Spoilers Titans - DC Universe Series

[CorporalCaptain]

Bleating about how awful the show looks != racist and misogynistic harassment of an actor.

The reason these threads keep getting derailed is that defenders play the race/sex card to defend amateurishness and/or score virtue-points for sport.

Baloney. Take a look at the what @dodge posted upthread. I've provided a link. Those aren't examples of "bleating about how awful she looks." They're "racist and misogynistic harassment of an actor." The people who played the "race/sex card" were the harassers.

https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/titans-dc-universe-series.295069/page-4#post-12555832

 

[dahj]

Titans premiers October 12th, it will air in 12 weekly episodes on the DCU.

No word on international distribution yet.

 

[Morpheus 02]

Baloney. Take a look at the what @dodge posted upthread. I've provided a link. Those aren't examples of "bleating about how awful she looks." They're "racist and misogynistic harassment of an actor." The people who played the "race/sex card" were the harassers.

https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/titans-dc-universe-series.295069/page-4#post-12555832

Is it not possible that BOTH things are happening???... LEGITIMATE criticism of the costume (in my informal Facebook friends poll, manly of African Americans, prostitute/street walker was the overwhelming leading answer when asked what words came to mind when they saw the costume. My wife wanted the photo deleted..she didn't think it looked like a DC SUperhero) mixed with those using it as an opportunity for racism & sexism?

I don't mind being spoiled to hear what Starfire will be like in the actual show....

Have we heard her speak as Starfire yet?

 

[theenglish]

Is it not possible that BOTH things are happening???... LEGITIMATE criticism of the costume (in my informal Facebook friends poll, manly of African Americans, prostitute/street walker was the overwhelming leading answer when asked what words came to mind when they saw the costume. My wife wanted the photo deleted..she didn't think it looked like a DC SUperhero) mixed with those using it as an opportunity for racism & sexism?

I don't mind being spoiled to hear what Starfire will be like in the actual show....

Have we heard her speak as Starfire yet?

I think that this is exactly what is happening. Nobody is complaining about observations being made about the costume--that's the internet. Some have taken offense to the prostitute comparisons and arguments have been made on both sides of that issue--each side with interesting points that do address cultural perceptions and norms. To me, this debate is interesting and within the norms of discussions on this board. People pull apart and analyze small bits of information to death and engage in heated debate.

The other issue is the personal attacks against the actress herself.

As for my part if anyone is interested, my only complaint is that the Starfire's hair looks like a cheap cosplay wig from what we've seen so far. May this is because effects are going to be added, but who knows? Guess we will find out in October.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

As for my part if anyone is interested, my only complaint is that the Starfire's hair looks like a cheap cosplay wig from what we've seen so far. May this is because effects are going to be added, but who knows? Guess we will find out in October.

I agree.

I think a good comparison to any criticisms that are not overty sexist/racist would be to compare the lack of contraversy re Zoe Saldana played Gamora, who was - largely - comic accurate (or indeed her earlier role as Neytiri) to the contraversies surrounding the depiction of Starfire who is shown with the actress' normal skin tone (rather than comic accurate 'orange') and a dodgy wig that makes her look a lot less like Starfire normally looks than she does normally (tho some extensions and/or a bit more volume would help).

As an aside, I find a good barometer for whether someone is being racist/sexist about the situation to be whether they also complain about Beast Boy, who also has a rather half-hearted and cheap look (bright green hair, rather than bright green skin and greenish-black hair, also a dumb "street-style" rather than a proper uniform). If they do, then they are critiquing creative decisions, which is acceptable. If they don't, or claim that it is 'prefectly fine' when challenged, then they could be a racist and/or sexist troll.

 

[Christopher]

As an aside, I find a good barometer for whether someone is being racist/sexist about the situation to be whether they also complain about Beast Boy, who also has a rather half-hearted and cheap look (bright green hair, rather than bright green skin and greenish-black hair, also a dumb "street-style" rather than a proper uniform).

One, Beast Boy is played by a Japanese-American actor (Big Hero 6's Ryan Potter), so I'd expect racists to have a problem with him too. (In racist American circles, it's still common to hate Japanese people for Pearl Harbor and WWII, even though that was over 80 years ago.) Two, judging from the poster, it looks like he does have green skin, at least some of the time. It's possible that they filmed him with normal skin tone and used digital effects to turn him green in the final show, which I think is what Star Trek Discovery did with the Orions who appeared in its first-season finale, or so I saw someone claim once.

As for Starfire, I agree her wig is unappealing, but the good thing about wigs is that they're quite easy to change. Maybe they'll refine her look as the season goes on. And I expect they'll gradually work toward getting her, Gar, and Raven into costumes by season's end.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Is it not possible that BOTH things are happening???... LEGITIMATE criticism of the costume (in my informal Facebook friends poll, manly of African Americans, prostitute/street walker was the overwhelming leading answer when asked what words came to mind when they saw the costume. My wife wanted the photo deleted..she didn't think it looked like a DC SUperhero) mixed with those using it as an opportunity for racism & sexism?

I don't mind being spoiled to hear what Starfire will be like in the actual show....

Have we heard her speak as Starfire yet?

Um. That has nothing to do with what I was responding to and what I was calling "baloney" about. Of course it's possible that both are happening, but that's not what the poster I was responding to was saying. If you follow the conversation back, they were saying that the race card was entering the conversation by way of it getting played against legitimate criticism and that that's how threads like these "keep getting derailed." That position was contrary to reality, and that's what I called "baloney" about. People on the Internet were making flat out unequivocal racist comments. @dodge posted a link to some. This has been happening, as it did to Tran, and that's what people like me are critical of. I stand by my remarks.

 

[dahj]

I still don't see what the big deal is.

 

[theenglish]

That image looks pretty cool. It is possible that the hair we have seen will have effects added when we see the final product, similar perhaps to Beast Boy.

 

[Christopher]

That image looks pretty cool. It is possible that the hair we have seen will have effects added when we see the final product, similar perhaps to Beast Boy.

We already saw that in the trailer a while back. Starfire's eyes and hair glow when she uses her powers, as seen in the poster.

 

[theenglish]

Yes, but the shot was a close up and didn't really give a good overall impression of the look. I don't think we have seen a shot of Starfire not using her powers in live action yet, have we? Also, regarding the coat that everyone is criticizing--I am getting a bit of a Terminator vibe here in that she picks up the first clothes she finds on Earth with the intention of blending in.

 

[Christopher]

I don't think we have seen a shot of Starfire not using her powers in live action yet, have we?

As I recall, the shot in the trailer started out with her looking normal and then engaging her powers. Of course they wouldn't have her eyes and hair lit up 100% of the time, since that would be too expensive.

 

[dahj]

Of course they wouldn't have her eyes and hair lit up 100% of the time, since that would be too expensive.

Or hazardous if they went for practical effects.

 

[theenglish]

As I recall, the shot in the trailer started out with her looking normal and then engaging her powers. Of course they wouldn't have her eyes and hair lit up 100% of the time, since that would be too expensive.

No, but there should be some kind of contact lenses involved at least. Her hair wasn't always lit up in the comics either--only when she was flying.

 

[Christopher]

Her hair wasn't always lit up in the comics either--only when she was flying.

Well, it never "lit up" per se in the comics -- it was just drawn trailing behind her in a way that suggested a trail of smoke, although it was colored the same way her hair was normally.

 

[theenglish]

Just using the expression that seems to be used in this discussion. It was very much in style of the early eighties to have a trail behind supers who flew.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I do miss her big eighties hair.

 

[Christopher]

I never understood whether the "hair trail" behind Starfire was something that characters in-universe would actually see or if it was just a stylization like motion lines. And if it was the former, whether it actually was some kind of smoke trail or if it was somehow actually made of hair. It was pretty much impossible to parse literally, and I note that no animated adaptation to my knowledge has ever attempted to depict it. I guess this show's idea of having her hair light up in a way suggesting fire is a reasonable way of conveying a similar general impression to the "smoky" quality of the illustrated effect, although it sort of crosses over into Firestorm territory.

 

[thribs]

She looks like a hooker, which is probably the best suited profession for her.

 

[theenglish]

I just read some more about the streaming service. It is cool that we are getting the Outsiders (only with Nightwing instead of Batman), but it seems that Kid Flash and Wonder Girl (their animated versions) will be on that show instead of Titans, and Cyborg will appear on Doom Patrol in a cameo. It is a shame that those characters couldn't appear on the Titans series.