Goertzel conducted a series of textual interviews with researchers in various areas of cutting-edge science — artificial general intelligence, nanotechnology, life extension, neurotechnology, collective intelligence, mind uploading, body modification, neuro-spiritual transformation, and more. These interviews were published online in H+ Magazine, and are here gathered together in a single volume. The resulting series of dialogues treats a variety of social, futurological and scientific topics in a way that is accessible to the educated non-scientist, yet also deep and honest to the subtleties of the topics being discussed.

Between Ape and Artilect is a must-read if you want the real views, opinions, ideas, muses and arguments of the people creating our future.
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Professor Nick Bostrom at the University of Oxford discusses the technical feasibility of whole brain emulation. Bostrom is the director of Oxford's Future of Humanity Institute and the Oxford

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86st7_Lzs2s

His book: http://www.amazon.com/Superintelligence-Dangers-Strategies-Nick-Bostrom/dp/0199678111

For those interested in the reality of the possibility of when machine intelligence will reach human level..instead of playing with pink ponies, here is expert Nick Bostom again:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aheywElK_U8


RAMA

RAMA said:
I still don't have time for a long review so I''ll summarize. There are spoilers if you haven't seen it:

The movie is quite a surprise. The negative reviews are of course, wrong. Far from being the Skynet derived mass media Luddite scare-fest, the movie presented a fairly balanced view of several possibilities.

In terms of the drama, I saw one Singularity proponent's review compare it to Her...and while you could argue perhaps that it's not as good of a pure drama, it actually does a better job giving a more comprehensive view of implications of a "Singularity"(I'm starting to think we need a better term than this).

The movie starts out as a thoughtful drama, establishes the dedication of the researchers and the relationship between Will Caster and Evelyn. Then there's an assassination attempt, and simultaneous attack on AI labs by a terrorist group. Will is wounded, but survives, only to discover he is dying from radiation poisoning from the bullet used in the attack. He's resigned to his death, but his wife and friend Max to a lesser extent, decide to set up an on-the-fly AI lab and carry on with his chimp mind uploading work utilizing the latest quantum computers. Eventually they succeed. As the terrorists attack again, he manages to upload himself to the net, making himself safe from a direct attack. Max is captured and eventually works with the terrorist group RIFT.

Evelyn is supplied with unlimited funds through stock market manipulation and other means. Will's computerized mind is operating at exponential speed, simultaneously assessing his needs and future. They arrive in a small town that meet's his needs: it is a desert town, with plenty of sun for a gigantic solar farm he wants to build. Workers are hired as the town is purchased.

He makes Evelyn comfortable and starts to accelerate wondrous technologies, regrowing plants, fixing injuries, mostly through nano-technological means. As time passes, Evelyn becomes less comfortable with the non-physical Will. One of the workers is mugged for money, and is fixed in minutes. He is later caught by a boy on video who is working for the terrorists lifting heavy objects. As Will apparently "allows" the video on the net, people flock to be healed, and Will decides it's time to show the world what they are doing.

The government comes to "inspect". Tagger, a researcher who is also working for the government, and a friend to Evelyn (Morgan freeman) is unsettled and slips Evelyn a note she should run from the place. The government decides to work with the terrorists because of the scary technology in the lab, and also because the healed people are networked and constitute an "army".

Eventually, they attack the complex. The workers are wounded as they defend it, but nanotech assemblers spring up from the ground to heal the workers. One worker is trapped in a tunnel, and cut off from Will's signals, he will be used by Max, who worked on the software in creating Will to spread a virus when he is networked again. However he dies from his injuries.

Evelyn grows more uncomfortable. Will is monitoring her and eventually she leaves the complex after he offers to upload her to make her safe. The government and RIFT with the help of Max convince her the AI is not really Will but the PINN computer they original worked with and that he has used nanotech to seed rain clouds all over the world that will eventually turn the whole world into Will's improved version of humanity networked by AI. She agrees to deliver the Virus, but Will will only trust her, and as the virus will destroy anything Will has "infected" all over the world she will likely die too if she uploads herself.

There are attack forces waiting at the edge of the city. Evelyn goes in alone and to her surprise, Will, now recreated by nanotech into his original body, throws off the plan. She hesitates but then asks to be brought inside and uploaded for protection. Will knows something is wrong but then they are attacked in an effort to speed the process. Will has already surmised she is there to destroy him. Evelyn is injured. As power fades in the complex, his networked, healed humans defend him but surprisingly kill no one as they attack. There is not enough power to heal Evelyn and avert the attack at the same time, Will heals Evelyn. She immediately realizes its not a rogue program, but Will himslef, who was never as interested in changing the world just understanding it, Evelyn was the visionary. He had killed no one in the process, and the seeding across the world based on his lab experiments, were to HEAL the world as she had stated in a TED-like gathering earlier in the movie. Pollution would be gone, the environment healed. MAx and the others were wrong, the real Will was beneficial to the world, but then as the virus penetrates, they die.

The world is without most computer aided technology. But as Max wanders, he sees the nanotech still doing it's work, and maybe a part of Evelyn and Will still resides in it.

____________


Needless to say, the movie seemed to take a darker turn where the audience questions the beneficial nature of Will, but there is a brilliant ending. Yes, mankind is made of of terrorists, Luddites and the simply scared not open to the possibilities but also those who genuinely care about the world enough to fix it, and use their knowledge and technology to do so.

This turned out to be a really great movie, somewhat sad because of humanity and it's paranoid nature. My wife was upset by the ending because they killed Will and Evelyn, but I was uplifted by the ending.

How refreshing to see Hollywood put out a thoughtful movie that doesn't pander to the us-against-them terminator shoot-them-up nature. This is but the f irst of many movies that will explore these themes in the future, and it's a good start so far.

9.5/10 rating

RAMA
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Re: Transcendence trailers, Singularity movie w/ Johnny Depp & M. Free

Whether Transcendence is a good or bad film I guess is a matter of taste. One thing is certain is Johnny Depp is quickly becoming box office poision. This will be his second film in ~ 1 year to likely lose a shit load of money. The movie going public was less than enthusiastic this past weekend for this film.

Showbiz411

Johnny Depp’s “Transcendence” bombed last night as expected, taking in just $11.5 million. That’s a disaster for a $150 million movie.
This is Depp’s second major flop at the box office, following the catastrophic “Lone Ranger.” And now this poses an important question: can Depp open a movie that isn’t “Pirates of the Caribbean”? The answer is No. He’s made zillions from the Disney adventure movies.
But Depp has so limited himself as Jack Sparrow that he’s not known for anything else. His last real movie that was a hit and brought him some critical acclaim was “Finding Neverland” some ten years ago.
Other than that his resume is a list of “almosts”– “Public Enemies” and “Sweeney Todd” fit that bill. His work with Tim Burton is spotty– “Alice in Wonderland” was a big hit, but not just because of Depp. “Dark Shadows” was awful.
He (and Leonardo DiCaprio) are among a small group of very precious leading men who don’t do romantic comedies. When he did try to do something in that vein, Depp failed miserably with “The Tourist.”
Depp’s other big outing this year will be in the fall when he plays the Wolf in Rob Marshall’s “Into the Woods” musical film adaptation. The next time Depp is seen after that will be in 2015 as mobster Whitey Bulger in “Black Mass.”
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Re: Transcendence trailers, Singularity movie w/ Johnny Depp & M. Free

The Lone Ranger didn't bomb because of Johnny Depp, it bombed because it was a terrible movie and looked like it from the outset. And that's a pretty poorly written article as well. Anytime he has a success they say it didn't count because it wasn't a "real movie" or because he wasn't the draw. It's pretty clear that they had a preferred narrative about him being box office poison as you said, and made an article based around that premise for clickbait.
 
Re: Transcendence trailers, Singularity movie w/ Johnny Depp & M. Free

Mr. Laser Beam said:
RAMA said:
Humanity is not quite to the stone age. There is no EMP damage, existing equipment would work.
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Then why is there no power?
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It's not completely clear in the movie, but I surmise this:

Technology is a chain, everything relies on computers these days (that's the supposition by most anyway, we are not quite there yet). Cutting computers out of the equation with a virus affects everything else down the line. The difficulty in getting society going again is this chain of technology. Even the power plants would need time to get running properly again. It is fixable, but time-consuming.

Ironically, though the movie is not anti-technology, you might say the story has taught the anti-technological a lesson.

RAMA
 
Re: Transcendence trailers, Singularity movie w/ Johnny Depp & M. Free

Shocking..saw another review claiming the movie was anti-technological..iO9 this time. It was titled something like: "When is a cautionary tale not anti-technology". It's not worth looking up.
 
Re: Transcendence trailers, Singularity movie w/ Johnny Depp & M. Free

RAMA said:
Technology is a chain, everything relies on computers these days (that's the supposition by most anyway, we are not quite there yet). Cutting computers out of the equation with a virus affects everything else down the line. The difficulty in getting society going again is this chain of technology. Even the power plants would need time to get running properly again. It is fixable, but time-consuming.
Click to expand...

But, the hysteria aside, it's not like our power plants are connected to the Internet 24/7 (if indeed they are connected AT ALL). There's a lot of hype over what hackers could do to them, but logically speaking, hackers can't affect anything that isn't online in the first place.

Unless this takes place in some weird alternate universe where all power plants ARE internet-connected (which would be a pretty bad idea, really), then I don't see how a virus could affect them.
 
Re: Transcendence trailers, Singularity movie w/ Johnny Depp & M. Free

Um, Mr. Laser Beam, didn't you ever see the documentary Live Free or Die Hard?
 
Re: Transcendence trailers, Singularity movie w/ Johnny Depp & M. Free

I love how the whole point of the gas stations was that someone needed to physically be there to do everything as they couldn't be hacked.

Then when John fucks up thier plans, they hack them. Turns out they had remote access after all, umm...what?

Gas lines need broadband apparently. :lol:
 
Re: Transcendence trailers, Singularity movie w/ Johnny Depp & M. Free

I interned at an electrical utility that manage nuclear power plants and no important equipment is connected to the internet. In fact many of the equipment is pre-digital.

Of course there is Stuxnet.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuxnet
(Don't understand why Iran was so vulnerable unless they were using off the shelf parts for their uranium enrichment project)
 
Re: Transcendence trailers, Singularity movie w/ Johnny Depp & M. Free

Mr. Laser Beam said:
RAMA said:
Technology is a chain, everything relies on computers these days (that's the supposition by most anyway, we are not quite there yet). Cutting computers out of the equation with a virus affects everything else down the line. The difficulty in getting society going again is this chain of technology. Even the power plants would need time to get running properly again. It is fixable, but time-consuming.
Click to expand...

But, the hysteria aside, it's not like our power plants are connected to the Internet 24/7 (if indeed they are connected AT ALL). There's a lot of hype over what hackers could do to them, but logically speaking, hackers can't affect anything that isn't online in the first place.

Unless this takes place in some weird alternate universe where all power plants ARE internet-connected (which would be a pretty bad idea, really), then I don't see how a virus could affect them.
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Like I said, this is supposition by most. I recently saw a statistical analysis that showed what percentage of things that could be connected by the internet were actually connected. That percentage was 45%. However this will change radically in 15 years, almost doubling. The other question is, what else are these power plants and grids connected to that ARE connected that might be affected. Worth some research perhaps.

It took just a few minutes to find this Wired article about power plant vulnerability:
www.wired.com/2013/11/internet-exposed/
 
Re: Transcendence trailers, Singularity movie w/ Johnny Depp & M. Free

Another interesting tidbit:

Someone on a Singularity group described an impromtu survey he took in a movie theater that lost power with 20 minutes left in the movie. Out of 30 or so people, NO ONE had heard of The Singularity, Ray Kurzweil, or the fact that he works at Google. People were undecided about the movie because they didn't know who the BAD GUY was...who to root for! He liked it for exactly that reason!

This is utterly perfect. It'll fail as an entertainment I suppose because audiences don't click with it, but it did EXACTLY the right thing. Audiences should be thinking and questioning, and that's exactly what they are no longer used to in movies that spell their position (if they have one at all) out. They are TOLD they should be uncomfortable about robots and AI, and other movies reinforce it, but this one didn't!

I'm thinking I may have to raise my rating from 9.5 out of 10 to 10/10!

Another great link: http://www.eupedia.com/science/what_the_future_will_look_like.shtml

RAMA
 
Re: Transcendence trailers, Singularity movie w/ Johnny Depp & M. Free

I just got back from the movie. I enjoyed it, the third act has a few problems. I was a little concerned that the movie can't really decide on a villain. Is it the Johnny Depp A.I. or the RIFT combined with the military? It sort of hints that the A.I. was really only trying to repair the world and the networked workers really weren't slaves, but it could have been explained better. While RIFT and the military were directly responsible for every single death onscreen and ended up crippling the planet. I did find it silly to have nanobots flipping trucks and holding people down.

I did enjoy the ending though.
 
Re: Transcendence trailers, Singularity movie w/ Johnny Depp & M. Free

Awesome Possum said:
I just got back from the movie. I enjoyed it, the third act has a few problems. I was a little concerned that the movie can't really decide on a villain. Is it the Johnny Depp A.I. or the RIFT combined with the military? It sort of hints that the A.I. was really only trying to repair the world and the networked workers really weren't slaves, but it could have been explained better. While RIFT and the military were directly responsible for every single death onscreen and ended up crippling the planet. I did find it silly to have nanobots flipping trucks and holding people down.

I did enjoy the ending though.
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There is no villain, there doesnt have to be one. There are the more enlightened, and the less.

They explained it at the end...you werent supposed to know for sure before that.

Its not really silly, nanobot swarms are simply formless nanoclouds/foglets.
 
Re: Transcendence trailers, Singularity movie w/ Johnny Depp & M. Free

When was the last time you saw a cloud flip a truck or hold someone down?
 
Re: Transcendence trailers, Singularity movie w/ Johnny Depp & M. Free

RAMA said:
Awesome Possum said:
I just got back from the movie. I enjoyed it, the third act has a few problems. I was a little concerned that the movie can't really decide on a villain. Is it the Johnny Depp A.I. or the RIFT combined with the military? It sort of hints that the A.I. was really only trying to repair the world and the networked workers really weren't slaves, but it could have been explained better. While RIFT and the military were directly responsible for every single death onscreen and ended up crippling the planet. I did find it silly to have nanobots flipping trucks and holding people down.

I did enjoy the ending though.
Click to expand...

There is no villain, there doesnt have to be one. There are the more enlightened, and the less.
Click to expand...
The movie does seem try to play around with audience expectations. The standard trope is that machines want to take over and if a human were to upload they would lose their humanity. It then plays up RIFT combined with sympathetic characters like Morgan Freeman's and Paul Bettany's characters as trying to stop it from taking up and planting the expectation that Evelyn wasn't seeing the truth of the situation. It's all revealed in the end, but that feels more like a twist. I think it would have been more interesting in having the Will A.I. completely implied to be Will from the start. Maybe focus more on the storyline with him and Evelyn instead of a bunch of neo-unabombers in the woods.

Its not really silly, nanobot swarms are simply formless nanoclouds/foglets.
Click to expand...

I just expected a little more. It could almost instantly repair objects, disassemble machines and regrow organic life.
 
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