Spoilers Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Grading & Discussion

[LJones41]

Why did they include Admiral Ackbar in this story in the first place? And what happened to the Resistance characters from "The Force Awakens" that were portrayed by the likes of Greg Grunberg, Ken Leung and Harriet Walter? And if the Resistance was this small, where was Vice-Admiral Holdo in the 2015 movie? Especially since she was the second highest ranking leader of the Resistance?

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Why did they include Admiral Ackbar in this story in the first place? And what happened to the Resistance characters from "The Force Awakens" that were portrayed by the likes of Greg Grunberg, Ken Leung and Harriet Walter?

And Jessica Henwick.

There's been some speculation that Grunberg's and Henwick's characters (both pilots) were "conveniently" on a side mission during the events of The Last Jedi. Or it's possible, as disappointing as that might be, that they died off-screen during these events, just as Holdo was obviously involved during The Force Awakens but we simply didn't see her.

 

[theenglish]

There were supporters, many either writing fanfic, or producing artwork showing the two together, but unlike the completely self-generated fantasies of Rey/Poe or Rey/Ren, the film (TFA) laid out the source of the Finn/Rey shipping.

I thought TFA did more to support the possibility of a Finn/Dameron relationship. Even TLJ seems to support this. Finn did nothing to lead Rose on so it is possible his relationship could go either way.

As for Finn/Rey, I never got the impression that they were more than close friends.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

I thought TFA did more to support the possibility of a Finn/Dameron relationship. Even TLJ seems to support this. Finn did nothing to lead Rose on so it is possible his relationship could go either way.

As for Finn/Rey, I never got the impression that they were more than close friends.

Finn and Poe seem like two guys who never had a true, human male friend until they met each other. As for Rose, there's just noting there. Its as one-sided as Bucky trying to flirt with Peggy Carter in Captain America: The First Avenger: whatever was projected had nowhere to go because the object of desire simply did not--and would not see the hopeful person that way.

In the case of Rey and Finn, they naturally behaved around each other in a way that was inching toward a feeling deeper than basic friendship. Even as TLJ placed Rose in the film to stop this from happening, certain bits of dialogue survived--specifically, Rey's request of Chewbacca to give her message to Finn, which the Wookie understood before she finished it. Clearly, Rey already accepts the idea that Finn is her friend, and this scene happens as Rey is about to deliver herself to Ren/Snoke (possibly a suicide mission), so even without on-screen subtitles, one can sense that Rey (based on her connection to Finn in TFA) is laying out all of her feelings about him. Add the look of rejection on her face as Finn tends to Rose, and that does not read as Rey thinking she's only lost a friend.

 

[fireproof78]

Add the look of rejection on her face as Finn tends to Rose, and that does not read as Rey thinking she's only lost a friend.

I did not read that as such, and given that Luke just died, there are more emotions that will be running inside Rey than "Ah, man! He's moved on."

It's a lot more complex than just romantic subplot. And, it's nice to have multiple females in the SW trilogy rather than just one that the two male leads joke over getting with.

 

[Trekker4747]

I'm mad Luke didn't give a porg or those weird alien seal nuns a hug before dying.

 

[Shaka Zulu]

If you want video games to be considered an art form, you’re going to have to accept criticism are part and parcel of that. And by ‘accept’ I mean ‘don’t dox, harass, pry into people’s sex lives, and send bomb threats.’ At least.

The anti-Gamergaters have also done this, too; both need to stop doing it. And the 'criticism' is just prudish bullshit and misunderstanding of certain video games (case in point, Sarkesian's take on a scene in one of the Hitman games was wrong; the main character in the game wasn't trying to ogle the women-or use them as human shields-but get away from the antagonist's henchmen by not being noticed.)

I’m also having a laugh because ‘be the change you want to see’ is exactly what Kylo tried to pitch to Rey.

Kylo: If you don’t like the way the universe is Rey, it really is best that you become an all powerful dictator by my side.
Rey: There’s like, a million better options man. Just because I can tell my roof is leaking, doesn’t mean my best options are ‘silently put up with it’ or ‘personally build a new house with my bare hands’. Plus, this whole little movement you’ve got going here was started on the basis of, you know...propagating genocide and the forces of pure evil. So I really don’t think it’s possible for its possible for this little shit show to enact a ‘fresh start’ with that being it’s founding ideologies. Sane and decent people certainly won’t be willing to associate with it-
Kylo: *tries to cut her in half with a sword*​

Actually, no it isn't, and if she and others like her want to see change, they know what to do.
​

Actually, whilst we’re on the subject of dealing with critics, knock it off the with constant ‘they’re only complaining because they cling to the EU.’ It’s presumptuous, to put it mildly. Most of them haven’t even mentioned the EU.

They don't have to mention the EU/Legends, but it's clear by their reaction to TFA and TLJ that they expected to see it, and they were disappointed when said creators decided to do said new movies without consulting them (a lot like Trekfans regarding the Kelvinverse movies.)

 

[WarpFactorZ]

And what happened to the Resistance characters from "The Force Awakens" that were portrayed by the likes of Greg Grunberg, Ken Leung and Harriet Walter?

Since Abrams is directing IX, you can be sure that at least Grunberg will be back.

 

[Ithekro]

Vice Admiral Holdo was in command of one of the other ships. She transferred over after Akbar's death and her ship's fuel running out. As to why the Resistance has so many Admirals? Leia was trying to find anyone to help her, and some old Rebellion leaders followed her into the Resistance...including some Republic Admirals or retired Admirals like Akbar.

I'd half expect Episode IX to have the surviving member of the Ghost crew showing up under General Hera Syndulla. With BB-8 trying to deal with the very old and very cranky Chopper, while R2-D2 just sighs like he's rolling his eye.

 

[Trekkin]

The anti-Gamergaters have also done this, too; both need to stop doing it. And the 'criticism' is just prudish bullshit and misunderstanding of certain video games (case in point, Sarkesian's take on a scene in one of the Hitman games was wrong; the main character in the game wasn't trying to ogle the women-or use them as human shields-but get away from the antagonist's henchmen by not being noticed.)

​

I can’t imagine why anyone who is supposably really, really only worried about ‘Ethics in journalism’ with no other ulterior motives (honest!), would decide to randomly start an (two!) unprompted bitching session about Anita Sarkeesian.

Who is not a journalist. And never was.

It’s a downright mystery, that’s what it is.

Actually, no it isn't, and if she and others like her want to see change, they know what to do.

Oh, well now I’m convinced.

I mean, you said ‘no it’s not.’ What point could possibly stand against such a deep and thorough deconstruction?

Especially when you resort to just copy+pasting something you’ve already said, with no acknowledgement of it having been addressed. A masterful debating tatctic, that one.

They don't have to mention the EU/Legends, but it's clear by their reaction to TFA and TLJ that they expected to see it, and they were disappointed when said creators decided to do said new movies without consulting them (a lot like Trekfans regarding the Kelvinverse movies.)

People don’t have to read a bunch of mostly-crappy niche novels, to form expectations.

Imagination, and pattern recognition. Most people have them.

 

[Campe]

Saw the film again a second time yesterday, this time in IMAX. Sadly the sound was very crackly for some odd reason. A little distracting, and reminded me of going to theaters in the 80s. But I do have to say that seeing it again did really solidify the film for me even if I didn't hate it the first time. I don't think anything is really wasted here. Much is explained, and even Holdo explains exactly why she does what she does to Poe. I missed it the first time around. And even Canto Bight was a little better for me. I still do understand that some fans are truly distraught with what they saw, but if you can give the film a second chance with an open mind, I'd recommend seeing it again. You might be surprised.

 

[Booji]

I'd half expect Episode IX to have the surviving member of the Ghost crew showing up under General Hera Syndulla. With BB-8 trying to deal with the very old and very cranky Chopper, while R2-D2 just sighs like he's rolling his eye.

That would be frickin awesome

 

[TremblingBluStar]

Why did they include Admiral Ackbar in this story in the first place? And what happened to the Resistance characters from "The Force Awakens" that were portrayed by the likes of Greg Grunberg, Ken Leung and Harriet Walter? And if the Resistance was this small, where was Vice-Admiral Holdo in the 2015 movie? Especially since she was the second highest ranking leader of the Resistance?

I'm guessing they were buried with the entire Resistance planet they spent the last act of TFA saving from Starkiller base.

 

[CaptainMurdock]

I liked it. It had some flaws but it was okay. I liked TFA and RO better but I thought TLJ was solid. Loved the props and set designs.

 

[{ Emilia }]

And the 'criticism' is just prudish bullshit and misunderstanding of certain video games

Nonsense.
Some intellectual honesty would serve the gamergators well. Gaming can be a very toxic environment for women and the very valid points of criticism of misogynist tropes in video games can't be reduced to "prudish bullshit" if you want to be taken seriously in a debate.

 

[JD]

Video games and comics are probably two of the biggest sources of misogyny and sexism in entertainment industry. They've improved quite a bit lately, but it's still there, both in the media itself, the companies producing the content, and the fandoms surrounding them.

 

[Bandini]

What a lazy movie ...

 

[fireproof78]

Nonsense.
Some intellectual honesty would serve the gamergators well. Gaming can be a very toxic environment for women and the very valid points of criticism of misogynist tropes in video games can't be reduced to "prudish bullshit" if you want to be taken seriously in a debate.

Yeah, it's ridiculous how toxic it is. I follow one gamer in YT and she deals with so much negative commentary in her chat section.

Video games and comics are probably two of the biggest sources of misogyny and sexism in entertainment industry. They've improved quite a bit lately, but it's still there, both in the media itself, the companies producing the content, and the fandoms surrounding them.

Yeah, they've got a lot of history to overcome and I'm not holding my breath on this one. I've pretty much given up on comics, and nearly the same with video games.

 

[JD]

I think both are slowly starting to improve, but there's still a lot of work to be done.

 

[TremblingBluStar]

Video games and comics are probably two of the biggest sources of misogyny and sexism in entertainment industry.

No, that would be Romantic Comedies, romance novels, and glamour magazines. Video games and comics have some of the strongest, most progressive female characters to exist in media. Anybody who claims they are a source if misogyny either doesn't know much about them, or has a very strange definition of misogyny.

Anyway, how did a SW thread turn into one about an unrelated controversy from 2014?