It really shouldn't get hate for looking different. Differences were usually celebrated...
Spoilers Star Trek: Prodigy 1x01/02 - "Lost and Found"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
I like how the TOS Enterprise looks right but the NX-01 has TOS-style nacelles. 
So...yeah.
The little victories, right?
So...yeah.The little victories, right?
Those could imply a later refit!
If he was from the future with knowledge of what will happen, wouldn't this mean he woould know exactly where the Protostar crashed and thus found it early on?
His interest in the Protostar suggests intimate knowledge of the vessel and what it can do... possibly a former member of the original crew or someone who is from the AQ or DQ, learned of the Protostar and what it can do (whatever it is) and now wants it for himself.
It is possible he's from the future and is connected to the Protostar... however, in case of his name, from my perspective, individuals with little or no overall scientific understanding of the natural world tend to ascribe supernatural aspects to individuals and situations that seemingly defy wheat they do know or perform/result in feats which fall outside the realm of their understanding.
Remember the two Ferengi who got stranded in the DQ via the Barzan Wormhole and how a primitive society perceived them as 'sages' due to their advanced technology?
Moving beyond that... he could have also given himself the name 'Diviner' just to maintain a position of power (and he does wield some interesting technology to maintain a seemingly ruthless regime - then again, it IS a prison colony... so he would be the proverbial warden).
Its a possibility... but the UFP expanding into the Delta Quadrant would also be possible since VOY returned (if we're sticking with 2383 time frame.
Remember the Talaxian asteroid on which Neelix decided to stay that was about 16 000 ly's away from Earth?
They could/would be considered one of the best potential species for UFP to revisit (and possibly invite to join) since they are closest to the AQ and the only friendly species the UFP would know of in that part of space thanks to Voyager.
If SF stabilized QS technology in the year following VOY's return, with the aid of Slipstream v2, SF could reach them in just over 1 minute and 30 seconds (considering that speed was about 10 000 Ly's per minute).
Using Slipstream v1 (and that version maximum speed of 300 Ly's per hour), a ship could reach the Talaxian asteroid in just over 2 days.
If its the same v1 with sustainable speed of 714.28 Ly's per day that would cross 60 000 Ly's in 3 months as the fake SF message suggested, then just under 23 days (even at this speed, the DQ is open to SF without aid of Benamite crystals since v1 never needed them to work - the quantum stresses were the main issue).
At any rate, whichever speed you use, it would suggest the Protostar would NOT have been the only NX class ship to have been equipped with these technologies.
If others worked, and SF succesfully integrated Slipstream into some of their ships, then returning to the DQ and establishing outposts (and expanding as a result) where friendly species are (which welcomed Voyager) would be a possibility.
The presence of a Kazon in the pilot indicates the Protostar ended up near the Caretaker's array.
'This side of the Delta' was also mentioned by Gwyn. It may imply the Kazon gained access to more advanced propulsion technology (perhaps they had a breakthrough from when Jonas was feeding them telemetry of VOY achieving Warp 10) or maybe even the subspace corridors with the help of the Vad'uaar who fled the second Turei bombardment.
If SF/UFP created a few outposts with friendly species in the DQ in the 5 years since VOY's return (for which they would have a reason because VOY left several potentially bad situations to fester unresolved and it's inability to handle them what with being limited to slow Warp and the premise of being just 1 ship) that could explain the UFP presence in the DQ (if it exists) along with the Diviner's worry... although, in the context he said 'I can't have/bear the thought of the Federation influencing her' could also mean that he knew of the Janeway training hologram onboard the Protostar which would impart the information of the Federation to Gwyn along with its principles and ideas.
Her knowledge of 'Standard' (depending on whether this is Federation standard) is another point of worry for the Diviner. She already preferred speaking in a language he deems as 'primitive tongue'.
As for HOW he gained access to the language so Gwyn could learn it... well, VOY shared a lot of the information of UFP with alien species... languages might have been one of those (as they are pretty harmless), and this information could have reached the Diviner.
I never disparaged Disco for looking different. In fact, I liked the new look and how 'modernized' the 23rd century looked - though they probably could have made ST: Picard a bit less in the same style... that show seems to have undergone some heavy recycling from Disco.
The only thing that bothered me about Disco was ... well, I don't want to start that conversation again.
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Yeah, but it wouldn't be possible to such an extent that multiple people seem to know about Tellarite culture and personality, and Tellarites are around (as are Medusans, Caitians, Lurians, and Brikar), but don't know about the Federation. That implies a timeframe of more than five years, or at least an adequate number for the large amount of known species "invading" an area far away.
he might have knowledge of some future events but not of the location of the protostar if the ship has been hidden while he wasn’t above.
As mentioned earlier, I wouldn’t be surprised if the Diviner was in fact the original captain of the ship.
Yeah, that's a possibility... but I am hoping that's not the case because I'd prefer seeing SF captains persevere despite the odds... which would showcase that individuals can overcome extremely dire circumstances.
Unless he's being influenced by another unknown source which is causing him to behave in this manner (if he is the Protostar's original captain that is).
To be fair, we have previous examples of SF captains who went against UFP principles and ideals due to dire circumstances (although those were rare instances as well)... but given the kind of training these people are supposed to have and society they live in, one would imagine that a SF captain (and the crew) would do whatever is possible to avoid going against UFP ideals and finding alternative solutions... or die trying.
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Yes... and to me, this implies a temporal mishap may have happened to the Protostar.
So, I worked out a hypothesis that the Protostar was outfitted with new technologies and launched to test them in 1 or 2 years after Voyager returned (2379 or 2380).
The Protostar itself however is an older NX class starship - probably built 2 years after Voyager originally vanished (if the registry is any indication) and was one of several NX class ships chosen as a testbed for new technologies VOY brought back)... when testing the new propulsion (and possibly temporal technology), an accident occurred throwing it back in time about 20 odd years (possibly much more) and close to Voyager's starting point in the DQ (which would explain the Kazon)... or closer to the AQ border (the existence of the Kazon in that case could be explained via subspace corridors or them getting a breakthrough from Jonas who fed them information about Warp 10... or possibly just encountering new/faster propulsion technology independently, or an independent group which travelled far enough away from most other sects).
Depending on the accident, the crew was forced to abandon the Protostar (which would end up largely repairing itself over time thanks to self-repair systems that exist on SF ships - but not 100% because some repairs may require actual engineers) and might not have been able to find out WHERE the Protostar ended up (if they beamed out, etc.).
The crew never returned, hence the now 'mostly' repaired Protostar went into 'sleep mode' - I'd surmise the self-repair would have taken a couple of days or up to a week (if you guys recall, VOY was initially damaged in its transition to the DQ and despite the fact the crew sealed the Warp core microfracture, VOY still had intermittent power disruptions and smoke all over the ship when the crew was beamed to the array, both of which were no longer an issue when the crew was returned back aboard 3 days after the Caretaker examined them - to me, it suggested that VOY managed to self-repair a LOT of systems while the crew was away).
At any rate, whatever happened to the Protostar crew, they could have ended up having AQ species kids who were never told of the existence of the Federation... either by choice, coersion, memory loss (or intentional wipe), or something else.
Although I'd be curious to find out what could affect Zero to lose memory of the Protostar... its an energy based lifeform after all, unless the Diviner is very skilled in Telepathy to the point where he could even affect non-corporeal lifeforms - and what would a Medusan be doing in the DQ in the first place. The fact they are energy based lifeforms suggests to me they don't have an 'expiration date' like most carbon based lifeforms do (but could probably still be killed)... and whether the Protostar may have had a Medusan onboard originally as a navigator who could be Zero's 'parent' (for lack of better word).
Do we have any information on relationship between Medusans and UFP? Aka, is there an alliance in place, are Medusans UFP members, etc.? What is the reproduction lifecycle of a Medusan (although here, it might suggest if Zero is an offspring, its parent may have created it but had no opportunity or time to teach it about UFP).
The more you think about it, the more courses of avenue and questions present themselves... upcoming episode soon?
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I wouldn't be opposed to that storyline if they pursue it.
I'm still thinking they're all offspring of liberated Borg who simply know nothing of their ancestral homes.
But yeah, the Medusan is another matter entirely.
But yeah, the Medusan is another matter entirely.
Liberated Borg offspring?
Its a possibility... but liberated Borg tend to remember their origins, so...not sure how that could work.
Also, where would those liberated Borg originate from? Probably not from the Collective at large as those events would likely be too rare.
The only higher possible concentration of multiple AQ species would be in the Nekrit expanse (the Cooperative) who were assimilated at Wolf 359 and brought to the DQ via a Sphere (most likely) which detached from that cube which had Locutus aboard.
Wolf 359 massacre happened in 2369... that's 14 years between then and 2383 - which DOES match more or less (except in the case of Gwyn who is 17 years old).
The Cooperative may have chosen to remove certain knowledge from their offspring if a disruption of some kind occurred after Voyager left.
There's also the Borg resistance to consider - but that happened in 2377 (which is only 6 years apart from 2383 when the Protostar is discovered - so the Borg resistance having offspring (unless they experienced a temporal displacement too) doesn't track.
The Medusans (if any were present) at Wolf 359 may have been contained for study by the Borg and transported to the DQ with other AQ species, but because its an energy based lifeform, it was subsequently deemed that it can't be assimilated and therefore the decision was reached it should be destroyed (but not before creating and releasing Zero as its own offspring).
This could work in the case of 'some' AQ offspring... however, that doesn't really change the proposed possibility of the Protostar being flung back in time by several decades about 1 or 2 years after Voyager returned home. This explanation fits a bit better with 'what did you think your father was mining for all these years' line... and it can also explain away AQ offspring belonging to the Protostar original crew.
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Just a long lost Federation colony.
I'm thinking their parents were the liberated Borg. They are the offspring of said parents and likely may have been born after the liberation (or possibly some of the babies like what we've seen in the Borg nurseries from "Q, Who"), thus not yet having the Borg "genetic memory" of the AQ. Further, it's likely that something happened to the parents early in the kids' development and probably don't even remember them.
As for how they got out there, drones probably get re-assigned where the collective needs them after their assimilation. They were likely moved en-masse back to the DQ for [plot reasons] and got stuck out there after the fall of the Collective.
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Well I never said the kids themselves would have been the liberated Borg... their parents would have been indeed.
But my point is, aside from the Nekrit Expanse colony which contained the Cooperative of ex Borg that VOY encountered in their second year (who also knew of their AQ origins and of the Federation), I don't see how other AQ species would have ended up in the DQ via Borg assimilation.
The Cooperative colony would have had to have kids almost right away since being transported to the DQ and severed from the Collective... and from what Riley explained to Chakotay, this simply didn't seem to have been viable... in fact, I couldn't realistically see the Cooperative ex Borg having kids en mass until after their new link was established... and that already pushes the amount of time forward by several years.
VOY encountered the ex Borg in the Nekrit Expanse in the second half of their second year in the DQ... that would place 'Unity' episode in second half 2373 (or about 9.5 years before the events of ST Prodigy).
Considering the kids in Prodigy are supposed to be teens, the time frames don't match... unless they all mature at faster rates than humans (which would certainly make things 'convenient')... and I can accept the premise the ex Borg parents could have been enslaved and all, but to be fair, the Cooperative had the benefit of some Borg tech (which they could probably make much more useful after the entire colony was linked), so I doubt they would have allowed themselves to be enslaved easily.
Its an interesting hypothesis, but we don't have evidence to back either yours or mine.
I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens on the show in the interim.
What can I say, I get tetchy when people claim something “Star Trek in name only.”
Hate seems to be a bit extreme reaction when discussing aesthetic changes to a fictional spaceship.
Looks more like the U.S.S. Franklin to me.I like how the TOS Enterprise looks right but the NX-01 has TOS-style nacelles.
The little victories, right?
Though it's not really a exact match to either.
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Finally got around to seeing it. My wife was wondering why we were watching Star Wars.
I have a take I haven't seen discussed here though. I do wonder if starting in a Star-Wars esque base was a deliberate story move, because Star Wars (IMO) is the more ur-example of science fiction fantasy these days. Trek has always prided itself on being more technically astute, but Star Wars has always felt you needed less going into it to understand it.
But... from those Star Wars origins, we'll be shown that a Star Trek crew can emerge when you put them together on the same ship and teach them Federation values. They're scrappy now, but we'll be re-forging the closeness of the Federation in miniature with this crew.
A big deal is made of the Universal Translator here. Not as much as I'd like because Dal mentions they were taken away deliberately... but I've seen now and again the Universal Translator being a perk from the Federation to allow its many members to communicate directly. In a lot of ways, that opened the door to the crew cooperating (First Rok-Tahk, then Jankom Pog).
Regarding all the inconsistencies... I'm intrigued rather than repulsed. Rather than speculate and demerit the show for putting Alpha Quadrant races in apparently a Delta Quadrant location, I'm gonna wait to see if the show gives us an explanation. And if it doesn't, it wouldn't matter if I had fun watching it along the way.
The only real problem I had with the episode was pacing. It felt like it has the JJ Abrams problem of time and distance not being really believable. An example is made from Dal going to the surface, and much was made about how few ever make it back from there. He's not only back in the asteroid- but back on the ship- within five minutes.
We'll see how it goes.
I will add that I think the Protostar is the most attractive ship design to me since the Refit Enterprise.
I have a take I haven't seen discussed here though. I do wonder if starting in a Star-Wars esque base was a deliberate story move, because Star Wars (IMO) is the more ur-example of science fiction fantasy these days. Trek has always prided itself on being more technically astute, but Star Wars has always felt you needed less going into it to understand it.
But... from those Star Wars origins, we'll be shown that a Star Trek crew can emerge when you put them together on the same ship and teach them Federation values. They're scrappy now, but we'll be re-forging the closeness of the Federation in miniature with this crew.
A big deal is made of the Universal Translator here. Not as much as I'd like because Dal mentions they were taken away deliberately... but I've seen now and again the Universal Translator being a perk from the Federation to allow its many members to communicate directly. In a lot of ways, that opened the door to the crew cooperating (First Rok-Tahk, then Jankom Pog).
Regarding all the inconsistencies... I'm intrigued rather than repulsed. Rather than speculate and demerit the show for putting Alpha Quadrant races in apparently a Delta Quadrant location, I'm gonna wait to see if the show gives us an explanation. And if it doesn't, it wouldn't matter if I had fun watching it along the way.
The only real problem I had with the episode was pacing. It felt like it has the JJ Abrams problem of time and distance not being really believable. An example is made from Dal going to the surface, and much was made about how few ever make it back from there. He's not only back in the asteroid- but back on the ship- within five minutes.
We'll see how it goes.
I will add that I think the Protostar is the most attractive ship design to me since the Refit Enterprise.
Really? I feel like this is the exact point of the show and the point from the showrunner's efforts is to start out with something more accessible, like Star Wars, and allow the kid characters to be introductions to this world. So, I swear I've read that here. But, regardless, your observation is astute.