Spoilers The Flash - Season 2

[FPAlpha]

I liked this episode more than last week's. At least we got Patty one more time and yes she did finally find out, even though Barry came off kind of a dick in this episode. Wouldn't one think Zoom would be able to find out who Barry loves even if he hadn't told her? I'm sure he's pretty capable, considering how much he kicked Barry's ass in that previous episode. Also really liked the stuff between Joe, Iris, and Wally. It's those tender moments I've not seen that much of from Flash lately. I was a little disappointed with the way things ended with Reverse Flash. I guess it's a cyclical paradox kind of thing? Time Travel is so confusing. I still like Doc Brown's explanation the best.

By the way, thanks for spoiling the twist of Earth-1 Hunter. Not everyone reads the comics.

Uhm, sorry? I don't read them too, i was just familar with the name and was wondering what they planned. The writers sure have their own plan and are not recreating a single comic storyline frame by frame so there's no way to know what and if they have planned something with Earth 1 Hunter Zolomon or if it was just a dead end and a bone thrown for comic book fans. Personally i believe that Earth 2 Zoom is someone else.. my favorite theories would be eitther Barry Allen from Earth 2 or his father from Earth 2 being Zoom, would throw Barry Allen from Earth 1 really for a spin.

 

[tomalak301]

Uhm, sorry? I don't read them too, i was just familar with the name and was wondering what they planned. The writers sure have their own plan and are not recreating a single comic storyline frame by frame so there's no way what and if they have planned something with Earth 1 Hunter Zolomon or if it was just a dead end and a bone thrown for comic book fans. Personally i believe that Earth 2 Zoom is someone else.. my favorite theories would be eitther Barry Allen from Earth 2 or his father from Earth 2 being Zoom, would throw Barry Allen from Earth 1 really for a spin.

I guess it's just one of those things that if we do find out that Hunter is Zoom on Earth 1, the emotional impact will be lost, which is what I was angry about. Yeah the writers have their own plan and maybe that won't happen. It's just that reveal seemed important and it almost will feel predictable at this point. Also, this season hasn't had an emotional reveal like when it was revealed that Harrison Wells was reverse flash last year. Kind of not feeling that emotional attachment this season for some reason.

 

[FPAlpha]

At this point they are dropping speedster references and characters likey they want to build an army.. most of them i got through secondary sites and i'm not mad that i am spoiled in this way. Basically anytime a character is mentioned that has a ridiculous name or a name related to speed in some way it's a speedster from the comic who has yet to become a speedster in the show (and probably will). Season 3 apparently will become very crowded.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I'm waiting for Red Trinity to turn into Blue Trinity.

Evil communist speedsters, who defect and open up a Courier service for impatient Americans.

 

[Christopher]

Fixed points in time... stealing ideas from Doctor Who?

I'd call it more an homage. And it's not like Legends of Tomorrow isn't "homaging" Who even more aggressively (Arthur Darvill as a snarky, long-coat-wearing, English-accented time traveler who's on the run from his people because he stole a timeship that can blend in with its surroundings and just might be bigger on the inside).

But yeah, they cribbed the term from DW, but that's kind of how science fiction has always worked. It deals in concepts that don't exist in reality, so when one work comes up with a good label for something, others tend to adopt it. Like "ansible" from Ursula LeGuin's stories or "Belter" from Larry Niven or "cloaking device" from Star Trek. (Or all the terms that Trek tends to get credited for but that it actually cribbed from earlier works, like "communicator" from Doc Smith or "deflector" from Murray Leinster or "warp drive" from Fredric Brown and others or "subspace" from Jack Williamson and others.) Sometimes terms coined in SF even get adopted in reality, like "robot" from Karel Capek or "terraforming" and "genetic engineering" from Jack Williamson or "gas giant" from James Blish. In this case, "fixed point in time" is a handy, clear term for an unalterable event in a time-travel narrative, so it may well end up becoming part of the common vernacular in SF (though I doubt it'll ever apply in reality, because in real time-travel theory, all points in time are essentially fixed).

 

[Dick Whitman]

The visual and concept of a character being "Erased from Existence" may or may not have a source prior to Back to the Future, not sure of that. But clearly any film or tv shows that use that device in the last 30 years is referencing that movie.

 

[Christopher]

The visual and concept of a character being "Erased from Existence" may or may not have a source prior to Back to the Future, not sure of that. But clearly any film or tv shows that use that device in the last 30 years is referencing that movie.

The concept certainly existed before then, in The Twilight Zone's "And When the Sky Was Opened," for example. And I'm sure it existed in prose even earlier, since screen SF is always at least a decade or two behind prose SF.

 

[davejames]

I liked this episode more than last week's. At least we got Patty one more time and yes she did finally find out, even though Barry came off kind of a dick in this episode. Wouldn't one think Zoom would be able to find out who Barry loves even if he hadn't told her? I'm sure he's pretty capable, considering how much he kicked Barry's ass in that previous episode.

Yeah, I can totally understand Barry's concern over Patty being put at risk or killed the longer she stayed with him, but that still doesn't excuse him treating her in such a dickish and standoffish way. And there's no reason he couldn't have told her the truth (which she fully deserved by that point), while also making it clear that he would not be getting back together with her for her safety.

It's just bizarre to me how cruel the writers decided to treat this character at the end, after making her into such a sweet and smart and likeable person for much of the season that you wanted to root for.

 

[dahj]

there's no way to know what and if they have planned something with Earth 1 Hunter Zolomon or if it was just a dead end and a bone thrown for comic book fans.

Here's my theory.
On Earth-1 Hunter Zolomon is Jay Garick who was adopted by the Zolomons. So it stands to reason that Earth-2's Hunter Zolomon was also adopted and that person turned out to be Zoom.
The two top candidates would be Wally(his mom could have died during childbirth) or it could be Barry (if his mom died, dad went to prison and Joe didn't adopt him for some reason he could have gone to foster care and ended up adopted by the Zolomons.)

 

[Jax]

I wish they would not speak so loud in public about Barry being the Flash, in the station Joe n Patty were easily more than in earshot of several people and the train bit made me laugh everyone went back to their business instead of saying to patty "Hey you know the flash" and she even uses his forename again in a way easily audible to people near her.

 

[dahj]

^^
"Hey Steve, I just overheard Patty tell Joe that Larry from evidence is the Flash!"

 

[Greg Cox]

The concept certainly existed before then, in The Twilight Zone's "And When the Sky Was Opened," for example. And I'm sure it existed in prose even earlier, since screen SF is always at least a decade or two behind prose SF.

If we're talking books, Robert Silverberg used it in UP THE LINE as far back as 1969, which would have been a few years after the TZ episode.

 

[Christopher]

Although come to think of it, that Twilight Zone usage wasn't a time-travel story, so it's not quite the same.

 

[Arrrrgggh]

I wish they would not speak so loud in public about Barry being the Flash, in the station Joe n Patty were easily more than in earshot of several people and the train bit made me laugh everyone went back to their business instead of saying to patty "Hey you know the flash" and she even uses his forename again in a way easily audible to people near her.

In TV land, no one can hear you if you're within earshot unless they're supposed to. Or unless the camera pans to them eavesdropping with a sly look on their face.

 

[TemporalFlux]

Here's my theory.
On Earth-1 Hunter Zolomon is Jay Garick who was adopted by the Zolomons. So it stands to reason that Earth-2's Hunter Zolomon was also adopted and that person turned out to be Zoom.

Maybe they'll take from one of the Ultraman origins. We know that Ma and Pa Kent were unable to have kids, but they adopted Kal-el when they found him. Ultraman of the Crime Syndicate was the answer to "What if the Kent's had been able to have a natural human child?"

Under that same logic, Hunter Zoloman of Earth 1 was an adopted child. Hunter Zoloman of Earth 2 could be the natural born child.

However, I think they'll stick with somebody we know. I'm thinking more and more that it will turn out to be a Earth 2 Eddie Thawne. The actor could probably only appear for an episode of two given his other commitments (the same problem as Robbie Amell); and that would explain why they're keeping Zoom's identity under wraps for so long. They can't reveal it because they know the actor will only be available for an episode or two.

 

[Arrrrgggh]

The only thing that confuses me (and I know it's something you just have to accept) is that if everyone has a doppelganger on each planet, how does anyone throughout all of history have a different fate than their doppelganger? Everyone has to have at the very least mated with the same people they mated with on the other planet, at the same time, under similar circumstances, and they had to live at least long enough to have the same number of offspring.

Yet the differences between the two worlds are so vast, not only technologically and historically, but socially as well, that it's pretty much an impossibility for there to be even a single doppelganger.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Unless everything that we know about sperm is wrong.

What if it's not 900 million little seeds who are 80 percent elbows trying to get at that egg first?

What if 899 million sperms are working together to see that one allstar makes the winning touchdown?

 

[Thestral]

It's just bizarre to me how cruel the writers decided to treat this character at the end, after making her into such a sweet and smart and likeable person for much of the season that you wanted to root for.

Yup. This episode gets huge downmarks from me for this nonsense. Stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid way to send off a character and if they're going to move from this towards the blurgy Barry and Iris again I'm going to be even more disappointed. I'm quite happy Patty pulled that little stunt at the end. Just ugh, that whole plotline makes Barry come off as a dick.


Otherwise though, good stuff! The Iris and Francine, then Iris and Wally scenes were really well done, and all the stuff with Thawne as well. Loved the Hunter Zoloman reference, whether or not anything more comes from it.

 

[intrinsical]

I'd call it more an homage. And it's not like Legends of Tomorrow isn't "homaging" Who even more aggressively (Arthur Darvill as a snarky, long-coat-wearing, English-accented time traveler who's on the run from his people because he stole a timeship that can blend in with its surroundings and just might be bigger on the inside).

Normally homages are something that I enjoy. I just have a problem with the term "fixed point in time" itself as I don't find it sufficiently descriptive. Scientifically speaking, a point in time refers to a specific moment in time that applies across all of space - throughout the entire universe. Thus a fixed point in time is one moment in the entire universe that has to be locked in a certain configuration. If there are sufficiently many fixed points, and I am sure there are at least several billions fixed points occurring per second throughout the universe, then it follows that the entire universe is constantly locked and destined to unfold in a specific way.

I'ld rather Flash and DW used the term "fixed event in time" or "locked event in time".

 

[Guy Gardener]

They did.

Stein said that Nora's death was a fixed point.

Of course he also said that he believed that Nora could die without Thawne being there to kill her, so what does Martin really know about time?