Spoilers Star Trek: Prodigy 1x04 - "Dream Catcher"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
I know the Tellarite structure remained... but that could have been real (as could have the Proto engine been) - the only thing INSIDE the Tellarite structure which was gone was basically the food when Rok, Dal and Zero showed up.
When Dal and Zero rescued Rok, they only saw the vines... they hadn't participated in her illusion.
When Dal snapped out, he only saw the vines from his illusion.
So those who 'snapped out' didn't seem to share the illusion of others... and if both the Proto engine and the Tellarite structure wer illusions, I think they would have turned into pure vines... but both the engine and the structure remained.
So, I suspect a few things on that planet we saw were in fact real... and if the Proto engine and Tellarite structure are indeed real, the Thoron emissions could have been coming from the 'Proto Core'.
Or, the emissions were coming from something else.
I guess we'll see this week... unless its a 3 parter.
why would it be real?!
My impression was that only the illusions that got close enough to their victims and captivated them the most eventually turned to vines.
There's still elevated Thoron emissions which Janeway mentioned when first briefing the kids on the Hirogen system that hadn't been addressed.
I don't think that Thoron emissions are naturally produced in Trek... which could be connected to the Proto engine and Tellarite structure in some way.
I suspect that this will be covered in this week's episode., but I could be wrong about the engine and structure
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I'm not. I don't even grade based on other episodes of the same show. My grade is a purely emotional one based on my personal enjoyment of the specific episode. No comparisons.
You tried it and it's not for you. No big deal.
At least you gave it a shot.
I'm thinking the spores don't need to infect you to connect to your mind, they just need to get close enough to link up telepathically. Landing on your space suit a couple inches away from your brain is apparently sufficient for Zero and Jankom Pog. Using spores are way more subtle than giant vines when trying to get in range.
How do they know there are spores anyway? Did we see anything like that?
If it's not for you it is not for you. For starters, I would not put Prodigy up against DS9 or the penultimate episodes of any of the franchise because that is not the purpose of the show. The show is in a different class of Trek because it's target audience is far different. The fact that adults are enjoying it doesn't change the target demographic.
So, if I were to rate it an 8/10 that would not be a comparison to a TNG episode I would rate 8/10. There is simply no comparison for my scaling, because different shows tried different things. It would be the most uneven, unfair, comparison game.
Mileage will vary.
The Vines are some kind of physical substance that the planet manipulates.
That makes it possible for it to assume any physical shape it interprets from its victims minds.
At that point, it creates whatever other illusion of reality is also necessary for the victim to be fooled.
So even though the physical forms remain after the individual "awakens" it just gets reabsorbed eventually.
The Thoron emissions are most likely a byproduct of the energy the planet gives off during the process of creating the physical manifestations or possibly just by existing.
I think the "engine' that Zero saw was probably the "Heart" of the planet.
Especially since They had to go through a maze to get there.
That makes it possible for it to assume any physical shape it interprets from its victims minds.
At that point, it creates whatever other illusion of reality is also necessary for the victim to be fooled.
So even though the physical forms remain after the individual "awakens" it just gets reabsorbed eventually.
The Thoron emissions are most likely a byproduct of the energy the planet gives off during the process of creating the physical manifestations or possibly just by existing.
I think the "engine' that Zero saw was probably the "Heart" of the planet.
Especially since They had to go through a maze to get there.
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The Vines are some kind of physical substance that the planet manipulates.
That makes it possible for it to assume any physical shape it interprets from its victims minds.
At that point, it creates whatever other illusion of reality is also necessary for the victim to be fooled.
So even though the physical forms remain after the individual "awakens" it just gets reabsorbed eventually.
The Thoron emissions are most likely a byproduct of the energy the planet gives off during the process of creating the physical manifestations or possibly just by existing.
I think the "engine' that Zero saw was probably the "Heart" of the planet.
Especially since They had to go through a maze to get there.
Well, it's basically a combination of salt vampire and TOS shore leave with a soupcon of Heart of Stone and Rogue Planet.
And "Strange New World(ENT)."
I am hoping that, in the future, this series can be streamed without commercials. Other than that, I am liking what I see. For THIS particular episode? A solid 8. The characters are growing on me, and I like the stakes involved. I still want to know why the Protostar is wanted so badly by the antagonists, which is a nice mystery arc. Looking forward to more of this series.
Paramount+ at least offers a commercial free subscription/membership that includes Prodigy. Hopefully commercial free options will be made available everywhere soon!
Solid 7.
Docked it a few points because Dal still had me grinding my teeth through the first half of the episode: I keep getting "selfish, uncaring jerk" vibes off of him instead of the "lovable, carefree rogue" vibes they seem to be going for. Didn't the first episode establish at least some level of personal connection beyond enmity between him and Gwyn? Why is it all just sneering disregard now? Didn't Rok-Tahk save his life? Why is he so blithe about taking off and leaving her to her own devices? I get his maybe not feeling entirely loyal to Jankom and Zero, but Rok?
He does eventually show some signs of caring about the others... albeit only when he realizes he's in trouble without them. But I'm really hoping he gets more likable. I'm starting to suspect that Dal is actually designed as a bit of a narcissist, though, and that he genuinely only cares about other people when it's relevant to saving his own skin. That wouldn't be out of line given his past, I guess, and it would explain why he's still trying to keep up this stupid know-it-all act of his with the only people he has to know will have already seen through it. But I hope that's not really the case.
[EDIT: On reflection, I know the kids' audience will not have these gripes with Dal. After all, 12-year-old me never noticed how much of a dick Indiana Jones is in Raiders of the Lost Ark; it was only later in life that I was able to see it. I guess maybe this is the root of my problem with Dal: it would be nice for kids' Trek to have some positive role-modeling going on, especially with its lead protagonist.]
Wee bit of contrivance in plot structure: Holo-Janeway prods them into investigating the planet but doesn't tell them that normal Starfleet procedure would be to just beam down rather than risk the whole ship by landing it? This contrivance is, I guess, in order that Gwyn can't just hijack the ship from orbit when she inevitably breaks out again. But it's... weird.
Everything else is nifty, though. Rok, Jankom and Zero are all great, the planet is breathtaking, the visuals are amazing, and we got a nifty (and creepy) twist on a classic Trek trope along with some great action. The reveal that Gwyn -- really emerging as an interesting and pretty badass character, despite her misplaced loyalty to the Diviner -- was trained from childhood to control the Protostar was very cool.
The revelations from the planet's hallucinations range from funny to heartbreaking in interesting ways. Jankom's vision revolving around food, and Zero's around intellectual curiosity, are both on brand. Dal's yearning for his lost parents was a nice reminder that there can and hopefully will be more to his arc than his just being a selfish idiot. It's a quite heartbreaking touch that Rok hallucinates a swarm of cute little friends who shower her with affection (Rok's crestfallen reaction when she learns it was fake really cut me). It's perhaps even sadder that Gwyn recognizes the counterfeit nature of the "father" the planet offers up the moment he actually offers her affection. That's surprisingly deep character work for a kid's show.
He does eventually show some signs of caring about the others... albeit only when he realizes he's in trouble without them. But I'm really hoping he gets more likable. I'm starting to suspect that Dal is actually designed as a bit of a narcissist, though, and that he genuinely only cares about other people when it's relevant to saving his own skin. That wouldn't be out of line given his past, I guess, and it would explain why he's still trying to keep up this stupid know-it-all act of his with the only people he has to know will have already seen through it. But I hope that's not really the case.
[EDIT: On reflection, I know the kids' audience will not have these gripes with Dal. After all, 12-year-old me never noticed how much of a dick Indiana Jones is in Raiders of the Lost Ark; it was only later in life that I was able to see it. I guess maybe this is the root of my problem with Dal: it would be nice for kids' Trek to have some positive role-modeling going on, especially with its lead protagonist.]
Wee bit of contrivance in plot structure: Holo-Janeway prods them into investigating the planet but doesn't tell them that normal Starfleet procedure would be to just beam down rather than risk the whole ship by landing it? This contrivance is, I guess, in order that Gwyn can't just hijack the ship from orbit when she inevitably breaks out again. But it's... weird.
Everything else is nifty, though. Rok, Jankom and Zero are all great, the planet is breathtaking, the visuals are amazing, and we got a nifty (and creepy) twist on a classic Trek trope along with some great action. The reveal that Gwyn -- really emerging as an interesting and pretty badass character, despite her misplaced loyalty to the Diviner -- was trained from childhood to control the Protostar was very cool.
The revelations from the planet's hallucinations range from funny to heartbreaking in interesting ways. Jankom's vision revolving around food, and Zero's around intellectual curiosity, are both on brand. Dal's yearning for his lost parents was a nice reminder that there can and hopefully will be more to his arc than his just being a selfish idiot. It's a quite heartbreaking touch that Rok hallucinates a swarm of cute little friends who shower her with affection (Rok's crestfallen reaction when she learns it was fake really cut me). It's perhaps even sadder that Gwyn recognizes the counterfeit nature of the "father" the planet offers up the moment he actually offers her affection. That's surprisingly deep character work for a kid's show.
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A
Amaris
Guest
Essentially this. I have a baseline (consistency, visuals, dialogue, plot), and then I add or take away based on how much enjoyment I get from watching it. That means some Enterprise episodes might rank higher than some DS9 episodes, despite my being a Niner. It's all relative anyway.I'm not. I don't even grade based on other episodes of the same show. My grade is a purely emotional one based on my personal enjoyment of the specific episode. No comparisons.
You tried it and it's not for you. No big deal.
The SF Debris method.
And no comparing between shows.
The ship may have gone out while Voyager was still in the DQ (Gwyn mentioned her having been trained to fly Protostar "ever since she was a girl").
IMHC, Gwyn is to the manor born on Solum. She is an abused child (What loving father calls their daughter their "progeny"? It's so cold and clinical. It makes her sound as if she was spawned!
)
Kate Mulgrew is great. The woman can turn on a dime.
ETA: Finally finished it. Sucker punch to the gut!
Apparently, "Janeway's Rules" are Starfleet regulations:
Perhaps that's later on? We don't want to overwhelm the kids with too much technobabble.
When we were growing up, the writers would just pull magical high-tech solutions out of their @$# and we never gave too much thought to it:
Geordi: "We can release this entity's grip on the ship if we if reverse the polarity of the Hexatron generators and flood it with halatron particles!"
Picard: "Make it so!"
(I know it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever ... but it sounded cool. )
Oooh ... that's a deep cut.
The Hageman Bros. know their Trek!
IMHC, Gwyn is to the manor born on Solum. She is an abused child (What loving father calls their daughter their "progeny"? It's so cold and clinical. It makes her sound as if she was spawned!
)Kate Mulgrew is great. The woman can turn on a dime.
ETA: Finally finished it. Sucker punch to the gut!
Apparently, "Janeway's Rules" are Starfleet regulations:
Perhaps that's later on? We don't want to overwhelm the kids with too much technobabble.
When we were growing up, the writers would just pull magical high-tech solutions out of their @$# and we never gave too much thought to it:
Geordi: "We can release this entity's grip on the ship if we if reverse the polarity of the Hexatron generators and flood it with halatron particles!"
Picard: "Make it so!"
(I know it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever ... but it sounded cool.
)Oooh ... that's a deep cut.
The Hageman Bros. know their Trek!
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My initial review: Star Trek: Prodigy 1x04 - "Dream Catcher"
Watching a 2nd time tonight to get ready for season 1.25 to begin this Thursday.
It really hit me the nod to "Where No One Has Gone Before(TNG)"
Many similar beats where they see their desires manifested. I hand it to them, they really truly are going where no one has gone before.
Onto pt2.
Watching a 2nd time tonight to get ready for season 1.25 to begin this Thursday.
It really hit me the nod to "Where No One Has Gone Before(TNG)"
Many similar beats where they see their desires manifested. I hand it to them, they really truly are going where no one has gone before.
Onto pt2.
I originally gave this episode an 8, and I think after watching it again I would stay with an 8 or maybe bring it down to a 7. It was really set up, but I think what struck me about this episode this time around was how scary those vines things looked. I mean they market this as a kids show, but I think I would have trouble sleeping if I was in the early years and the picture of Janeway's evil looking face with the vines attached to her back was in my mind. They really did a good job on the animation there.
I think the one character I just can't enjoy though in this show (And I love the show) is Pog. He really hasn't done anything memorable other than be a bit of a loudmouth and he looked like he was wearing a Geordi like visor. I also need to remind myself that he's a tellerite.
Really looking forward to rewatching the next episode because that was where all the great character moments happened, especially with Gwyn.
I think the one character I just can't enjoy though in this show (And I love the show) is Pog. He really hasn't done anything memorable other than be a bit of a loudmouth and he looked like he was wearing a Geordi like visor. I also need to remind myself that he's a tellerite.
Really looking forward to rewatching the next episode because that was where all the great character moments happened, especially with Gwyn.
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Late reply, but I don't think this was answered yet in the thread.
In the previous episode, Starstruck, Gwyn did use her sword/armband/morphing tool but only defensively in her fight with Rokh. As to why she didn't use it in the same way as later in Dreamcatcher, I think there are two reasons.
1. In Starstruck (before her fight with Rokh), the others actually hadn't taken away her weapon (quite astounding, really, given Zero and Jankom had seen it in action) so it was with her in the brig. Assuming the entire brig (and not just the "door" part) is guarded by a force field, the weapon may not be able to penetrate through that.
2. In Dreamcatcher, we see that Gwyn waits until she is entirely alone (she even seems to suspect Murf may be more than he appears, and so she doesn't do anything while he is watching her) to play her trump card. In Starstruck, she was never alone on the ship, and so breaking out (while possible after her fight with Rokh, with her weapon outside the brig) would inevitably lead to a new confrontation/fight with the others. I think we have seen throughout episodes 2 - 4 that Gwyn wasn't willing to use her weapon to actually kill or gravely wound the others, and without that willingness she couldn't expect to beat the others (especially Rokh who is physically superior and who also puts Gwyn on the defensive mentally, being an enslaved young child and all). In that case, it's smart to wait for an opportunity where she can escape without risking a confrontation with the others.
It was really stupid of Dal to be confident enough in the security of the brig (and of the ship's computers) to leave her entirely alone on the ship, while she seemed to desire to be taken along to the planet and made an opening to Dal in that sense ("we could haven been friends"). If Dal had responded positively rather than dismiss her with a snarky remark, he would have stopped her stealing the ship and have a chance to bring her to his side. That doesn't happen by ignoring her in the brig, which only strengthens her loyalty to the Diviner. Spending time with Rokh, Jankom and Zero would likely diminish Gwyn' antagonism naturally and cause her to question the Diviner more and more.
Thanks to Janeway (who manipulated Gwyn to leave the ship, IMO, given that it came down with far less damage than the shuttle), he got the chance anyway.
