TOS Enterprise?

[Cary L. Brown]

I would imagine Star Fleet has some type of "SLEP" (Service Life Extension Program) for their Class One Starships since even in a society "without money", those assets must have some intrinsic value attached to them and it would be wasteful to just send them to the "orbital breakers" after a decade or two of service.

Well, there's a difference between "no currency" and "no money."

It's very clearly established in TOS that the Federation has "credits" and that people get "pay." This is beyond the obvious issues of trying to figure out how a society where there is no such thing as "value" applied to anything could possibly work, of course.

I think of this particular little bit of Trek lore as meaning "they have no hard, physical currency." Not that they don't have "money," only that their "money" exists as numbers in an account, not as bills and coins in their pockets. Basically, it's as if everyone has a credit/debit card and that's all they ever have to use.

I can't see any other way that things could work... NOR can I see any way that you can claim otherwise without saying "well, ignore TOS for the moment."

Assuming that Enterprise was not the only Constitution Class starship to survive, it is conceivable that her update was in and of itself a SLEP-type upgrade, replacing older structures and updating systems and propulsion and was intended to be done on her sisters, as well (I can't remember if it was fandom or back-stage "history" that noted the Lexington was supposed to be upgraded first).

Fandom... definitely fandom. The only even "pseudo-official" bit on this is in Roddenberry's novelization for TMP, and in that one, he describes how the Enterprise is the first ship to get this treatment.

I prefer the fannish explanation (with the Belknap being the production version of the original testbed for the TMP-style technology) but none of it is "canon" at this point.

 

[Chaos Descending]

(sigh) Are you just trying to argue,

Knock THAT shit off with a quickness, and hop right off your high horse.

You're just being argumentative.

And again, stuff the attitude.

(I can just imagine... next you'll claim that when I said the vessel isn't in service, I REALLY REALLY mean that it's being junked out. )

Well thank you, Nostradamus. Can I get next week's lottery numbers too?

Maybe after I get over your rotten attitude, I'll be magnanimous enough to get around to saying, "OK, thanks for clearing it up. I disagree with your initial misleading terminology, but I can see where you're coming from now."

 

[Cary L. Brown]

(sigh) Are you just trying to argue,

Knock THAT shit off with a quickness, and hop right off your high horse.

You're just being argumentative.

And again, stuff the attitude.

(I can just imagine... next you'll claim that when I said the vessel isn't in service, I REALLY REALLY mean that it's being junked out. )

Well thank you, Nostradamus. Can I get next week's lottery numbers too?

Maybe after I get over your rotten attitude, I'll be magnanimous enough to get around to saying, "OK, thanks for clearing it up. I disagree with your initial misleading terminology, but I can see where you're coming from now."

You see, from my perspective, you were the one coming off with "an attitude." And you still are, from my perspective. I said things. If you didn't "get" what I was saying, that's one thing. But to claim that I had said other things, and then to argue with me when I clarified it for you... sorry, but that is argumentative. As far as I can tell, no one else was confused by what I'd said. And honestly, instead of just telling you to "knock THAT shit off" or tell you to "get off your high horse" I explained... TWICE. And the first time, without any annoyance whatsoever. But when I have to explain once, then explain again, the same damned thing... yeah, I got annoyed.

Be honest here... if someone tells you you're wrong, because they say you're saying something you never said... and then when you go out of your way to clarify, and they come back and in a very "snarky" fashion tell you that they don't care what you're saying now, that's not what "you really said" all along... are you telling me you wouldn't be a little bit annoyed?

This is a misunderstanding. That happens all the time. But don't presume that you're the "victim" and I'm somehow "the aggressor" here. Because, from my perspective, you've been pretty damned aggressive, and you're the one who disputed what I said, not vice-versa.

 

[Chaos Descending]

I think you and I see the situation from different perspectives.

I didn't intend to be combative, so accept my apologies if I seemed to be so.

 

[Cary L. Brown]

I think you and I see the situation from different perspectives.

I didn't intend to be combative, so accept my apologies if I seemed to be so.

Accepted... and if I inadvertently offended you, I offer my own apology for that as well.

 

[Chaos Descending]

I think you and I see the situation from different perspectives.

I didn't intend to be combative, so accept my apologies if I seemed to be so.

Accepted... and if I inadvertently offended you, I offer my own apology for that as well.

Here, here! *handshake*

 

[Captain Robert April]

Hmmm....I dunno. I prefer to have only a dozen or so Constitution class ships, and fill up the roster with other, similar starship classes (case in point: the Constellation; subtle differences, much lower registry number, etc.).

 

[Red Ranger]

Regarding the discussion about tactical and security being different aspects under the auspices of different divisions, in TOS it was a bit fuzzier, for the most part. As I recall, in Arena, the Gorn trick Kirk into bringing his tactical people down to Cestus III. They all wore either gold or blue, which of course, is associated with the sciences.

In TNG, I do recall a few instances where officers wore command red but their duties or training were referred to as tactical or strategic. First, there was Tac Officer Chang from ep Coming of Age. While his title isn't explained -- he just administered the Starfleet Academy entrance exams -- you can infer that he's a tactical officer.

Then, Ro Laren receives Advanced Tactical Training from Starfleet but remains a command-track officer.

And, more famously, we see Worf back in command red on Deep Space Nine and in the post of Strategic Operations Officer.

So it appears that even in the 24th century, there is some distinction between security and tactical.

And regarding crew rotations that Cary and Chaos were bandying about, it seemed that there were new crew members rotated on to Enterprise in TOS -- hence crew members like Anne Mulhall and Mira Romaine. And in A Matter of Honor, in the beginning, you see Riker greet several crew members as new transfers to the Enterprise. So given both ships were close enough to visit starbases, such crew rotations are even more common than we realize.

Red Ranger

Red Ranger

 

[Longinus]

So it appears that even in the 24th century, there is some distinction between security and tactical.

So maybe tactical actually wears red in TNG, and Worf only wore gold on E-D as he had dual-position as the head of both departments*? It would make sense, it gives us much greater amount of red wearers, which would fit the screen evidence.

*) I also have a theory why the gold superseded the red in that case. Security is more senior department as it is direct successor of ST:E era armoury department (and it certainly combined both security and tactical), which had red as it's colour, but TOS scheme red, corresponding to TNG gold. So there!

 

[startrekfiero]

I thought I remembered that there was a better more detailed break down that what had been done above and beyond what we had earlier from the model kit and the Franz Joseph stuff?
I will have to try and go back through some of stuff...

 

[Cary L. Brown]

I thought I remembered that there was a better more detailed break down that what had been done above and beyond what we had earlier from the model kit and the Franz Joseph stuff?
I will have to try and go back through some of stuff...

There are many examples of guys, on their own, coming up with lists. Many of which probably have never been seen outside the personal notebooks of whoever came up with it.

The thing is, there's nothing OFFICIAL. The closest thing to "official" remains the FJ stuff, and that's certainly not entirely in-canon anymore (though until the TNG-era started redefining things, it was considered to be so).