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"The Cloud Minders"

Qonundrum

Just graduated from Camp Ridiculous
Premium Member
(on edit: post title should have been: "The Cloud Minders - What a Gas!" )

I had completely forgotten Margaret Armen had to rewrite this story into a functional teleplay due to behind-the-scenes issues. I vaguely recall the original script had a much more downer ending. While it's still true that the story's conclusion is a bit pat and easy, it does retain Trek's hallmark of optimism - though Vanna is still certain nothing will improve.

And, of course, David Gerrold. It would be fascinating to read his original script with more dour ending. Especially since he's known for the comedy outing 'The Trouble with Tribbles'.

It's almost understandable that people are taken off-kilter when Spock freely tells Droxine about Vulcans' mating practices, given the claim that he preferred to risk death than to tell McCoy or Kirk because of "how personal" it was as exclaimed back then. The difference is, in "Amok Time", Spock was having to deal with the hormonal imbalance. In "Minders", he is not. Though at the same time, this is the 1960s and character development wasn't a thing. Going from season 2's opener to late season 3 to show Spock being freely discussing what makes him jolly is bizarre when there's been nothing to build him up between almost two seasons' worth of episodes, made when each episode was its own self-contained universe. Oh well, it's baby steps to arcing - Trek loosely pioneered it, I suppose.

On the other hand, what isn't understandable is how Spock does a captain's log stating they cannot contact the Captain without jeopardizing his life as a result. However, less than 30 lines of dialogue later, Kirk contacts the ship and Spock states how they've been trying to contact him.

Going back to Spock's libido, his chatting up Droxine with "Extreme feminine beauty is always disturbing, madam" is up for grabs, given that "Amok Time" tells of how Vulcans must do it every 7 years. (AT states only males have the pon farr urge, TCM states all Vulcans.) I am debating whether or not how much exposition-based reminding is needed, since Spock is repressing emotions all while trying to say "You're hawt" because of his Vulcan/Human differences. Or, more pertinently, the logic-vs-emotional. I still find it hard to believe that such a private ritual no outsiders know of is now tabloid fodder. Then again, maybe Spock noticed how Kirk is explaining lurve to every woman of the week and realized it's not a big thing because everybody does it. Again, ideally the story and fictional universe needs to do the setup and adherence. Making fans create canon becomes not only inconsistent, but sloppy after a while, nor are fans being paid to do the show's writers' work for them.

The Sentinels all wear mini kilts, not unlike TNG season 1 skant outfits. Nice to see Grace Lee Whitney's idea of using minis given to males, even if they're Stratos guards and not Federation blokes.

William Shatner and Charlene Polite steal the show in their various scenes together. Ditto for Jeff Corey. any scene involving any of them together - even if you dislike the rest of the episode, fast forward to when two of the three are on screen together. Or all three. Or when it's just Kirk, especially in the caves, but Kirk gets a lot of great commanding material.

It's easy to tell when a season 3 script is more than a bottle story since the actors exude a little more relish into their stories. Out of character or not, the big three are definitely enjoying the material and it's all lovely to watch.

Corey isn't quite at the sublime level that Frank Gorshin put in, though Corey didn't exactly have to battle against being typecast as Batman's Riddler either and Gorshin was superlative in that role. Corey's was an excellent performance, period.

Ditto for The Big Three regarding evolution, the effects of the gas, etc, on the bridge, and later in the transporter room. Indeed, McCoy makes a great comment about prejudice, which has much more positive effect than watching five times in a row "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield" as a drinking game. Indeed, noting numerous episodes where McCoy pokes glib fun at Spock's mannerisms if not the entire Vulcan race, but McCoy has never been prejudiced in action.

It's nice to feel like a high school freshman again: When Vanna boasted with pride they have "something more valuable to bargain with than than mortae and thongs" to Anka, I burst out laughing. But it's actually realism, there are different languages where the same word has a completely different meaning... More giggling ensured, earlier in the story, when Vanna sneaks into the guest accommodation and tries to kill Kirk. She's foiled, Kirk has her pinned in bed and makes double entenres about how much enjoyable it is (a sentiment she clearly does not reciprocate)... and yet the juvenile levity was minimal: In the story, there's otherwise zero dialogue or chemistry between Kirk and Vanna, which is unusual for Kirk-era TOS for Kirk not to chat up the lady of the week to teach her love then go run away back to the ship, makes the attempted assassination scene that much more out of place. On the plus side, the episode was quick to get on with itself instead of spending five minutes in typical Kirk fashion of having Kirk teach Vanna what luuuuuurve is all about. And remember kids, get to the clinic the next day... (eww, cooties)

Speaking of pride, it is illogical for Spock to say Vulcans have pride regarding their logic. It's the same logic that tells them of Kohlinar (the process of purging emotion, not the brand of kitchen and bathroom faucets...) now being propped up with emotion. Makes for a lovely irony.

Manny Coto, for the fourth season of "Enterprise", stated he wanted to use the planet and city - as a two-parter (Wikipedia). I can't blame him, the story tells of previous issues that led to the city being created but it's all superficial and it's a shame he didn't get a chance to. If only he were hired earlier. Anyway, in a show from the 1960s that didn't do character or situation arcs, apart from how Spock likes to get busy of course, "Minders" focused on the current situation and left the build-up as brief exposition. Does "Minders" really need a prequel to set up the situation Kirk and Spock stumble into? Only if a whole series were to be planned, perhaps. Which remains one question: The people of Stratos, on the surface or in the cloud city, are they all able to sustain a season's worth of material or more? Well, if anyone can watch Vanna walk across a stage and turn letters that light up on cue and make gobs more money than people who do real work then anything's possible. Oh, wait, wrong Vanna. Whoops.

But I now remember, Spock has a different form of exposition where, in a guest accommodation while Kirk sleeps elsewhere, Spock does a recap for the audience that presumably just tuned in late about the Stratos society and situation. He might mention his drooling for Droxine, but there's a certain poetry that almost seems to work. As a whole scene, however, it was very well done and was engaging to watch. Had there been a season 4, and more budget to do more episodes where they - you know - actually get to leave the ship and explore, I suspect Spock would have had more such scenes. If Armen is responsible for this scene, it all adds up and makes sense as she was slated to become script editor had the show continued.

Vanna and Droxine could have a grudge match featuring solely their eyelid make-up. It would end in a tie game.

But Droxine would easily win the "my earrings are so big that in five years my lobes stretch so far that they will carry me to far off lands with a single gust of wind" award.

Awesome transporter effect for Stratos.

Ditto for the handheld camerawork, whether it's for fight scenes or any other scene where they switch to handheld.

The fights themselves - there's great use of stuntdoubles, who are well-concealed. While the fighting early on in the episode is a little too stagey in feel, the fighting inside the sealed cave looks and feels authentic. Especially Kirk kicking Plassus' thong (snicker). Or was it a mortae?

Another serious topic in this episode is very low key. That of resorting to torture. Plassus is not wrong in reminding Kirk the time crunch involved (how far away is Ardana from Stratos, since the episode ends with 3 hours to spare?) Kirk is not wrong about the (lack of) humanitarian aspects of torture, but he also asks "Surely there are better methods than this" as opposed to offering better methods. It's impossible to be anti-Plassus on this issue. Kirk needed to provide a solution, noting he had for almost every other problem posited in this episode. Right down to the filters to combat a gas that, thankfully, wasn't anymore damaging than it was. (But the gas and its effects were sold plausibly.)

As usual, another hallmark of TOS is the use of color. There are some well-placed camera shots while on Statos, using Kirk and crew in the background and letting the blue marbled corridors and orange/red artwork frame the outer portions of the screen. Later scenes mix sumptuous hues of yellow, orange, teal, and others. They also must have worked with the costume department because it's not often when a character wears the same color as a background set. Quite often, the colors are designed as contrasts and it's a visual treat.

:luvlove::adore::luvlove: I luvs me that color wheel... :adore::luvlove::adore:
Modern TV shows are just so bland and I am not referring to TNG. TOS was an art form in so many ways, using not just wall paint but lighting to sell eye-popping scenes. Yes, color TV was new. But, yeah, the appearance - even if it's gray slats lit with different hued lights - still has a look that isn't busy but is engaging and compelling. The designers who worked with color definitely deserved awards for balancing so many hues in such a lively manner. Yes, I'm gushing, so there. :p:razz:

One slight nitpick (like what else is new): When we see the art sculpture punctured by the thong (snicker), it's the music that cues. The artwork and thong (snicker) are both the same colors, making the mining tool blend into the artwork too much. Had the tool been sullied with dirt or a different color than silver/gray with a bronze/gold-colored handle, the vandalism with corresponding threat music would have hit home a lot sooner.

All in all, it's another episode that's above average for season 3, having potential as a general Trek episode, but still feeling like they could have done a bit more with it. But knowing the original ending was a lot more dour and she rewrote it to get it to fit into Trek's mold more appropriately, and it still felt appropriate and authentic...

Season 3 TOS grading: A-
General TOS: B or B+
 
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I had completely forgotten Margaret Armen had to rewrite this story into a functional teleplay due to behind-the-scenes issues. I vaguely recall the original script had a much more downer ending...

And, of course, David Gerrold. It would be fascinating to read his original script with more dour ending. Especially since he's known for the comedy outing 'The Trouble with Tribbles'.

Oliver Crawford and David Gerrold didn't get to the script stage. They were cut-off after two story outlines (called "Castles in the Sky") and Armen was brought in to re-tool the story outline (which she called "Revolt") and later the teleplay (eventually changed to "The Cloud Minders," a title Armen suggested).
 
It's almost understandable that people are taken off-kilter when Spock freely tells Droxine about Vulcans' mating practices, given the claim that he preferred to risk death than to tell McCoy or Kirk because of "how personal" it was as exclaimed back then. The difference is, in "Amok Time", Spock was having to deal with the hormonal imbalance. In "Minders", he is not. Though at the same time, this is the 1960s and character development wasn't a thing. Going from season 2's opener to late season 3 to show Spock being freely discussing what makes him jolly is bizarre when there's been nothing to build him up between almost two seasons' worth of episodes, made when each episode was its own self-contained universe. Oh well, it's baby steps to arcing - Trek loosely pioneered it, I suppose.

I have to disagree. After "Amok Time", Spock slowly, but surely loosened up, whether it was one of many mocking statements or facial expressions to McCoy (e.g. "Friday's Child") to obvious sarcasm (his "mutiny" suggestion about Scotty & McCoy's intention in "The Gamesters of Triskelion"--which is significant thawing, since he was on trial for that crime over a year earlier in "The Menagerie") to needling Chekov on how small his jokes were, this is not the introverted Spock from early days, but one very comfortable around his shipmates--a good handful he sees as friends.

Going back to Spock's libido, his chatting up Droxine with "Extreme feminine beauty is always disturbing, madam" is up for grabs, given that "Amok Time" tells of how Vulcans must do it every 7 years. (AT states only males have the pon farr urge, TCM states all Vulcans.) I am debating whether or not how much exposition-based reminding is needed, since Spock is repressing emotions all while trying to say "You're hawt" because of his Vulcan/Human differences. Or, more pertinently, the logic-vs-emotional. I still find it hard to believe that such a private ritual no outsiders know of is now tabloid fodder.

Think of the real world; at one time, there were ancient Chinese rituals or beliefs that were not known to outsiders--in fact some resisted the idea of any outsider learning about their heritage at all (i have some extended family who still behave in this way), but as time wore on, some of those traditions/beliefs were exposed to people from other lands, hence the reason a person who is not from Chinese descent can refer to history or rituals. In this way, Droxine might have learned of certain Vulcan practices somewhere after the period of "Amok Time".

The Sentinels all wear mini kilts, not unlike TNG season 1 skant outfits.

Interesting costume design.typical innovative for TOS, unlike the bucket of silver paint poured on many a Lost in Space alien.

William Shatner and Charlene Polite steal the show in their various scenes together. Ditto for Jeff Corey. any scene involving any of them together - even if you dislike the rest of the episode, fast forward to when two of the three are on screen together. Or all three. Or when it's just Kirk, especially in the caves, but Kirk gets a lot of great commanding material.

Agreed. Shatner and Corey's theatrical natures along with the heated dialogue of class and race played off of each other well. Always a joy to see strong actors going full on in fantasy roles. That's uncommon in the history of fantasy TV and movies.

Ditto for The Big Three regarding evolution, the effects of the gas, etc, on the bridge, and later in the transporter room. Indeed, McCoy makes a great comment about prejudice, which has much more positive effect than watching five times in a row "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield" as a drinking game. Indeed, noting numerous episodes where McCoy pokes glib fun at Spock's mannerisms if not the entire Vulcan race, but McCoy has never been prejudiced in action.

True. Some ST fans accuse McCoy of being an outright racist, but that's not why he questions or tosses the occasional "bomb of observation" Spock's way. In fact, Spock's stream of often damning comments about humans move toward the lane of racist commentary more than trying to understand the differences of humanity.

More giggling ensured, earlier in the story, when Vanna sneaks into the guest accommodation and tries to kill Kirk. She's foiled, Kirk has her pinned in bed and makes double entenres about how much enjoyable it is (a sentiment she clearly does not reciprocate)

A Bond moment for Star Trek.

But I now remember, Spock has a different form of exposition where, in a guest accommodation while Kirk sleeps elsewhere, Spock does a recap for the audience that presumably just tuned in late about the Stratos society and situation. He might mention his drooling for Droxine, but there's a certain poetry that almost seems to work. As a whole scene, however, it was very well done and was engaging to watch. Had there been a season 4, and more budget to do more episodes where they - you know - actually get to leave the ship and explore, I suspect Spock would have had more such scenes. If Armen is responsible for this scene, it all adds up and makes sense as she was slated to become script editor had the show continued.

Yes--I enjoyed the narration and dissolving character shots. Rare for the series and effective.

Awesome transporter effect for Stratos.

...along with props (the Zenite containers), corridors, and unusual torture device. All were unique and did not reappear on the Enterprise set like other items created for alien worlds.

As usual, another hallmark of TOS is the use of color. There are some well-placed camera shots while on Statos, using Kirk and crew in the background and letting the blue marbled corridors and orange/red artwork frame the outer portions of the screen. Later scenes mix sumptuous hues of yellow, orange, teal, and others. They also must have worked with the costume department because it's not often when a character wears the same color as a background set. Quite often, the colors are designed as contrasts and it's a visual treat.
:luvlove::adore::luvlove: I luvs me that color wheel... :adore::luvlove::adore: Modern TV shows are just so bland and I am not referring to TNG. TOS was an art form in so many ways, using not just wall paint but lighting to sell eye-popping scenes. Yes, color TV was new. But, yeah, the appearance - even if it's gray slats lit with different hued lights - still has a look that isn't busy but is engaging and compelling. The designers who worked with color definitely deserved awards for balancing so many hues in such a lively manner. Yes, I'm gushing, so there. :p:razz:

Agreed. TOS took full advantage of the then, relatively new color TV option (as you point out), and the need to truly sell the otherworldly, instead of coming off like....well...Lost in Space.
 
I always use to think of this episode as being called The Cloud Miners for some reason and somehow it sounded better that way! What exactly are they minding in the clouds anyway? Their way of life and the riches earned for them by the Troglodytes down in the caves on the planet! Sounds like our world right now to me! Strange also that Charlene Polite (who played Vana) was once married to Ramon Bieri, a rather large actor who usually played a bent cop or bounty hunter in various police TV shows in the seventies! :shrug:
JB
 
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After "Amok Time", Spock slowly, but surely loosened up

...But how could it not be jarring to see Spock wooing a woman for the very first time in the show?

This is simply something we have never seen Spock do before. But we have no reason to think he doesn't engage in it frequently enough, as the opportunity arises. He comes from an extremely passionate species, after all, and is never suggested to have chosen the Starfleet life in order to "abstain" or "isolate" himself (he just wanted to spite his dad or something).

We simply finally find out how Spock goes about a date. And it fits: it's half wit, half single-endendres, just as one would expect from the split hero.

In this way, Droxine might have learned of certain Vulcan practices somewhere after the period of "Amok Time".

Then again, Droxine comes from a civilization of renowned intellectuals who are entitled to knowing stuff about the varied wonders of the Milky Way. Kirk... Does not.

"Jarring" is apt when both Kirk and the audience are for the first time taken to the sort of high society where Spock slips in naturally but none of us do.

Timo Saloniemi
 
It's almost understandable that people are taken off-kilter when Spock freely tells Droxine about Vulcans' mating practices, given the claim that he preferred to risk death than to tell McCoy or Kirk because of "how personal" it was as exclaimed back then.

He doesn't want to discuss it with Kirk or McCoy because a) he's embarrassingly in the throes of it and b) they're his friends and colleagues. He has to live and work with them daily and doesn't want to transfer. Discuss it with a beautiful girl he will never have to see again if he wants, in a manner that's more clinical than personal? A little easier.

Spock said:
It is a thing no out-worlder may know except those very few who have been involved.

Meaning Droxine is cool because he wants her to become involved/she already is involved, having "disturbed" him with her beauty?
 
I have to disagree. After "Amok Time", Spock slowly, but surely loosened up, whether it was one of many mocking statements or facial expressions to McCoy (e.g. "Friday's Child") to obvious sarcasm (his "mutiny" suggestion about Scotty & McCoy's intention in "The Gamesters of Triskelion"--which is significant thawing, since he was on trial for that crime over a year earlier in "The Menagerie") to needling Chekov on how small his jokes were, this is not the introverted Spock from early days, but one very comfortable around his shipmates--a good handful he sees as friends.

I hadn't thought of it that way - whether or not that was the episode's intent is a moot point and, yeah, with Spock noticing all species procreate, why is he in a bubble over something that's personal despite species doing it? Then again, how many people who have incurable STDs go around saying they're proud of having caught it freely?

"Friday's Child" - now there's an interesting tale. The only nitpick I remember from one of season 2's otherwise above average scripts is that the redshirt who dies after whipping out his tiny phaser looked a little too wordily offensive (not wordlessly defensive as Kirk complains to McCoy) and Kirk should have brought down a more experienced security officer (instead of brushing it all off to the guard being inexperienced) if McCoy was harping on the extreme nature of the Capellan society and to be careful.

Think of the real world; at one time, there were ancient Chinese rituals or beliefs that were not known to outsiders--in fact some resisted the idea of any outsider learning about their heritage at all (i have some extended family who still behave in this way), but as time wore on, some of those traditions/beliefs were exposed to people from other lands, hence the reason a person who is not from Chinese descent can refer to history or rituals. In this way, Droxine might have learned of certain Vulcan practices somewhere after the period of "Amok Time".

Ah, but unlike 99% of sci-fi, Earth has numerous disparate cultures that don't always share common themes. You still raise an excellent point about practices and beliefs getting exposed, and it's amazing Vulcan kept its naughty secrets so well-kept. Or nobody cared how various species have sex, since reproduction is inevitably how we're all here. But even Kirk pointed out dismissively that Spock isn't a fish.

And where would Droxine read up on the x-rated Vulcan rituals since Vulcan would be more tight-lipped than Spock ever was, especially given the talk of out-worlders. Vulcan seemed to remain private after "Amok Time". What McCoy and Kirk might say would be treated as tall stories. It's possible, since Stratos was part of the Federation and somewhere somehow it was decided to go populate the shieldless Memory Alpha library with "The Katra Sutra" or whatever...

Interesting costume design.typical innovative for TOS, unlike the bucket of silver paint poured on many a Lost in Space alien.

ROTFL, so very true. LiS really had a dismal budget and less faith put behind it than even the most dreary days in Trek season 3. Still has a few good episodes, though.

And equal opportunity. Not just women showing off the legs as empowerment. Though as I type this, I now wonder if the episode was mocking the idea (security guards = enforcement, empowerment.)

Agreed. Shatner and Corey's theatrical natures along with the heated dialogue of class and race played off of each other well. Always a joy to see strong actors going full on in fantasy roles. That's uncommon in the history of fantasy TV and movies.

^^this. :) It's what made television entertaining! Still does.

True. Some ST fans accuse McCoy of being an outright racist, but that's not why he questions or tosses the occasional "bomb of observation" Spock's way. In fact, Spock's stream of often damning comments about humans move toward the lane of racist commentary more than trying to understand the differences of humanity.

+1

I enjoyed the narration and dissolving character shots. Rare for the series and effective.

Season 3 had its ups and downs but the ups had so much more potential. I will always wonder what a season 4 would have been like, apart from a smaller budget and more bottle episodes.

...along with props (the Zenite containers), corridors, and unusual torture device. All were unique and did not reappear on the Enterprise set like other items created for alien worlds.

Yeah, the corridors. Usually one can spot the 6-sided door opening being in about 50 stories, but in this episode everything looked new. Or cleverly recycled. I'm thankful; a story showing potential deserved getting stuff looking less recycled. Especially this late in the season, "Minders" feels like a breath of fresh air at times.

Agreed. TOS took full advantage of the then, relatively new color TV option (as you point out), and the need to truly sell the otherworldly, instead of coming off like....well...Lost in Space.

(snicker) - yeah, LiS - for all it brought to the table - was very bland and repetitive for "monster scare o' the week". Even "The Anti-Matter Man" and other classics, which are good, feel as if they could have been stronger.

He doesn't want to discuss it with Kirk or McCoy because a) he's embarrassingly in the throes of it and b) they're his friends and colleagues. He has to live and work with them daily and doesn't want to transfer. Discuss it with a beautiful girl he will never have to see again if he wants, in a manner that's more clinical than personal? A little easier.

a) agreed
b) ditto.

Awesome and spot-on point and context about a person he'll never see again. And Spock did speak of it all very clinically.

Meaning Droxine is cool because he wants her to become involved/she already is involved, having "disturbed" him with her beauty?

She'd get bored waiting for his pon farr, though.

I always use to think of this episode as being called The Cloud Miners for some reason and somehow it sounded better that way! What exactly are they minding in the clouds anyway? Their way of life and the riches earned for them by the Troglodytes down in the caves on the planet! sounds like our world right now to me! Strange also that Charlene Polite (who played Vana) was once married to Ramon Bieri, a rather large actor who usually played a bent cop or bounty hunter in various police TV shows in the seventies! :shrug:
JB

If she likes large dudes, let me get my phone number and a time machine, I'm still of relatively compatible age... :D

...But how could it not be jarring to see Spock wooing a woman for the very first time in the show?

Aye, true. Regardless of circumstance, people would be taken off-kilter. Perhaps, and the idea just dawned on me, despite his fight in "Amok Time" driving away the primal urges, it was a temporary issue? Fighting someone dead doesn't take away that lovin' feeling, it's like making chocolate cake by putting ice cream into a veal processing machine.

This is simply something we have never seen Spock do before. But we have no reason to think he doesn't engage in it frequently enough, as the opportunity arises. He comes from an extremely passionate species, after all, and is never suggested to have chosen the Starfleet life in order to "abstain" or "isolate" himself (he just wanted to spite his dad or something).

True. Once pon farr hits, the passion is there and overwhelming.

We simply finally find out how Spock goes about a date. And it fits: it's half wit, half single-endendres, just as one would expect from the split hero.

+1

Then again, Droxine comes from a civilization of renowned intellectuals who are entitled to knowing stuff about the varied wonders of the Milky Way. Kirk... Does not.

*facepalm* I should have clicked that fact, much thanks for bringing it up!

"Jarring" is apt when both Kirk and the audience are for the first time taken to the sort of high society where Spock slips in naturally but none of us do.

Timo Saloniemi

Ditto. (emphasis added) It is starting to make sense along those lines, which fit seamlessly in.
 
Another serious topic in this episode is very low key. That of resorting to torture. Plassus is not wrong in reminding Kirk the time crunch involved (how far away is Ardana from Stratos, since the episode ends with 3 hours to spare?) Kirk is not wrong about the (lack of) humanitarian aspects of torture, but he also asks "Surely there are better methods than this" as opposed to offering better methods. It's impossible to be anti-Plassus on this issue. Kirk needed to provide a solution, noting he had for almost every other problem posited in this episode.
Such as a Vulcan mind meld?
 
The main program I have with the episode is the awkward 'romance' between Spock and Droxine.
I even admit on paper it looks good - ambassador's son with planetary leader's sophisticated daughter. Its just that Droxine was so awful. Not to look at of course. But just a spoiled princess who looks down on the underlings.
No matter how much Spock has mellowed out in Season 3 I can't see him interested in Droxine at all.
 
It was my understanding that the digging tools were Mortae, and the thongs were the leathern ropes the Troglytes (no -od- ) had. After all, Plasus asked Kirk if he wanted to fight with them, calling them Mortae.
 
how far away is Ardana from Stratos, since the episode ends with 3 hours to spare?

Cutie, great post. I really like this episode because it feels so different than many others.

One thing regarding the above: I think Ardana is the planet that Stratos is on, while the plague is on . . . I really am going to try this from memory without checking the transcript, I swear . . . Merek II?? I'll check that later.

Good call about the narration scene with Spock musing while Kirk rests. It's unusual to see episodes with "rest intervals," as they might call them on Triskelion. Very effective in making the story feel denser and more realistic.

Speaking of Merek or whatever, once again someone in S3 really had epidemics on the brain. This one, Battlefield, Mark of Gideon, Requiem, That Which Survives . . . the list goes on and on.

The Stratos transporter effect is awesome. They did such a good job of conveying an advanced society that was part of the Federation but very much distinct. And did anyone ever wonder which UFP bureaucrat approved Ardana's admission? Seems as though they left a few key things out of their application.

Kirk's anti-torture speech is awesome.

I think Vana was the more attractive of the two women in this episode!
JB

Nooooooo. Of course it's all just opinion.
 
I can appreciate your tastes, Phase, but Vana just rocked! :techman:
JB

True. They both did. They were very different in every way and the casting folks did a nice job selecting two different types to play them. One of the nice worldbuilding touches that I liked in the ep came when we learned that Droxine and Vanna knew each other.
 
Everyone is different! One man's meat and all that! Apart from the obvious, I didn't find Droxine to be as attractive as Vana my old friend! Not sure why, maybe Vana looked more foxy perhaps?
JB
 
I think Vana was the more attractive of the two women in this episode!
JB
By far.
This whole episode is bizarre. I just don't buy it that Spock loosened up about his sexuality enough to go about flirting with Droxine. It's a strange leap for me to make.
 
By far.
This whole episode is bizarre. I just don't buy it that Spock loosened up about his sexuality enough to go about flirting with Droxine. It's a strange leap for me to make.

But does that ruin the whole episode for you? Just asking because a lot of people's reactions to this one seem to stop and end with "Spock shouldn't have been interested in Droxine." The two have maybe three to four minutes of screen time together and there is a ton more going on.
 
But does that ruin the whole episode for you? Just asking because a lot of people's reactions to this one seem to stop and end with "Spock shouldn't have been interested in Droxine." The two have maybe three to four minutes of screen time together and there is a ton more going on.

I always struggle with people who can't get their heads wrapped around a character's actions which seem surprising to them.

The character DID what they did. People do it in life every single day. It's amazing how unpredictable and "out of character" real live people can be. Spock in particular is a very unpredictable fictional character and always has been.

So to your point, this minor element never took me out of the story.
 
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