Starship Troopers (1997) is coming back to Theaters...

[Sci]

I love the film, even though it's a dumbed down bastardisation of the book. There's no way we'll ever get a true adaptation from Hollywood. It would be way too controversial for anybody in the liberal media to touch it. Paul Verhoven was accused of making a fascist film by the media when he made his version. Even though it's fucking obviously a spoof of the novel that holds it in contempt. He has Neil Patrick Harris dress like a Nazi!

Indeed, Verhoeven -- who lived through the Nazi occupation of the Netherlands as a child -- said in the documentary series The Story of Film that his initial inspiration was to do a movie about young men in the 1930s who decide to join the military and come of age and grow into men... in the service of the Third Reich -- a critique of gung-ho film jingoism.

His Starship Troopers film is essence an argument about what kind of society the Terran Federation would be -- less an adaptation than a commentary.

Though I don't agree that a straight adaptation would never find purchase. From what I understand, the various "sequels" to Verhoeven's film lack its sense of self-awareness and satire.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

If Verhoeven really did live through Nazi occupation, he's got some nerve calling the military fascists. Without those soldiers, his homeland (and probably the whole world) would STILL be under the Nazis.

And like I said, under the system propounded in the book, no one is disenfranchised. The military must, by law, accept absolutely everyone who signs up, without question. They are forbidden from rejecting even the most grossly incompetent applicant. So therefore, if everyone can serve, and everyone who serves can vote, then by definition, everyone can vote. No disenfranchisement.

As for those who choose not to serve: They are not lacking in rights. (Rico's family, for instance, are very well off, and yet they level some serious criticisms against the military. No one's carting them off to death camps, are they?)

 

[Thestral]

^^ Why put sequels in quotes there? Direct to DVD or not, they're still sequels.

I never much cared for the movie, to be honest. Cheesy schlock, and the satire was laid on way too thick to the point that I thought at first it had crossed back into serious territory without being self-aware. Though admittedly I haven't seen it in about 10 years and certainly had no idea who Paul Verhoeven was.

Also, no power armor. Serious, satire, or whatever, there's not nearly enough sci-fi movies with power armor.

That said, I liked the AOL Online/Gamestorm video game that it spawned back in the day. And the soundtrack.

 

[Trekker4747]

I was actually AT the live show in Nashville when the guys performed. Good time!

 

[Melakon]

Last month I realized that of all my 30 dvds, Starship Troopers was the only one with nudity in it. So I then got Showgirls.

 

[Sci]

If Verhoeven really did live through Nazi occupation,

He was born in Amsterdam in 1938. Nazi Germany invaded and occupied the Netherlands two years later. It is a matter of historical fact that Verhoeven really did live through Nazi occupation.

he's got some nerve calling the military fascists. Without those soldiers, his homeland (and probably the whole world) would STILL be under the Nazis.

As the kids are saying these days on the Twitter Machine: Hashtag MissingThePoint.

Verhoeven is not arguing that "the military" are fascists. He is arguing that a military-dominated society would inevitably embrace militarism and authoritarianism, eventually leading to fascism.

And like I said, under the system propounded in the book, no one is disenfranchised.

Sure. And under Jim Crow, everyone was separate but equal.

I'm sure that this is true of the version of the Terran Federation depicted in Heinlein's book. But that's because the book is fiction, and thus does not have to be plausible. What Verhoeven is arguing is that such a society would not realistically behave as Heinlein depicts, but would instead degenerate into militarism and fascism.

As for those who choose not to serve: They are not lacking in rights. (Rico's family, for instance, are very well off, and yet they level some serious criticisms against the military. No one's carting them off to death camps, are they?)

This is, again, completely unrealistic. You need only look at the experiences of, say, those convicted felons in the United States who are denied the right to vote, and who suffer all sorts of other oppressions as a result of this disenfranchisement, to realize that one cannot slice off one right without cutting off others.

 

[DalekJim]

I find it refreshing reading a science-fiction book that paints the military in a positive light, and broadly agree with Heinlein that those that put their life on the line for society should have more of a say in how things are run than people who contribute nothing. My military obsession has grown significantly since my embarrassing liberal teen years, and I'd be in the army now were it not for my sucky health.

I disagree with the novel on a lot of elements, notably public capital punishment, but many elements of it are attractive and those that aren't are challenging. I like literature to be challenging.

 

[Lindley]

I find it refreshing reading a science-fiction book that paints the military in a positive light

There are plenty. Pretty much anything by David Weber or John Ringo, for starters.

Well, to be fair they usually show a mix of competent and incompetent military characters.

 

[marillion]

I was actually AT the live show in Nashville when the guys performed. Good time!

Wow.. Jealous!!... How did the Gorilla-Grams play to the live audience?

And just a word about the sequels.... ST:2 comes off as a very generic movie with no real connection to the spirit or story telling of the original... Part of the charm about the first movie was the way it wove in the propaganda "Would you like to know more?" elements... ST:3, with Casper's influence tried to do that and recapture the spirit, but it got bogged down by lack of buget, less than stellar script and the desert walking sequence that seemed to go on forever..

There is the newish animated movie that came out last year (I think), but I haven't seen it yet...

 

[Sci]

I find it refreshing reading a science-fiction book that paints the military in a positive light, and broadly agree with Heinlein that those that put their life on the line for society should have more of a say in how things are run than people who contribute nothing.

No. No one has the right to rank anyone else's worth as a human being. Democracy is the only legitimate form of government, and the only legitimate form of democracy is, "One person, one vote, universal adult suffrage."

No one has the right to decide that someone else "contributes nothing," and no one has the right to decide that someone else should have more of a vote than others. Anything like that is tyranny.

 

[Lindley]

I find it refreshing reading a science-fiction book that paints the military in a positive light, and broadly agree with Heinlein that those that put their life on the line for society should have more of a say in how things are run than people who contribute nothing.

No. No one has the right to rank anyone else's worth as a human being. Democracy is the only legitimate form of government, and the only legitimate form of democracy is, "One person, one vote, universal adult suffrage."

No one has the right to decide that someone else "contributes nothing," and no one has the right to decide that someone else should have more of a vote than others. Anything like that is tyranny.

Even *if* I agreed that service entitled one to more of a vote, "putting one's life on the line" is hardly the appropriate criteria. Is the soldier who fires a gun worth more than the worker who built it or the engineer who designed it? All three were required for that gun to be pointed at a (presumed) enemy and fired.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

My favorite quote in the whole film, unsurprisingly, comes from Michael Ironside:

"I expect the best...and I GIVE THE BEST! Here's the beer! Here's the entertainment! Have fun...that's an order!"

 

[Trekker4747]

I was actually AT the live show in Nashville when the guys performed. Good time!

Wow.. Jealous!!... How did the Gorilla-Grams play to the live audience?

Got laughs, but the movie was still on screen so the "Gorilla-Grams" were just for everyone else out there, we still got to see the horrors of a shower and some mild fondling of boobies.

 

[DalekJim]

Democracy is the only legitimate form of government

I strongly disagree, as does history.

And I'll leave it at that . My political beliefs aren't very fashionable.

My favorite quote in the whole film, unsurprisingly, comes from Michael Ironside:

"I expect the best...and I GIVE THE BEST! Here's the beer! Here's the entertainment! Have fun...that's an order!"

That guy is great in everything.

 

[Melakon]

I always look forward to Michael Ironside's work. The first time I saw him in a movie theater was when he made a guy's head explode in Scanners. People in the audience screamed.

 

[DalekJim]

I heard rumours a while back that they were making a film that resembled the novel more respectfully, but there's been no further word for a few years now. It still happening?

In a post-Halo world I'd imagine space marines in power suits would be an easy sell for the general public. Without the intense moral discussions though, the meat of the novel is missing.

 

[Demiurge]

I can't respect Voerhoeven's take for the same reason I can't respect Moorcoock's critique of the book - neither of them ever actually read it, and admit so.

If you want to satirize the book, call it something else. No one is bent out of shape over Galaxy Quest. But I'll always show my disgust of that work because I went expecting the book, and instead got something that was intentionally attacking it.

Last I heard the live action version that took the book seriously was on hold. We'll probably never see it.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I can't respect Voerhoeven's take for the same reason I can't respect Moorcoock's critique of the book - neither of them ever actually read it, and admit so.

Exactly. Criticize the novel however you like; but, IMHO, anyone who hasn't even fucking READ the thing should not presume to slam it.

As much as I disagree with how Verhoeven made his film, and how everyone else here hates the novel, I gotta ask: Why should Verhoeven claim that he knows so much about the novel, and the points expressed in it, if he hasn't even read it? Of course he can make whatever film he wants, but if he doesn't know what the novel really says, how can he criticize it?

 

[marillion]

^^ Cliff's Notes?

 

[Sindatur]

I can't respect Voerhoeven's take for the same reason I can't respect Moorcoock's critique of the book - neither of them ever actually read it, and admit so.

Exactly. Criticize the novel however you like; but, IMHO, anyone who hasn't even fucking READ the thing should not presume to slam it.

As much as I disagree with how Verhoeven made his film, and how everyone else here hates the novel, I gotta ask: Why should Verhoeven claim that he knows so much about the novel, and the points expressed in it, if he hasn't even read it? Of course he can make whatever film he wants, but if he doesn't know what the novel really says, how can he criticize it?

Did Verhoeven write the script or guide the writing of the script? Oftentimes, a Director or Producer is hired and a script is already underway, and they just make a movie out of a script they have little influence over. Or, maybe he read a reveiw, a Wikipedia page or as Marillion says, Cleff Notes and had a general idea what the book was about and hired a writer who was familiar with the book, and gave that writer certain instructions for the tone he wanted to portray. Movies are rarely under a single person's total control.