The Enterprise-F: The Black Sheep Enterprise

[Lord Garth]

I posted this in the Head-Canon thread in GTD, but it's actually a good thread for here.

Running with the idea that the Enterprise-F had multiple crews and multiple Captains, as per what Terry Matalas has said, I think Starfleet did this to keep the Enterprise crew from knee-capping Starfleet Officers' careers.

Take Riker, for instance. He stayed First Officer of the Enterprise-D and E for 15 years. If he'd accepted a promotion to Captain sooner (i.e. even before he joined the Enterprise), how many First Officers would've served under Picard? How many other careers would've been made because these up-and-coming officers got to be First Officer of the Flagship? But Riker stayed and stayed and stayed and locked others out of having that position. And why did he stay? In hopes that Picard would either retire, get promoted, or be killed, and then he'd become Captain. He wanted the Enterprise so badly, and made it so obvious, that Starfleet wasn't ever going to give it to him.

Then there's Picard. A Captain with decades of experience and unafraid to stand up to Admirals. If Starfleet had inexperienced Captains who were ambitious and wanted to become Admirals, they'd be far less likely to push back against those Admirals when or if they disagreed with them. By the end of his time as Captain, Picard had a ton more experience than a lot of the Admirals giving him orders. Starfleet probably wanted to avoid that with future Captains of the Enterprise. So, they didn't want experienced Captains, they didn't want to keep them there long, and they wanted Commanding Officers who were more on the same page with Starfleet Command. Shelby shot up through the ranks to the Admiralty, and someone like her probably saw the Enterprise-F as something that could be a stepping stone for future Captains and Admirals.

In my head-canon, Shelby was in command of the Enterprise-F during the ceremony in Picard, as the E-F was being decommissioned, because the last Captain had been promoted to Admiral and the First Officer had probably been given command of some other prestigious ship after having cut their teeth on the E-F. Shelby loved that the E-F was anthesis of the E-D and the E-E. As an Admiral, she probably helped to guide the Enterprise-F in the opposite direction throughout its lifetime by having a major hand and influence in who captained it, as well as who was the XO, and for how long...

... then during the Celebration she gets killed by the Borg and her Interconnected Fleet is assimilated. Her over-ambition and her pushing back against the philosophy of the previous Enterprises being her Achilles Heel.

So the Enterprise-G becomes the true successor to the Enterprise-D and E. The Enterprise-G with Seven's crew are the crew that helped the Enterprise-D and Picard's crew save the Federation from Vadic and the Borg Queen....

... which will make the Enterprise-F the black sheep of the Enterprises.

What do you think? I think it gives the Enterprise-F some character (even if it goes against the grain of the others) instead just being a placeholder.

 

[James Cole]

What do you think? I think it gives the Enterprise-F some character (even if it goes against the grain of the others) instead just being a placeholder.

In real life, this is the reason most (first world) militaries and foreign services don't let people hold one post for too long. Too easy for corruption and cronyism to set in.

 

[fireproof78]

And nepotism.

 

[Tuskin38]

I wonder if that's why it was originally the 5 year mission. Kirk would do those 5 years and then be reassigned. Which is what happened, after TOS he was promoted out of the seat.

Keeping it in line with IRL navies.

 

[FederationHistorian]

In my head-canon, Shelby was in command of the Enterprise-F during the ceremony in Picard, as the E-F was being decommissioned, because the last Captain had been promoted to Admiral and the First Officer had probably been given command of some other prestigious ship after having cut their teeth on the E-F. Shelby loved that the E-F with was anthesis of the E-D and the E-E. As an Admiral, she probably helped to guide the Enterprise-F in the opposite direction throughout its lifetime by having a major hand and influence in who captained it, as well as who was the XO, and for how long...

It’s also possible that the Ent-F was Shelby’s ship and she’s synonymous with it. Like Kirk is with the original Enterprise. Harriman with the Ent-B, Garrett with the Ent-C, and Picard is with the Ent-D/Ent-E and even Archer with the NX class Enterprise.

because the last Captain had been promoted to Admiral

Well, Terry’s suggested that there is a version of STO’s Vakel Shon running around, so its believable he’d become Admiral if he was the last Ent-F captain.

and the First Officer had probably been given command of some other prestigious ship after having cut their teeth on the E-F.

I want to believe that first officer is Harry Kim.

No reason the USS Rhode island couldn't be a prestigious ship.

I wonder if that's why it was originally the 5 year mission. Kirk would do those 5 years and then be reassigned. Which is what happened, after TOS he was promoted out of the seat.


Keeping it in line with IRL navies.

There’s a clear exception with Pike being around for fifteen years. And non-canon source have Harriman at 18 years.

I know Archer was around for ten years, but who knows if that was the original plan? As there was that whole war with the Romulans in the second half of his tenure, and Archer was the most battle tested captain at the time. So, of course he’d be in the chair for more than five years.

 

[Lord Garth]

This is a mix of Canon, Non-Canon, and Head-Canon:

Up to TUC
Archer was Captain of the NX-01 for 10 years.
April was Captain of the Enterprise for 5 years, then promoted to Admiral. <-- An example of what Starfleet probably wanted.
Pike was Captain of the Enterprise for roughly 15 years, give or take.

Kirk was at least Captain of the Enterprise (and later Enterprise-A) during 2265-2270 (canon), 2272-2277 (non-canon but generally accepted), and 2285-2293 (from TWOK to TUC). So we're talking at least 18 years. I think he commanded the Enterprise for another five years after 2277, but that's just my opinion. If that turned out to be the case, he'd have commanded the Enterprise for 23 out of 28 years: 2265-2270, 2272-2282, and 2285-2293 (minus three months of exile on Vulcan).

I could throw Planet of the Titans in there for my Super Head-Canon, but that's getting too much into the weeds, so I won't; but you can read what I posted about it here, back in 2019.

Post-TUC/Pre-TNG
The novels have Harriman being in command of the Enterprise-B for 18 years: 2293-2311.
The novels have Demora Sulu commanding the Enterprise-B from 2311 on. I have no idea for how long, but that's what I remember.

According to the novels, IIRC (correct me if I'm wrong), Garrett was in command of the Enterprise-C from 2332 to 2344.

TNG through PIC
Picard commanded the Enterprise-D and E for 16 out of 17 years: 2364-2371 and 2372-2381. Commanding the Stargazer for 22 years from 2333 to 2355 gives him at least 38 years of experience as a Starship Captain. The most experienced Captain of the Enterprise, even if he didn't command a starship between the Stargazer and the Enterprise. If he did, that would make it even more.

I guess Worf was in command of the Enterprise-E for four years, if you go by the novels? Picard Season 3 seems to imply and strongly imply he messed up somehow. "That was NOT my fault!" Yeah. Suuuure......

Then we get the endless parade of Enterprise-F captains who probably lasted as long as Worf, or maybe even less. If the ship wasn't flagged by Admiral Shelby the entire time. I think Shelby really wanted to be First Officer of the Enterprise-D, and not being able to be outside of BOBW was a setback she had to deal with, but a setback nonetheless. Riker was an obstacle. "You're in my way." She played nice in BOBW Part II because her duty required it, but I doubt she ever truly changed her opinion of Riker.

.
.
.

So, in fact, I think April was the only Captain before the Enterprise-F where he was there for a maximum of five years, with the ship intact (i.e. not destroyed or unsalvageable), then moved up and moved on after that. He was the textbook example of what Starfleet Command wanted out of a Captain of the Enterprise, and no one else fit it or followed it.

Worf, I feel, shouldn't have been placed in command of the Enterprise. Based on what I've seen of him in TNG, DS9, and PIC, I don't think he would've made a good fit for the role, and was probably given it because Picard pulled a string and Worf wasn't overtly desiring it like Riker had been before he was given the Titan.

With the Enterprise-G, we're back to string-pulling again. But I honestly do think Seven would make a much better Enterprise Captain than Worf.

 

[The Wormhole]

According to the novels, IIRC (correct me if I'm wrong), Garrett was in command of the Enterprise-C from 2332 to 2344.

Depends on which novels you're referring to. The now defunct "Litverse" does indeed have Garrett commanding the Enterprise C the entire time it was in service. While David Goodman's Picard Autobiography has Admiral Hanson from TBOBW commanding the ship back in his days as a Captain.

I guess Worf was in command of the Enterprise-E for four years, if you go by the novels? Picard Season 3 seems to imply and strongly imply he messed up somehow. "That was NOT my fault!" Yeah. Suuuure......

Well, if we assume the Enterprise E really was one of the ships in the fleet from the Prodigy finale, it really wouldn't have been Worf's fault.

 

[valkyrie013]

Your assigning to much military to a non military organization.

Plus, today, your capped out at 55 years of age (unless your like a 3 or 4 star general/admiral)

Where in Trek, people live way past 100 comfortably, So if you say your a go getter and hit captain by 35, you can have over 60 years as a captain. Sure some move up to admiralty, but there are only so many openings, and they themselves usually stick around for awhile, so at a guess, starfleet is top heavy, and moving up from captain is a bit of a pain.

Some do, but at a guess, most are quite happy being at the captain level flying around. Plus you literally have Thousands of ships that need a crew and captain, and Space is a dangerous business, so there are vacancy's.

So a person being captain of a single ship for over a decade is probably quite normal.

 

[The Wormhole]

So a person being captain of a single ship for over a decade is probably quite normal.

Not so if that ship is supposed to be the flagship with a reputation for having the best of the best commanding and serving on it. That's something where you expect its officers and crew to rapidly rise and advance to better even more prestigious assignments, not languish for a decade and a half.

 

[valkyrie013]

Not so if that ship is supposed to be the flagship with a reputation for having the best of the best commanding and serving on it. That's something where you expect its officers and crew to rapidly rise and advance to better even more prestigious assignments, not languish for a decade and a half.

I would agree with you with most of the crew, but the Enterprise is the PLUM assignment and most would probably try to stay on the ship as long as possible.

Some of the crew that I would think would be long term would be:
The Captain. Go from the captain of the flagship to say a Miranda? nooooo. Would it be a stepping stone to an admiral position? maybe, but it would still take time, so maybe not Decades plural, but would be there for a long stint.
Chief Engineer: again, no better spot in the fleet, why would they leave?
CMO: again, no better spot
Few odds and ends where they at the top of there particular field/section, ones that are not on the command track where they won't be admirals.

Now some spots would be rotating quite frequently,
1st officer is one, that may last for maybe a few years before he or she or it would be snatched for another ships captaincy.
2nd officer, may be picked for 1st officer on another ship quite soon so would rotate quickly.
Etc.

Now, this is for the Flagship, which usually stays in the borders, so crew replacement is easy, now there are probably ships that do still do the 5 year missions, and turn over is quite low. Now ships like the Cerritos, turnover is insanely HIGH people want to get the hell off those usually.

 

[Lord Garth]

Your assigning to much military to a non military organization.

There's always been an argument over whether or not Starfleet is military or non-military. What I posted takes that argument into account. And if I'm taking both sides into account, then I have to give the "other" side an honest look (in this instance, the Enterprise-F) and build a case for it. Starfleet's outlook will change depending upon who's running things and what their vision for Starfleet is.

You can see this even in the uniforms. The TWOK Uniforms scream, "We're the military!" Then the TNG Uniforms were an extreme reaction to that where I think Starfleet was trying to change its image. Then we get to late-DS9. Starfleet fighting the Dominion. If that's not meant to be the military, I don't know what is. So, we get the dark FC Uniforms. Until Starfleet wants to change its image again. Color on the shoulder-pads again in Picard, the uniforms from Lower Decks and Prodigy, etc.

So, I think the Enterprise-F is a direct reaction to the previous two Enterprises. Until that approach doesn't work, and then the Enterprise-G goes back to what was done before: having people who can think outside of the box instead of being the box. And having a crew who stick together because they're such a well-oiled machine and a tight-knit group. It's cyclical.

Not so if that ship is supposed to be the flagship with a reputation for having the best of the best commanding and serving on it. That's something where you expect its officers and crew to rapidly rise and advance to better even more prestigious assignments, not languish for a decade and a half.

This! Exactly this. It doesn't even have to be the military either. In any workplace, where you have people rising through positions, being on the equivalent of the Flagship is a real prize that, ideally, ambitious individuals would want to work towards to have as a resume/portfolio/legacy booster.

We're being asked to suspend disbelief to see these crews stay together as long as they do for the sake of, "It's a TV show!" "It's a movie series!" "We want to keep the cast together!" I've been willing to go along with it and I am willing to go along with it. But that doesn't mean I'm not aware of it and it doesn't mean it still can't have an adverse effect in-universe.

 

[valkyrie013]

There's always been an argument over whether or not Starfleet is military or non-military. What I posted takes that argument into account. And if I'm taking both sides into account, then I have to give the "other" side an honest look (in this instance, the Enterprise-F) and build a case for it. Starfleet's outlook will change depending upon who's running things and what their vision for Starfleet is.

You can see this even in the uniforms. The TWOK Uniforms scream, "We're the military!" Then the TNG Uniforms were an extreme reaction to that where I think Starfleet was trying to change its image. Then we get to late-DS9. Starfleet fighting the Dominion. If that's not meant to be the military, I don't know what is. So, we get the dark FC Uniforms. Until Starfleet wants to change its image again. Color on the shoulder-pads again in Picard, the uniforms from Lower Decks and Prodigy, etc.

So, I think the Enterprise-F is a direct reaction to the previous two Enterprises. Until that approach doesn't work, and then the Enterprise-G goes back to what was done before: having people who can think outside of the box instead of being the box. And having a crew who stick together because they're such a well-oiled machine and a tight-knit group. It's cyclical.


This! Exactly this. It doesn't even have to be the military either. In any workplace, where you have people rising through positions, being on the Flagship is a real prize that, ideally, ambitious individuals would want to work towards.

We're being asked to suspend disbelief to see these crews stay together as long as they do for the sake of, "It's a TV show!" "It's a movie series!" "We want to keep the cast together!" I've been willing to go along with it and I am willing to go along with it. But that doesn't mean I'm not aware of it and it doesn't mean it still can't have an adverse effect in-universe.

Were dealing with an organization that we've seen roughly 250 years worth of history.
As with history, it ebbs and flows with the times, So, in starfleet, you have various opinions, and some admirals when they would be in charge would adopt a more War hawk footing, and have the fleet more militaristic and aggressive, but then you have your "Dove" admirals that would adopt a more pacifist, exploratory time.
I would say that during say TWOK time that the more war oriented admirals were in charge and pushed starfleet to more militaristic uniforms etc. while during TNG it was more Dove oriented and with retaliative peace, went more civilian.

 

[C.E. Evans]

I think, like the Enterprise-D, the Enterprise-F was just a ship that went before her time. It happens.

In the real world, there have been naval ships that been built, commissioned, put into service, and then retired after only a few years for various reasons. It's not much of a stretch to think that happens to Federation starships as well. The primary idea that's being floated around is that the Enterprise-F had her systems compromised after her last major adventure, and Starfleet chose to just decommission the vessel rather than try to fix her. She may have been too big for her own good, IMO, and the resources that would have gone to repair her were better spent building smaller newer ships.

 

[Danja]

Why re-christen the Titan as the Enterprise-G?

There are larger, more powerful classes of ships in the fleet (the Galaxy class, the Sovereign class, etc.). Why re-christen a Connie III?

Starfleet knows who Seven of Nine is. They've seen what she is capable of (she built a warp core on Voyager out of spare parts).

The Enterprise-G is a test. If there's anyone who can make lemonade out of a lemon grove, it's Seven of Nine.

Riker may have been the reason Seven was selected to command Enterprise. Riker wanted the status of commanding Enterprise (more so than doing the hard, grueling day-to-day work of command).

Seven didn't let Titan fall. She created a tactical assault unit composed of herself, Raffi, the ship's cook, the ship's doctor, and several medical officers!

Starfleet wants Captains who are in it for reasons other than stroking their egos and/or bolstering their resumes.

 

[The Wormhole]

In any workplace, where you have people rising through positions, being on the equivalent of the Flagship is a real prize that, ideally, ambitious individuals would want to work towards to have as a resume/portfolio/legacy booster.

Oh, for sure. I work in retail, and while the store I work at isn't one of the busier ones, the larger busier stores in my company are constantly looking for new people for their management or supervisory positions. At those stores, people with skill get noticed and get to move on to better positions. Likewise, those without skill are also noticed and are removed from that particular store or maybe even the position they hold. Then there are those why just find the fast paced environment of a busy store, and/or the pressures of management or being a supervisor too much and voluntarily step down or leave. Flagship positions are supposed to be a rotating door of people coming and going. That's not going to be the place where anyone languishes for any amount of time. It should be the same in Starfleet. I mean, hell, just the pressure of being at the top of the anthill should take its toll on those who serve on any of the Enterprises for any significant length of time.

 

[Danja]

Now ships like the Cerritos, turnover is insanely HIGH people want to get the hell off those usually.

Boimler was assigned to Titan (and bombed).

 

[mattman8907]

Boimler was assigned to Titan (and bombed).

He got Duplicated in a transporter accident. and the clone wanted to stay on Titan so the original got sent back to the Cerritos.

 

[Quantum21]

I posted this in the Head-Canon thread in GTD, but it's actually a good thread for here.

Running with the idea that the Enterprise-F had multiple crews and multiple Captains, as per what Terry Matalas has said, I think Starfleet did this to keep the Enterprise crew from knee-capping Starfleet Officer's careers.

Take Riker, for instance. He stayed First Officer of the Enterprise-D and E for 15 years. If he'd accepted a promotion to Captain sooner (i.e. even before he joined the Enterprise), how many First Officers would've served under Picard? How many other careers would've been made because these up-and-coming officers got to be First Officer of the Flagship? But Riker stayed and stayed and stayed and locked others out of having that position. And why did he stay? In hopes that Picard would either retire, get promoted, or be killed, and then he'd become Captain. He wanted the Enterprise so badly, and made it so obvious, that Starfleet wasn't ever going to give it to him.

Then there's Picard. A Captain with decades of experience and unafraid to stand up to Admirals. If Starfleet had inexperienced Captains who were ambitious and wanted to become Admirals, they'd be far less likely to push back against those Admirals when or if they disagreed with them. By the end of his time as Captain, Picard had a ton more experience than a lot of the Admirals giving him orders. Starfleet probably wanted to avoid that with future Captains of the Enterprise. So, they didn't want experienced Captains, they didn't want to keep them there long, and they wanted Commanding Officers who were more on the same page with Starfleet Command. Shelby shot up through the ranks to the Admiralty, and someone like her probably saw the Enterprise-F as something that could be a stepping stone for future Captains and Admirals.

In my head-canon, Shelby was in command of the Enterprise-F during the ceremony in Picard, as the E-F was being decommissioned, because the last Captain had been promoted to Admiral and the First Officer had probably been given command of some other prestigious ship after having cut their teeth on the E-F. Shelby loved that the E-F with was anthesis of the E-D and the E-E. As an Admiral, she probably helped to guide the Enterprise-F in the opposite direction throughout its lifetime by having a major hand and influence in who captained it, as well as who was the XO, and for how long...

... then during the Celebration she gets killed by the Borg and her Interconnected Fleet is assimilated. Her over-ambition and her pushing back against the philosophy of the previous Enterprises being her Achilles Heel.

So the Enterprise-G becomes the true successor to the Enterprise-D and E. The Enterprise-G with Seven's crew are the crew that helped the Enterprise-D and Picard's crew save the Federation from Vadic and the Borg Queen....

... which will make the Enterprise-F the black sheep of the Enterprises.

What do you think? I think it gives the Enterprise-F some character (even if it goes against the grain of the others) instead just being a placeholder.

I've always felt...

Why the hell would Starfleet care about what career path officers chose, especially in this enlightened age where most shouldn't care about upward mobility as much.

I still feel Starfleet isn't fully military, and such questions of rank and command are looser than today.

 

[FederationHistorian]

Why re-christen the Titan as the Enterprise-G?

There are larger, more powerful classes of ships in the fleet (the Galaxy class, the Sovereign class, etc.). Why re-christen a Connie III?

It doesn’t really make sense, as there a story where the USS Titan under a Saavik captaincy was the flagship of Federation, over the Ent-B. meaning there’s precedence set.

Seems to me it would be easier to fix whatever is wrong with the Ent-F and keep it around for extremely important diplomatic missions and various ceremonies and celebration, while the Titan is the one doing all the exploring and is the Federation flagship.

The Enterprise had become a shuttle service for diplomats anyways during the era on the Ent-D. And the Ent-E was focused on diplomatic missions during the Dominion War. So keeping the Ent-F around for such purposes would make sense, regardless if it has lots of mileage on it or not.

The re-christening reeks of nostalgia for a different era, when things were “better.” And again, if the Titian under Saavik was the flagship during the years of the Ent-B, shouldn’t there be nostalgia for the early 2400s, as the cold war with the Klingons was finally over?

 

[Quantum21]

Proposal: Let's forget the Constitution IXXVIII*$&! Class ever happened and use the real Enterprise F instead