The F**k word in Star Trek

[Newt]

Was watching some clips on YouTube recently with Star Trek scenes. And a scene from Picard popped up. Anyway the clip in question had a character drop the F-Bomb. I don't know why but that use of swearing in Star Trek is bad imo.
I'm no prude, can watch many programs with the worst language. But having it in Star Trek just rubs me the wrong way. It's like nails on a chalkboard to my ears and takes me out of the immersive experience. Maybe it's because we had many years of mild swearing on Star Trek and nothing that I would consider as tasteless profanity.
I really hope this trend will stop with any future trek projects.
Also I always got the impression that use of swearing was uncommon by the 23rd century. It was puzzling to Mr Spock in Star Trek IV and he couldn't get that knack. I know his mind was still not fully there after the events of previous films but his mind was good enough to attempt time travel.

Agree or disagree?

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

I definitely agree. It's fine when it's relatively mild, but when they're dropping F-bombs it makes the dialogue feel a bit too contemporary. It breaks the spell a little bit.

Then again Lower Decks has half of T'Ana's dialogue bleeped out and she's awesome, so I guess there are always exceptions.

 

[NCC-73515]

I found going from

Spoiler

Turkana

to Yo Mama in Section 31 much worse

 

[Qonundrum]

Once in a while, maybe.

Let's look at the use of a similarly big butch word - "merde" - as uttered by Picard, and the qualifiers quickly make sense:

1. It's uttered only twice in the show's entire run ("The Big Goodbye", and "Elementary, Dear Data")
2. It's uttered only early on in the show's run, prior to season 3 when all remaining issues were ironed out and there's at least one story where the M-word could have been used, but clearly wasn't because (a) it wouldn't feel right, and (b) the tension of the scene did far more than any "pottymouth' could
3. It's uttered only in dire situations, and never overused in a season - never mind multiple times in one story, much less one time per season
4. It's uttered surprisingly and very calmly, without any histrionics, so let's compare that with:
   • Kylo Ren
   • Many characters in many 80s and 90s cable TV shows and/or R-Rated theatrical films
   • Any toddler in preschool

These limited uses, with "24th century affect", somehow add much to the tension of the story, especially when - if the actual US word was used so it's more surprising that TNG got away with it.

No worries, TOS used "hell" and "damn", as it was sold as "adult space adventure" sci-fi at the time.

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(Various episodes have characters saying "let's get the hell out of here", "the hell is that?", "Go to Hell"/"We have no hell, but we understand yours", etc, etc, etc.)


To compare opposite that, here's another bit of 1966ish stuff where it couldn't be said, mostly because it wasn't aimed at adults:

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It's obviously sooooooooooooooooooooooooooo dirty that it can't even be shown embedded!
(Aww man, now Shorts can be displayed directly now! Cool!)

Indeed, despite it all, the H-word isn't the most contentious of the bunch and was deemed to be "safe" for use in qualified circumstances at the time. It does convey enough urgency as uttered as well, as verb, and even in noun form it wasn't egregious enough, since - in the 60s - there was no f-wording way that any s-word, b-word, p-p-word, or any other naughty word would be allowed across the board without proper restricting (day of airing, night time when most kids wouldn't have a f-wording clue, etc, etc...)

 

[HotRod]

Meh. People swear. People always will swear. I don't care how enlightened we get as a species, sometimes there is no more optimal word for a situation than fuck. If Scotty hit his thumb with a hammer, I'd expect to hear a lot worse. Besides, it's not like we haven't seen swearing before from our ultra enlighten heroes.

 

[Qonundrum]

I definitely agree. It's fine when it's relatively mild, but when they're dropping F-bombs it makes the dialogue feel a bit too contemporary. It breaks the spell a little bit.

Then again Lower Decks has half of T'Ana's dialogue bleeped out and she's awesome, so I guess there are always exceptions.

That too. Trek always did "people in the future not sounding like people of today, without getting excessive" so much better in the past. The use of formal language helps immensely, in that regard. After all, in 400 years from now, we'd hopefully have more refinement and not speaketh alleth liketh Shakespeareeth... but hopefully not cliché 80s Valley parody from like "Idiocracy", either... (/partialIrony)

Parodies like "The Orvile" got away with being shlocky with contemporary slang and all, because it was comedy as well as parody. But even then, the time when they had the one guy say "We're in the future and I'm glad we're not like that" rang utterly hollow because the constant dialogue from everyone was clearly contemporary late-2010s.

 

[ananta]

I hate it in Trek. It was used far too often in PIC and it rankled every time. (Although I somehow love “sheer fucking hubris!” It’s just my jaw dropped to the floor when Admiral Foul Mouth uttered those words).

Somehow it makes Trek feel like it’s trying too hard to be Edgy and Modern. It has a certain cringe factor that immediately takes me out of a scene.

I loved Farscape mind you and its frelling fahrbot awesome dictionary of swearwords. And which wellnitz wouldn’t?

 

[Qonundrum]

Meh. People swear. People always will swear. I don't care how enlightened we get as a species, sometimes there is no more optimal word for a situation than fuck. If Scotty hit his thumb with a hammer, I'd expect to hear a lot worse. Besides, it's not like we haven't seen swearing before from our ultra enlighten heroes.

Beat ya to it, hehe!

There's just one small point to that: It's one moment that continues the running gag of "I now have an implant that allows me to have emotions, let's use it for comedic effect that doesn't flow with the story and its narrative, but is aimed AT the audience as a cheap gag." The narrative intent does matter. That said, the S-word manages to both work AND feel out of place for TNG simultaneously. Or, after adding mental gymnastics and headcanon that some argue shouldn't have to be made (for at least one of two dichotomic reasons), maybe Picard approved of both (a) Data's use of the word and (b) his using his linguistic translator in real time to say it in English.

Ever since "The Voyage Home", where the context was pretty obvious with the "fish out of water" trope, as well as outsider Spock making note of the situation, as well as Kirk recognizing the (as relational to 23rd century opposite the 1986 realm they were thrust into) language of the time, and didn't need McGivers to tell him either. Not bad... you'd think he'd F it up when kicking murderous psycho Kruge off him, but that scene obviously F'ed it up by not doing so, according to some audiences looking back and trying to play "put square peg in circle hole" mentality albeit it's with tonal structure and words in place of peg/hole.

Ain't the human condition grand? I'd F'ing like to think so, but sometimes it's all F'ed up too? (The overuse starts to grate, doesn't it? Heck yeah...)

 

[Tosk]

"You mean profanity.

That's simply the way they talk here. Nobody pays any attention to you if you don't swear every other word."

 

[Qonundrum]

"You mean profanity.

That's simply the way they talk here. Nobody pays any attention to you if you don't swear every other word."

That's so 1986!

Maybe Kirk had a hobby of watching 80s standup comedians, often from cable TV broadcasts since OTA would never have been allowed at the time, where profanity use was incessant. On top of all his other knowledge that he actually remained current with, he somehow knew all this esoteric 300-year-old stuff too.

Actually, check that, "Valley Girl" - from 1982 - was loaded with slang, some nigh on if not at profane levels, and was shown on OTA broadcast network. But most people wouldn't have recognized it, or that's what may have been theorized. It was popular enough and that was the most important thing.

And here it is, let's watch, it's so B-word'ing:

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(And, no, they're not filming in the TARDIS set either...)

And more than one B-word, too, woohoo!

The most interesting part is, the song wasn't exactly meant as appreciation or celebration, but that's another story...

 

[NCC-73515]

Ah, the Giants.
Colorful metaphors being an oddity is funnier than them being widespread. Spock slowly adapted and in the end said "One damn minute, Admiral", that was great. Now I'm trying to imagine them going further: Admiral, there be fuckin' whales here!! My friends, we've come the fuck home.

I mean, this is both funny and jarring:

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[Qonundrum]

Ah, the Giants.
Colorful metaphors being an oddity is funnier than them being widespread. Spock slowly adapted and in the end said "One damn minute, Admiral", that was great.

^^this, but more on that in a moment:

Now I'm trying to imagine them going further: Admiral, there be fuckin' whales here!! My friends, we've come the fuck home.

I mean, this is both funny and jarring:

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That clip exemplifies overuse way too well.


Human nature can be weird at times. But I'll admit, of all the pottymouth in TVH, "One damn minute" from the post-regenerated Spock trying to re-figure himself really fit the scene and somehow did work when it otherwise wouldn't. But the context and flavor of the scene and plot structure go a long way. TVH is not exactly my favorite, it is the next best thing to "overt comedy" and even the music has a hokum similar to many 80s TV sitcoms, but that "fish out of water" trope did lead to a couple great moments that feel genuine to the story and its flow, rather than aiming every gad squarely at the audience. So with the phrase "What's the use of a good quotation if you can't change it" from one of sci-fi's best characters in mind, to borrow yet another phrase, "We can be against and admire comedy all at the same time." (Especially when it works, ha! Which is also subjective as comedy is at its core, but with the limited number of plot and character archetypes and limited psychology of humanity, it's safe and suffice to say that there will always be an audience no matter what. Only the breadth and depth and floridity of dialogue remains the most creative variable.)

 

[Turtletrekker]

Words are words. They only have the power that you give to them.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Fuck that!

Swearing works against professionalism of the characters, and it is worth preserving that aura around the main characters. However, purposeful use is very effective. "sheer fucking hubris" perfectly communicated the frustration Starfleet had with Picard. Moreover, there are other uses of swear words and loose language that are very effective. Cirroc Lofton saying the n-word was equally shocking and badass, conveying the central tension of the story.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Obligatory mention of Picard saying shit in French in TNG season one.

It doesn't bother me, but I liked that Picard was the only one who didn't lower himself to saying "fuck" in Picard. Then season 3 happened, oh well.

I very much liked that the first time it was used in Trek, in Discovery season one, that it was a positive. "Fucking cool!"

 

[Qonundrum]

Words are words. They only have the power that you give to them.

That's the one fresh scene in "The Savage Curtain", which was otherwise a retread of Trek tropes, about the power of words. But how they're created and used also is as important?

 

[Qonundrum]

Obligatory mention of Picard saying shit in French in TNG season one.

It doesn't bother me, but I liked that Picard was the only one who didn't lower himself to saying "fuck" in Picard. Then season 3 happened, oh well.

I very much liked that the first time it was used in Trek, in Discovery season one, that it was a positive. "Fucking cool!"

I vaguely recall the scene and had to look it up:

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I remembered correctly, at least partially. As the scene there plays out, Tilly acts like the fry cook, feels like she's being reprimanded, then the scene switches gears and now fry cook is joined with burger flipper when, ideally, Tilly's self-correction should have been the shining moment instead of everyone else being dumbed down to her level instead, as the scene almost won me over until burger dude went down. But maybe that's the other point to the scene? But for all we really know, more of them came from the mirror universe anyhow and it was never said on screen. It's the power and magic of headcanon, wheeeeee! But I digress; either way, it's all good.

 

[Newt]

Swears like shit in tng & generations, or bastard in in Star Trek iii tsfs, or bollocks ins ds9, never really bothered me in their context. Plus it's mild stuff really.
But every time I hear a fuck now in modern trek is like it's been written by teenagers who just learned they can swear in front of their parents without reprimand.
I swear a lot myself in my daily life, as I say I'm not a prude.
Just don't want that level of profanity in my Star Trek despite the context of being used in a positive sense or a negative.

 

[Qonundrum]

Fuck that!

Swearing works against professionalism of the characters, and it is worth preserving that aura around the main characters. However, purposeful use is very effective. "sheer fucking hubris" perfectly communicated the frustration Starfleet had with Picard. Moreover, there are other uses of swear words and loose language that are very effective. Cirroc Lofton saying the n-word was equally shocking and badass, conveying the central tension of the story.

Context is key, absolutely. It's not easy to do. Heck, I was watching some sitcoms from the 70s and the first story of one of those, using a contentious was used in a dramatically and emotionally powerful scene to allow the audience to infer a greater point, actually works because the meaning lands. Then came the next season and here comes sweeps week and it's used like a rubber stamp because they wanted the audience to go "oooooooooooo" again, only this time the underlying story didn't have the depth to sell the word (much less the underlying reason, which didn't have a point) and the result missed the mark. Context AND the underlying script are essential. Now I never fully kept up with 21st century Trek*, but if these scenes are supposed to be "edgy humor", it's not landing. The apple scene is far more... interesting than the lopsided "effing cool" bit above. And here it is:

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Herre's a better one since it throws some spanners into the works, but there's a workaround for that cog too:

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"Enterprise" coyly and/or maturely discusses their version of replicators, even though TOS arguably had no such thing (only one scene vaguely hints at the possibility and yet TOS always had a galley which indicates the opposite, but the ENT scene feels like it's addressing TNG technology and forgetting that TOS existed, save for the yellow color piping -- it's all another reason to dislike prequels, but before I digress...), "Discovery" just puts it out tactlessly - ironic since it wants to take itself seriously and not reenact a few hundred "Red Dwarf" jokes involving "urine recyc" and so on, which is based on filtration that is used in places in real life, which is likely where "Enterprise" got its idea from as well. Difference is, a glorified coffee filter isn't quite the same thing as molecular pattern altering, and that is utterly nothing like a "3D printer" either, apart from a very loose association involving too many indirect correlations, so it's not comparing apples to apples but there I go again...)

Besides, people know the value of fertilizers in growing crops. Guess what fertilizer is made from... To compare, the Treknobabble is just a futuristic technological advancement at a molecular engineering level instead of bio-organic. Either which way, context and tact still speak for themselves, no?


* LD gets it right by bleeping the words, which adds much to the comedic flair. Remove the bleeps, and how many of those moments would remain as humorous? (Subtract at least one from the resultant value.) Depends on the audience, of course, but how many more might be gained (or lost) as a result, how can you calculate random variables on such a scale...

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Meh. People swear. People always will swear. I don't care how enlightened we get as a species, sometimes there is no more optimal word for a situation than fuck. If Scotty hit his thumb with a hammer, I'd expect to hear a lot worse. Besides, it's not like we haven't seen swearing before from our ultra enlighten heroes.

Wouldn't it have been funnier if Data imitated Picard, saying, "Merde?"