Spoilers The Robot Revolution grade and discussion thread
- Thread starter The Nth Doctor
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It's happening! It's really happening! Doctor Who is coming back!
Middling. Good in places, terrible in places. Planet of the Incels and the ‘baddie’ didn’t work, new companion does work. Needed to be a two parter, probably with the halfway point being Belinda giving herself up. Rushed as it was, and with no narrative time jumps, all of the relationships are tell don’t show. Felt like RTD doing a homage to Moffat.
Edit: and the unseen by the Doctor stuff at the end means the whole episode didn’t happen anyway. Which will be to do with the arc, but is a Moffatism.
Edit: and the unseen by the Doctor stuff at the end means the whole episode didn’t happen anyway. Which will be to do with the arc, but is a Moffatism.
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I really enjoyed it, a solid season opener! I only wish the last season had started on something like this, rather than the baby one
Well that was kinda bonkers.
I like Belinda so far, but her story so far seems to Clara 2.0 (with a dash of Martha), and I'm not sure if I want to go done the Impossible Girl route again.
I picked the Incel thing pretty quickly, so it didn't really suprise me when Alan was revealed to be the AI (didn't help that the story lacked other built-in possibilities - plot wise it was like a murder mystery with only 2 characters - the reveal fell flat because you could see it coming a hundred kilometres away).
Did anybody notice Belinda knew it was a TARDIS without being told? Was something cut, or is that a part of the mystery that will be addressed later?
Honestly I did enjoy the episode. We just need more fun and silly episodes that balance heart and stupid equally, something I felt like the 12th and 13th doctor era forgot sometimes.
I like Belinda so far, but her story so far seems to Clara 2.0 (with a dash of Martha), and I'm not sure if I want to go done the Impossible Girl route again.
I picked the Incel thing pretty quickly, so it didn't really suprise me when Alan was revealed to be the AI (didn't help that the story lacked other built-in possibilities - plot wise it was like a murder mystery with only 2 characters - the reveal fell flat because you could see it coming a hundred kilometres away).
Did anybody notice Belinda knew it was a TARDIS without being told? Was something cut, or is that a part of the mystery that will be addressed later?
Honestly I did enjoy the episode. We just need more fun and silly episodes that balance heart and stupid equally, something I felt like the 12th and 13th doctor era forgot sometimes.
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And after establishing that the Al AI was asking for help every ninth word, they didn’t follow through at that, and the story then gave an unpleasant end to someone after establishing they too were a victim of sorts. It was also a Chibnall tribute episode then. (That, because we see the certificate floating in its frame at the end, is a paradox of events that didn’t happen, happened, didn’t happen… maybe it will be explained for once.)
It started off well, but something sticks in my craw when I see pets being hurt or killed. Call me oversensitive if you must.
Good ideas, good acting and exceptional production values again. The 'Planet of the Incels' thing was a bit meh, but could've been worse. No time for forgiveness from this Doctor, straight up the vacuum for you, nasty AL!
I enjoyed it more that 'Space Babies'.
6
Good ideas, good acting and exceptional production values again. The 'Planet of the Incels' thing was a bit meh, but could've been worse. No time for forgiveness from this Doctor, straight up the vacuum for you, nasty AL!
I enjoyed it more that 'Space Babies'.
6
Man, this episode was lousy. RTD you can do better than this
Well, that was fun. Not an all-time classic, but a good introduction to a new character and a major step up from some of last season.
If anyone's looking for a bit more Varada Sethu, besides Andor, she's in the UK cop show Annika with Nicola Walker (Liv Chenka in a lot of Big Finish Doctor Who audios), recurring guest star Paul McGann (the Eighth Doctor), and one-off guest star Rebecca Root (also in some BF audios, including the Stranded series with Walker and McGann).
If anyone's looking for a bit more Varada Sethu, besides Andor, she's in the UK cop show Annika with Nicola Walker (Liv Chenka in a lot of Big Finish Doctor Who audios), recurring guest star Paul McGann (the Eighth Doctor), and one-off guest star Rebecca Root (also in some BF audios, including the Stranded series with Walker and McGann).
Until the cat zap I was ‘ok, maybe they’ve turned something around, it’s a bit manic and a bit 2006…’ and then the cat zap, and I just had the feeling that it was a sign of tone deafness and a possible harbinger. Which, it pretty much turned out to be. Sethu and the drawing from old SF (bit of metropolis, bit of 2001, a dash of Logan’s Run) were the only high points, and that manic rush and sense of important things being unexplained didn’t fill me with faith. (Cleaning droid knows to deliver certificate why? Belinda understands the Blinovitch Limitation Effect from films, despite the fact it’s pretty much a Who only thing and works differently here anyway compared to say The Big Bang or Mawdryn Undead… these are the least offensive examples, small things that just… niggle.)
Yeah, it was almost there. It's those tiny imperfections that can ruin an otherwise solid work of art.
I was wondering if Belinda was a huge fan of Time Cop or something? That was the first time I ever heard the term "Same matter can't occupy the same space". Massive JCVD fan, perhaps?
I don't care for gratuitous violence to randos in Doctor Who generally unless it's either dramatically weighty or kind of funny, so I decided the cat zap was worth it for Bels asking Mrs. Flood to tell their neighbor she sent the cat to live on a farm mid-abduction.
Speaking of abruptly killing off minor characters, I'm not sure if it was the acting, directing, or writing, but I think they really needed to pull out their A-game to sell Sasha-55 as a companion in a couple of minutes, and we got the C-minus game, at best.
RTD2 is clearly as much in conversation with Moffat's era a Moffat's was with RTD's, but I don't think Davies has the same instinctual acuity for handling timey-wimey stuff in terms of i-dotting and t-crossing. Like, when Moffat did something whacked out like that, it was usually pretty straightforward (within the logic of the situation) what the implications and conclusions were, but I'm confused in a way I don't think I'm supposed to be about what exactly happened when the Doctor was shot through Belinda's life.
Like, when Moffat did a similar thing with Clara, it's very clear what happened; throughout the first fifty years of Doctor Who, the Great Intelligence was constantly trying to kill the Doctor off-screen, and duplicates of Clara were constantly foiling its schemes, 99% of the time with the Doctor being none the wiser. In this, was the Doctor physically in Belinda's life? He remembers it, but as an observer or participant? Did he slot in over other people, or was he trapped on Earth stalking her since she was a baby? Belinda doesn't remember him, so how does that fit in? What happened to Alan, was his mutilated robo-body just de-aged past zero in the present, or was he never born? The Doctor being sent back suggests the latter, so does that do something to Belinda's life (or everyone else's) now that this somewhat shitty guy was never there?
On balance, though, I thought it was a solid episode, and I'm looking forward to the rest of the season.
Speaking of abruptly killing off minor characters, I'm not sure if it was the acting, directing, or writing, but I think they really needed to pull out their A-game to sell Sasha-55 as a companion in a couple of minutes, and we got the C-minus game, at best.
RTD2 is clearly as much in conversation with Moffat's era a Moffat's was with RTD's, but I don't think Davies has the same instinctual acuity for handling timey-wimey stuff in terms of i-dotting and t-crossing. Like, when Moffat did something whacked out like that, it was usually pretty straightforward (within the logic of the situation) what the implications and conclusions were, but I'm confused in a way I don't think I'm supposed to be about what exactly happened when the Doctor was shot through Belinda's life.
Like, when Moffat did a similar thing with Clara, it's very clear what happened; throughout the first fifty years of Doctor Who, the Great Intelligence was constantly trying to kill the Doctor off-screen, and duplicates of Clara were constantly foiling its schemes, 99% of the time with the Doctor being none the wiser. In this, was the Doctor physically in Belinda's life? He remembers it, but as an observer or participant? Did he slot in over other people, or was he trapped on Earth stalking her since she was a baby? Belinda doesn't remember him, so how does that fit in? What happened to Alan, was his mutilated robo-body just de-aged past zero in the present, or was he never born? The Doctor being sent back suggests the latter, so does that do something to Belinda's life (or everyone else's) now that this somewhat shitty guy was never there?
On balance, though, I thought it was a solid episode, and I'm looking forward to the rest of the season.
It was ok. God knows I've seen worse. The cast were fine, the characters worked. too rushed but Who has often been like that since it came back in 2005. The weird bit when the certificates touched was quite reminiscent of 70s Sci-fi and I liked that. Gatwa remains an excellent Doctor and if this is his last season in the role I hope he gets to display more of the dark side of the character. I didn't mind the planet of the incels reference, which may trigger some people who are looking to be triggered. Dr Who doesn't need to avoid political ideas, look at Genesis of the Daleks "Nuclear war and Nazis are bad." and the best Sci-Fi is always based on contemporary issues.
My one complaint is that if Doctor Who does survive, or returns after a hiatus, they should cut the budget and increase the number of episodes. Slow down and concentrate on the writing to tell the story. I worry that, when you can show anything on screen, there's a temptation to do that. The best stories often seem to come from limiting what can be shown, and making the writing and the actors carry the story.
Anyway, I'm looking forward to the rest of the series. And I really hope Gatwa gets a speech of "You call this a war!" or "Good men don't need rules" levels of quality at some point. 7/10.
My one complaint is that if Doctor Who does survive, or returns after a hiatus, they should cut the budget and increase the number of episodes. Slow down and concentrate on the writing to tell the story. I worry that, when you can show anything on screen, there's a temptation to do that. The best stories often seem to come from limiting what can be shown, and making the writing and the actors carry the story.
Anyway, I'm looking forward to the rest of the series. And I really hope Gatwa gets a speech of "You call this a war!" or "Good men don't need rules" levels of quality at some point. 7/10.
Yeah, it was almost there. It's those tiny imperfections that can ruin an otherwise solid work of art.
I was wondering if Belinda was a huge fan of Time Cop or something? That was the first time I ever heard the term "Same matter can't occupy the same space". Massive JCVD fan, perhaps?
It’s preferable to Who existing as a fiction in its own universe. Mind you, I hadn’t seen TimeCop, but did read the comic. It’s not commonly boom time when things cross their own path in SF though.
It’s rare GhostBusters 2016 gets called up as a better example of something, but here we are.
The problem with Planet of the Incels and that whole sub-plot is that it wasn’t allegory, it wasn’t commentary, it wasn’t questioning it, it wasn’t highlighting it, it wasn’t a story about it — it wasn’t doing *anything* with it other than a pretty shabby villain motivation and a throwaway gag. And let’s be honest, it’s far too serious a real world topic to do that with. It served no purpose, and also didn’t actually seem to make any sense at all — something else RTD has heard about but doesn’t have much understanding of beyond that. Like when he didn’t actually know what non-binary meant, or accidentally made a trans character be trans because of Time Lord magic. It’s tone deaf and throwaway. And ironically, since it was written and made so long ago, just looks particularly shitty in a month where the whole country has gone mad for ‘Adolesence.’
It also got very confused — is Al a victim? ‘Cos he was asking for help, and the help involved turning him into ‘a sperm and an egg’ and him getting hoovered up to guffaws. There is zero characterisation to him beyond a cartoon bad man, with unbelievable dialogue designed to show us him being mid-range unpleasant as quickly as possible, then apparently *more* confusingly bad once he’s somehow given a planet, so we don’t think too hard that the only reason he’s been cybered up is because Belinda said it was him that bought the certificate. All of which is paradoxical in a way that may only make sense later in the season if we’re lucky. But that’s by-the-by, the villain was poorly done, the commentary also.
Ncuti still isn’t persuading me it’s anyone but Ncuti. It’s not the way Tom-was-the-Doctor-and-the-Doctor-was-Tom — Ncuti is playing exactly what he is, a dude the age he is who is human, and anytime he’s doing something Doctorish in action, it feels like acting. I don’t want to see the performance, I want to believe in the characters on screen. Sethu acts him off the screen in that regard. So maybe a good speech is something he needs — the closest I got to not seeing the acting was when he was doing the every ninth word speech.
Edit: just to add another problem with that villain arc, and something that doesn’t make any sense — how old is Al? How old were the pair? Teens? And if the relationship was as messed up as we are later told, why does she keep the star certificate in a frame on her bedroom wall? It makes no sense except to shoehorn in stuff. If she thought he had vanished off to Margate (and ‘left’ her) that would then all make sense, but we got the half-baked stuff instead. And what *might* be little more than a child as a villain, but because there’s no de-aging stuff or recasting going on, it’s very very unclear as to the time frame of events. Sometimes, a simple approach is better, or at least thinking it through to make sense, and presenting his weird behaviour *more* than just the weird ‘girls are bad at maths’ and awkward social behaviour in the first place (rather than an ‘aha! Flashback!’ with even more unnatural dialogue) would make it smoother and better. And commit to the bit — have the world *be* planet of the Incels in how he’s running things, and don’t have him asking for help from what is quite horrific.
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I noticed a lot of set redressing/ reuse
Belinda’s home is Donna’s
The rocket they spent a lot on for “The StarBeast” is repainted here
Belinda’s home is Donna’s
The rocket they spent a lot on for “The StarBeast” is repainted here
A very solid episode. We got a "mystery" with the companion but not some obnoxious one, we got an interesting location and an overall intriguing story. This was such a better episode then last seasons companion intro with the goblins stealing babies, and Belinda is a much more interesting companion then Ruby. I'm sure RTD will ruin things sooner rather then later, but they pulled off a good start to a season I've been dreading recently.
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