Superman 2 theatrical vs Richard Donner Cut

[crookeddy]

I finally watched the Richard Donner cut of Superman 2 and liked it infinitely more than the goofy Richard Lester version. It was a far more modern movie, it flowed way better with the first one and weirdly the acting in it seemed so much better! I feel like the Lester version made the decision that Superman cannot be in a serious movie, and went the camp route, while Richard Donner had a bit more respect for the character and tried to put him into something resembling the real world.

Now, this movie still had goofy and nonsensical moments, but for an 80s superhero movie it felt strangely... modern. I saw a lot of Zack Snyder's ideas in this movie - especially in Superman's self doubt when giving up his powers. His reasoning for giving his powers up ("why can't I live the same life as everyone else") is something that I wouldn't be surprised to hear from Henry Cavill's Superman.

Overall, I see the Richard Donner cut as the definitive version of the movie now, and Superman Returns is a (shitty) sequel to this particular movie.

 

[Commander Richard]

Here are some of my thoughts on the matter...

I finally got around to seeing this and I didn't think it was an improvement over the original.

What I didn't like…

- It felt rushed for some reason and it didn't feel as grand or as epic as the first. Reminds me of Men in Black II which people jokingly call "Men in Black 1.5". Some people online suggest that maybe it was because this cut was made from a lot of a lot of unfinished material. That fact wasn't noticeable since it was edited well, but it was clear that something was missing, making the movie feel "off" and a lot smaller in scope.

- I miss the Paris scenes.

- They undid everything with time travel again. I can't believe they did that. This alone is enough to sink the movie.

- Clark going after that trucker in the diner at the end seemed mean since time was turned back. I suppose you could argue though, that the trucker was a mean bastard anyway and had it coming.

- Not so much a dislike, but did Superman just leave Lex in the fortress when he destroyed it?

What I did like…

- The inclusion of Jor El.

- I quite enjoyed seeing Lois figure out that Clark was Superman. That part unfolded better in this cut.

- Lois in a Superman nightshirt.

- I liked seeing Clark get his powers back. It was a little more than just a handwave here.

In the end, I prefer the original cut for feeling bigger and more like a complete movie. Ideally though, it might be nice to see a cut that includes the best of both. Paris, Jor El, seeing Clark getting his powers back, Lois figuring things out Donner-style and no turning back time.

 

[crookeddy]

The explanation for the time travel is that Donner's vision was to have time travel be the ending for Superman 2. However, they had no ending in mind for Superman 1, and just decided to use time travel there instead. This had the side effect of having Superman 2 left without an ending, and they failed to come up with anything better than the mind wiping super kiss. Since the purpose of the Donner cut was to try to show the movie Donner originally had in mind, they chose to go with the original time travel ending even though it was very repetitive.

I think the movie felt incomplete because it was incomplete - it conveyed Donner's original vision, but since he couldn't go back in time himself to actually film his vision he had a lot of blanks to fill in. I have a feeling that if we actually had Richard Donner direct Superman 2 in full we would have gotten a far superior movie to either cut.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

The only thing about the theatrical cut that I like better than the Donner version is Superman's line to General Zod: "General, would you care to step outside?"

In the Donner Cut, it's replaced with something like "Haven't you ever heard about freedom of the press?" Which, while a fine sentiment, is nowhere near the level of the theatrical version of the scene.

 

[kirk55555]

I like both cuts, but the Donner cut is better in my opinion. Outside of the reused ending, it did pretty much everything better, especially removing the really stupid gag bits.

 

[Saul]

I love the Donner Cut. I grew up with the original cut though, gags and all. There are some parts I miss but overall the Donner version is a stronger sequel. What we really need is an ultimate cut of Superman and Superman II to give his vision a little more justice.

 

[Samurai8472]

I'll take the theatrical cut just because it's a finished product

Using test footage just looked weird. I understand it's all they had to work with but still looked weird.

 

[Tosk]

I have a love/hate relationship with both versions.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

What do the actors think?

 

[Owain Taggart]

I remember seeing the Donner cut with a friend when it was released, and I remember being quite disappointed. It might be my nostalgia talking, but I'm glad we got the camp in theatrical cut as I think that's what was needed at the time.

 

[Galileo7]

Director Richard Donner was not allowed to finish Superman 2 and I am glad to see the completion of his vision in this cut.

 

[crookeddy]

What do the actors think?

I don't think we'll ever get their real opinions, since they won't want to risk burning any bridges.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ WHAT bridges? It's not like any of the surviving Superman actors are going to do any roles like this again. And even if they did - for example, if Margot Kidder wanted to appear on Supergirl - that's a different producer, writer, etc.? So even if one of the film actors pissed off somebody who was involved in making the movies, it wouldn't affect their ability to star in future, unrelated Supes material.

Besides, how can it be "burning bridges" simply to state which version of the film they prefer?

 

[The Old Mixer]

Wasn't Margot Kidder's reduced role in Superman III because of her objection to how Donner was treated over Superman II?

but I'm glad we got the camp in theatrical cut as I think that's what was needed at the time.

So it was the Superman II that we needed...but not the one that we deserved...or something like that....

 

[Nightowl1701]

Wasn't Margot Kidder's reduced role in Superman III because of her objection to how Donner was treated over Superman II?

According to her, the Salkinds would have fired her outright if they thought they could have gotten away with it, and she'd have been glad to go. According to Ilya Salkind, the Clark/Lois relationship was done by the end of II anyway so she was hardly needed, while the Clark/Lana relationship was all set up in I (the high school football scene) and ready to be used.

Besides, how can it be "burning bridges" simply to state which version of the film they prefer?

Hackman, Perrine and Beatty all refused to return to finish Superman II with Lester, forcing the use of a Hackman soundalike to paper over the holes. Kidder - see above. Reeve initially refused to do Superman III after II wrapped, and the Salkinds were reportedly on the verge of putting Tony Danza in the suit before Lester personally begged him to come back (offering script changes as incentive). Brando was paid in full either way and couldn't have cared less. So... draw your own conclusions.

 

[The Old Mixer]

they were reportedly on the verge of putting Tony Danza in the suit

I need an amnesia kiss, stat!

 

[Nightowl1701]

^ He was actually the third runner-up. Both John Travolta and Kurt Russell had been approached and said no.

 

[Owain Taggart]

So it was the Superman II that we needed...but not the one that we deserved...or something like that....

Maybe. But I think it's easy to look back on it after seeing the Donner cut and say that it's what it should have been. I think the Superman II that we got felt very in tune with the 80's and its values. A slightly more serious take maybe wouldn't have been as well received with audiences given how well received the original was. Remember, we're seeing this after being exposed to a number of darker takes on superheros, a context that audiences didn't have back then. We were exposed to reruns of the 60's Batman series, and I believe these Superman movies were made to reflect the comics of the day.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

One thing I like better about the Donner cut:

- I really like how it's the Hackensack missile that frees Zod and his cohorts. The whole Paris subplot was lame.


One thing I like better about the Lester cut:

- I like the scenes in the Honeymoon Suite better in this version.

 

[Tosk]

I really like how it's the Hackensack missile that frees Zod and his cohorts.

Just a pity it looks more like a quickly cobbled together fan edit than a professional release.