Some speculation on Edison and the Franklin.
Spoilers Timeline of USS Franklin and Captain relative to ENTERPRISE (2001)
- Thread starter Klondike307
- Start date
That's pretty much how I interpret things too. I wouldn't call it NX-Epsilon, just Franklin, later renamed USS Franklin.
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I don't think so, if you assume that Yorktown is a result of the timeline change, there never was a space station Krall could spy on to a) formulate a goal, namely it's destruction as a statement to the whole Federation, b) gathering the necessary intel to attack Federation starships and space stations successfully and c) not get the macguffin to make his doomsday weapon go.
I don't even think Edison's 22nd century life happened in the Prime Universe, that he's an example of Simon Pegg's talk of the timeline always being different, even prior to Nero's arrival.
Makes perfect sense if you ask me. I don't think it's hard to believe that before the actual NX-class, a ship bigger than the Alpha to Delta engines was needed to test a bigger engine. This ship was mothballed for a while, untill after the Romulan War and the forming of the Federation required some more ships to bulk out the Fleet and the ship recommisioned.
That doesn't make any sense. The characters in the first movie specifically stated that they were in an alternate timeline caused by Nero and Ambassador Spock's arrival. The destruction of the Kelvin, the death of Kirk's father, Spock's mother, and the destruction of Vulcan were specifically caused by the time traveling Nero. But for his arrival, the timeline would have proceeded naturally with no time travel paradoxes.
The credits of the movie listed "Spock Prime" as the ambassador's name, so obviously he and Nero were from the "Prime" universe (whatever that means), and their history was identical up to the point where Nero destroyed the Kelvin.
Now, if you're saying that due to the Temporal Cold War in "Enterprise" -- with Daniels, FutureGuy, the Xindi, et al. -- not to mention the time-traveling Borg invasion a century earlier (in "First Contact"), that the timeline has been permanently screwed up since 2063, then I agree. The timeline the Enterprise-E returned to after defeating the Borg in "First Contact" was the future of the timeline depicted on "Enterprise." But then in the finale of "Voyager," Admiral Janeway created yet another alternate timeline (just like Nero and Ambassador Spock later would in the Abrams movies), where the Voyager returned to Earth decades sooner than in her original timeline. We saw this alternate timeline in "Star Trek: Nemesis," where Admiral Janeway was seen back on Earth giving Captain Picard his orders.
So, if we take the timeline of "Star Trek: Nemesis" to be the "Prime" timeline where Nero and Spock came from, then that is already Alternate Timeline #17, following the timeline-altering events in "First Contact," "Enterprise," and "Voyager." The Abrams movies take place in Alternate Timeline #18. There's nothing new or different about this alternate timeline. Nero's attack on Vulcan is just a larger-scale version of the Xindi's attack on Florida. They were both events caused by time-traveling aliens that didn't happen in the timeline the aliens came from. (But Nero and Spock Prime came from the alternate future timeline created after the Xindi's attack on Florida in "Enterprise," so their "Prime" timeline isn't even the same one depicted in "Star Trek: First Contact" or Spock's last appearance in "Unification," or even the Admiral Janeway timeline last seen in "Star Trek: Nemesis.")
Not to mention the alternate timeline created in "Yesterday's Enterprise" when Lt. Yar took the Enterprise-C back in time to prevent two decades of war with the Klingons. Just like Nero and Admiral Janeway, Lt. Yar went back in time, created an alternate timeline completely different from the one she came from, and she remained in that new timeline, never to return to her own. "Star Trek" has shown dozens of alternate timelines over the past 50 years. But aside from the Mirror Universe and the alternate realities in TNG's "Parallels," timelines always diverge at the point of the time traveler's arrival in the past -- before that, history was identical to the timeline they came from.
What was my point? Oh, yeah: Everything that happened during and after "Enterprise" -- including the Xindi attack, Romulan War, MACOs, the U.S.S. Franklin, etc. -- were all part of Nero and Spock's original history. Everything different about this new timeline in the movies was directly caused by Spock and Nero after their arrival.
It is a good midway point both in terms of size and design between the NX test vehicles and the NX-01. It might have even been brought into service and given it's NX-326 designation during the Romulan War. I can see them retro fitting pre NX-01 United Earth Starfleet ships to operate in the reserves.
If you read Christopher Bennett's Rise Of The Federation novels, there's quite some stuff about fleet building, and at the point of 2165, the species making up the Federation are still using their own ships, with humans being the exploratory arm, the Andorians serving as the main combat ship, and Tellarites serving as cargoships and such. In the fourth novel, we're only now coming to the point where Starfleet is designing and building completely new ships. And that makes perfect sense.
"NX" could have been used as a catch-all designation for all starships in Federation registry before switching to the familiar 'USS' when they decided to reorganize, perhaps when they started to build ships for unified crews.
For me it's enough that they gave the Franklin the same Photonic missiles and Pulse cannons we know are from Enterprise. The warp 4 comment is a little weird, but I can rationalize it either as Franklin's class being the first production capable ship at Warp 4 (NX-01 was purely an experiment), or the exact capabilities of NX-01 remained classified and Franklin was the first publicly announced fast ship.
For me it's enough that they gave the Franklin the same Photonic missiles and Pulse cannons we know are from Enterprise. The warp 4 comment is a little weird, but I can rationalize it either as Franklin's class being the first production capable ship at Warp 4 (NX-01 was purely an experiment), or the exact capabilities of NX-01 remained classified and Franklin was the first publicly announced fast ship.
Yes, but Simon Pegg has recently espoused the view that this causal effect could travel in both directions along the timeline, that the changes could ripple "outward" from the event, not just forward but also backward, creating not only a new future but a new past as well. He's embracing a less linear, more DW-inspired view of temporal mechanics, i.e. "people assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint, it's more like a big ball of wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey stuff." This seems to be a view that's increasing in popularity of late, perhaps also being witnessed in the X-Men films. Now, whether this rationale need be applied to these specific elements of the new film or not, I don't know, but that's what @The Wormhole is referring to.
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No, the "X-Men" movies just have bad continuity and plot holes, unrelated to the time travel in the last two movies.
What you're describing is like the anti-time paradox created by Q and Picard in "All Good Things ..." where an event in the future ripples backwards and changes the past. But even within that episode that theory did not make any sense -- causality cannot travel backwards within a single timeline. We only exist because our bodies are made up of the molecules from food and air we consumed in the past. We only remember things because we saw them from the photons created by a light source and reflected forward in time into our eyes. Everything in the universe only exists now because it was influenced by everything that was there before -- heat, gravity, electromagnetism, etc. There are no laws of physics that cause something to happen for no reason, retroactively, from the future. That future couldn't exist if its own past didn't already exist.
Well, one way to look at it is that Nero's meddling enabled the actions of time travelers from the future of the Kelvin universe to go back and mess with time even before Nero himself arrived.
Like for instance, instead of Kirk and company traveling back to the 1980s in a BOP to save some whales, they actually come back to 2016 in the new ENT-A. In the process they have to design new electronics to fix the ship, starting a computer revolution that eventually chains into more advanced starships than the Prime Timeline. This, instead of the transparent aluminum. All because the rescue trip was taken with the Kelvinverse Ent-A, made by the decisions of the Kelvinverse version of the crew.
Like for instance, instead of Kirk and company traveling back to the 1980s in a BOP to save some whales, they actually come back to 2016 in the new ENT-A. In the process they have to design new electronics to fix the ship, starting a computer revolution that eventually chains into more advanced starships than the Prime Timeline. This, instead of the transparent aluminum. All because the rescue trip was taken with the Kelvinverse Ent-A, made by the decisions of the Kelvinverse version of the crew.
Well, a way how backward ripples could happen would be time travel affecting time travel.
You go back into the past, changing the future.
You now have a future where time travel happens thst dudn't happen in the earlier timeline further into the past creating more changes.
Efit:
Ok, ninja'd . :P
You go back into the past, changing the future.
You now have a future where time travel happens thst dudn't happen in the earlier timeline further into the past creating more changes.
Efit:
Ok, ninja'd . :P
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