The Enterprise Incident - Why does Sub-Commander Tal allow herself to be taken prisoner?

[cgervasi]

In The Enterprise Incident, why does the Romulan commander allow herself to be taken prisoner?

Possible motivations:

• She doesn't want to face the consequences of allowing the Federation to steal the cloaking device. She figures the Enterprise will be destroyed. If she's captured and dies on the Enterprise, her record will show she was killed in the line of duty.
• She wants to be with Spock. - This seems unlikely. It seems she's sincere about planning to have him executed immediately after his final statement is recorded.
• She thinks she has a chance of retrieving the stolen clocking device. - We don't see her attempt to do that.
• She hopes her proximity to Spock will abort the transport and keep Spock from escaping.

What's going on in the turboshaft conversation?
SPOCK: Deck two. It is regrettable that you were made an unwilling passenger. It was not intentional. All the Federation wanted was the cloaking device.
Unwilling implies she didn't try to get beamed aboard, contrary to what we saw on screen moments earlier.

COMMANDER: The Federation. And what did you want?
SPOCK: It was my only interest when I boarded your vessel.
She's asking if he had any real interest in her. Spock says not at first, implying maybe he had some real feelings for her later.


COMMANDER: And that's exactly all you came away with.
SPOCK: You underestimate yourself, Commander.
She says you got the cloaking device, but you didn't get me because I'm done with you after your betrayal. Spock's disagreeing with that sounds creepy. Maybe he's saying he got to be intimate with her for an hour or so, so he's alright if she hates him now. Worse, since she's a prisoner, it could be construed as saying he actually does have her as a prize of war, whether she wants it or not. She's probably thinking about Kirk smirking when he said moments earlier that rather than putting her in the brig he'd have Spock take her to her quarters.

SPOCK: Obviously. Military secrets are the most fleeting of all. I hope that you and I exchanged something more permanent.
COMMANDER: It was your choice.
SPOCK: It was the only choice possible. You would not respect any other.
I don't know whether "it" was betraying her or being intimate with her. I could see her respecting him for betraying her out of a sense of duty, but I don't see why she would ever respect him deceiving her into being intimate with him.

COMMANDER: It will be our secret.
This implies "it" is their intimacy, since that was secret while everyone knew he betrayed her.

Or is she implying, maybe telling herself, that they both were sort-of falling in love with each other and tempted to betray their countries to be together? I just don't see evidence of that. When Spock was caught, he immediately said in front of witnesses that he was acting on behalf of the Federation to steal the cloaking device. She was going to execute him. I didn't see them as having been in love after the betrayal.

Maybe they just wanted to titillate the audience with the notion of Spock being intimate with a woman, and they just shoehorned that idea into this plot, without intending to be creepy.

Does anyone know why she would allow herself to be taken prisoner and what's up with their turboshaft conversation?

 

[Metryq]

Sub-commander Tal was not taken prisoner. He's back aboard the Red October.

 

[Henoch]

Does anyone know why she would allow herself to be taken prisoner

I took it more as "you're not going to escape me" unthinking/emotional reaction. Something like if Spock bolted and jumped down a chute, and the Commander follows him down the chute to pursue her escaping prisoner. Maybe?

As for the turboshaft conversation, being a Romulan, she's extremely vain about her beauty (check out her micro miniskirt ) and Spock is throwing her a conciliatory bone for her situation, "but you are very desirable."

 

[Phaser Two]

Oof. Just one of the least favorite episodes for me. And the most overrated of any in the whole series. Awful, awful fanfic. But at least the turbolift knew to take a couple of minutes to travel one deck.

 

[Methuselah Flint]

Fanfic?

 

[Phaser Two]

Fanfic?

The ep plays that way, yeah, sadly. Deranged Kirk, and a seasoned Romulan commander abandons all reason and logic over an infatuation with Spock.

 

[cgervasi]

Sub-commander Tal was not taken prisoner. He's back aboard the Red October.

I just looked it up. Tal was her first officer.

It must have stuck in my mind because they say it in the episode and because tal means such in Spanish.

 

[Metryq]

I just looked it up. Tal was her first officer.

I was just having fun with it. What's a sub commander doing in a spaceship, right? And the "Red October" (also a sub) reference was a nod to the stealth/cloaking. "Give me a ping, Vasili."

We never learn the Commander's name, although she whispers it to Spock.

 

[Poltargyst]

There is an unfortunate theme in TOS of women turning their back on their duty for love (Lt. Palamas, Lt. McGivers.) Is the Romulan Commander another example? I think it's not unlikely that she knew she was in for execution or some kind of nasty consequences from the Romulans so she decided defection was her best career choice at that point. I could see her willingly or not so willingly helping the Federation from that point on.

COMMANDER: And that's exactly all you came away with.
SPOCK: You underestimate yourself, Commander.
She says you got the cloaking device, but you didn't get me because I'm done with you after your betrayal. Spock's disagreeing with that sounds creepy. Maybe he's saying he got to be intimate with her for an hour or so, so he's alright if she hates him now. Worse, since she's a prisoner, it could be construed as saying he actually does have her as a prize of war, whether she wants it or not. She's probably thinking about Kirk smirking when he said moments earlier that rather than putting her in the brig he'd have Spock take her to her quarters.

I just take it that she wasn't counting herself as any kind of bonus for Spock to have captured, and he was complimenting her, telling her that she does have value, to the Federation and also to him personally.

 

[Poltargyst]

I was just having fun with it. What's a sub commander doing in a spaceship, right? And the "Red October" (also a sub) reference was a nod to the stealth/cloaking. "Give me a ping, Vasili."

We never learn the Commander's name, although she whispers it to Spock.

You had me Googling to see if Jack Donner played in The Hunt for Red October. He didn't, but I was surprised to see he played in Buffy, Charmed, and Enterprise, and also the movie Stigmata, all of which I've seen, so I'm sure I saw him without knowing who he was.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

The way I make this episode work, meaning to make it more plausible than a Hogan's Heroes caper, is to say that the female Commander and Sub-Commander Tal were both in on the plot to steal the cloaking device. They're like the American spies who gave the A-bomb to the Soviet Union. This whole plan was their idea, and they communicated with Starfleet so carefully that Kirk and Spock don't even know who the friendly Romulans are. They just know their mission is likely to succeed because somebody on the inside has it wired.

Thus the Commander and Tal do a lot of play-acting, including being upset when the device is missing, and the Commander shouting "Destroy this vessel!" when the Enterprise is about to escape. She knows Tal won't really do that. He'll make a show of trying, though.

And she grabbed Spock to escape with him because otherwise she will be put to death soon, whether or not the Romulan High Command figures out she's a traitor. Her feigned incompetence alone, that allowed Kirk to succeed, was great enough to get her executed.

So while Spock thinks he's "playing her" with a romance scam, she's just playing along very helpfully because she can't risk telling anyone that she is committing treason. It could be overheard, the way Commander Kor's office is nanny cammed in "Errand of Mercy." She knew what Spock's game was, helped him play it, and let him think he was masterfully manipulating her. When the time is right, she will defect to the Federation rather than be traded back to the Romulan Empire in a prisoner exchange.

Did the writers know this? Of course not. They were making '60s television. But I think this "no-conflict retcon" holds together pretty well, and it cures the otherwise futile and suicidal nature of Kirk's mission.

 

[Ssosmcin]

I watch this one for Shatner's incredible performance and for the idea that the Enterprise actually went on a spy mission to steal tech. The Spock/Commander storyline is not convincing and they spend too much time on it.

Shatner's meltdown is amazing and even though as a viewer I knew it was a put on, it was utterly convincing.

The music is quite good, also.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

I just take it that she wasn't counting herself as any kind of bonus for Spock to have captured, and he was complimenting her, telling her that she does have value, to the Federation and also to him personally.

This. Moreover, there was nothing "creepy" about Spock's responses.

 

[Poltargyst]

The way I make this episode work, meaning to make it more plausible than a Hogan's Heroes caper, is to say that the female Commander and Sub-Commander Tal were both in on the plot to steal the cloaking device. They're like the American spies who gave the A-bomb to the Soviet Union. This whole plan was their idea, and they communicated with Starfleet so carefully that Kirk and Spock don't even know who the friendly Romulans are. They just know their mission is likely to succeed because somebody on the inside has it wired.

Thus the Commander and Tal do a lot of play-acting, including being upset when the device is missing, and the Commander shouting "Destroy this vessel!" when the Enterprise is about to escape. She knows Tal won't really do that. He'll make a show of trying, though.

And she grabbed Spock to escape with him because otherwise she will be put to death soon, whether or not the Romulan High Command figures out she's a traitor. Her feigned incompetence alone, that allowed Kirk to succeed, was great enough to get her executed.

So while Spock thinks he's "playing her" with a romance scam, she's just playing along very helpfully because she can't risk telling anyone that she is committing treason. It could be overheard, the way Commander Kor's office is nanny cammed in "Errand of Mercy." She knew what Spock's game was, helped him play it, and let him think he was masterfully manipulating her. When the time is right, she will defect to the Federation rather than be traded back to the Romulan Empire in a prisoner exchange.

Did the writers know this? Of course not. They were making '60s television. But I think this "no-conflict retcon" holds together pretty well, and it cures the otherwise futile and suicidal nature of Kirk's mission.

I've had the thought before that the Federation had (Vulcan) spies aboard that made the mission be such an easy success though I didn't consider that the Commander and Sub-Commander might be spies themselves.

 

[Humanoid #77]

the only 2 things I don't like about this episode are

1. the cloaking device is so small and light one person can carry it
2. it can be quickly plugged and work in a completely different spaceship
3. Starfleet having it invalidates everything that came after involving cloaking devices (for example the 3rd 5th 6th movies, alot of TNG, almost all of DS9 and on)
4. that's 3 things not 2

But it's all forgiven when the Rom Com screams at Kirk (The Kirk) WE HAVEN'T EVEN BEGUN! -- and he shuts up

Great acting. Great scene

 

[Ssosmcin]

3. The commander and Spock both acknowledge the technological advantage is "fleeting" and soon it will be out of date.

3a. The original series is not responsible for any show that came after.

 

[Humanoid #77]

I am almost certain the next appearance (or disappearance) of the cloaking device was only 15 years later, both in-universe and in real life, in Star Trek III.

This time the device was, without explanation, installed in a Klingon ship.

Also in that movie, Kirk could see a cloaked vessel with his naked eyes (not even wearing his gold spectacles, nor Retinax 5)

 

[Rowdy Roddy McDowall]

We never learn the Commander's name, although she whispers it to Spock.

Hefticookiramrodia.

I watch this one for Shatner's incredible performance and for the idea that the Enterprise actually went on a spy mission to steal tech. The Spock/Commander storyline is not convincing and they spend too much time on it.

Shatner's meltdown is amazing and even though as a viewer I knew it was a put on, it was utterly convincing.

I suppose even some seasoned TREK viewers were scratching their heads at the actions of the latest ''evil'' Captain Kirk. The irony of the episode is that Kirk and Spock face less obstacles than usual, as they are both ''in on it'' before the story even begins.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

I am almost certain the next appearance (or disappearance) of the cloaking device was only 15 years later, both in-universe and in real life, in Star Trek III.

This time the device was, without explanation, installed in a Klingon ship.

Also in that movie, Kirk could see a cloaked vessel with his naked eyes (not even wearing his gold spectacles, nor Retinax 5)

Kirk wasn't looking out a window, of course. Star Trek III happened at a moment when Starfleet sensors were almost at the point of penetrating a Klingon cloak, and close enough for some degree of detection.

 

[Metryq]

This time the device was, without explanation, installed in a Klingon ship.

The movies seemed to blend the Klingons and Romulans into one enemy. Granted, "The Enterprise Incident" introduced the idea that Romulans were using Klingon ships and technology.

Then we have the "Kobayashi Maru" scenario in the simulator in The Wrath of Khan. The computer reports that Klingon ships are attacking. Yet the "Neutral Zone" between the Federation and Klingon Empire was imposed by the Organians, and is not a "no man's land." Anyone can go there. The way the Klingons appeared so suddenly in the sim suggests cloaking, again confusing the Klingons and Romulans.

(In a side note, I think the Kobayashi Maru in the sim was faked by the Klingons. Note how Uhura loses them as soon as they enter the Neutral Zone and the Klingons appear. Thus, you can imagine the surprise of Kirk's academy instructors when he is able to rescue a ship that isn't even there.)

As for Star Trek 6... the Klingon ship was probably commanded by Darth Vader from the planet Vulcan. What do the writers care?