Star Trek: Deep Space Nine's Most Underappreciated Episode
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"Move Along Home"
IMO ‘Dr. Bashir I Presume’. Maybe not the most under-appreciated, but it’s certainly up there. I think take-away the silly B-story of Rom & Leeta, and devote more time to Bashir’s story and you’d have a better & more complete episode. There were some brilliant character-defining scenes with Julian & his parents.
Maniarek.
Maniarek.
I rank Dr Bashir as my 2nd or 3rd under appreciated ep depending on my mood.
This. I think "Move Along Home" gets an unfair amount of flak.
I nominate Battle Lines.
This. A fun little show thats demonised due to its negative aspects. Nowhere near as bad as a great deal of season 7.
I seem to remember reading somewhere that Rene Auberjonois considered 'The Ascent' a real fan favourite.
His Way
I hate seeing people rag on this episode because it's not sci fi enough for them.
I hate seeing people rag on this episode because it's not sci fi enough for them.
His Way
I hate seeing people rag on this episode because it's not sci fi enough for them.
I hate seeing people rag on this episode because it's not sci fi enough for them.
Fascination. I just found it a bit of harmless fun that explored a couple of 'what-ifs' between the cast. Badda Bing Badda Bang is also an episode I enjoyed immensely, despite it being little more than filler.
Otherwise, I think.. oh god.. haven't seen the series for so long... Rules Of Engagement was a wonderful formulaic episode that was about the only good we got out of Worf coming on the series. At least for his first heavily Klingon season. Once More Unto The Breach is also not often mentioned, but that was a great way to send off Kor.
And as in the OP, yes, the Ascent is the prime example of an episode that just gets forgotten when bringing up best episodes. It's a huge Odo/Quark episode, for God's sake. Their banter is awesome.
Oh, it's sci fi enough for me. I just found it boring. Sorry. I'm not a huge O/K fan nor is Vic a very engaging character until Season 7 when he gets a couple of good episodes to stretch him. You're fine to think it's underappreciated, but it's still sci fi.
Otherwise, I think.. oh god.. haven't seen the series for so long... Rules Of Engagement was a wonderful formulaic episode that was about the only good we got out of Worf coming on the series. At least for his first heavily Klingon season. Once More Unto The Breach is also not often mentioned, but that was a great way to send off Kor.
And as in the OP, yes, the Ascent is the prime example of an episode that just gets forgotten when bringing up best episodes. It's a huge Odo/Quark episode, for God's sake. Their banter is awesome.
Oh, it's sci fi enough for me. I just found it boring. Sorry. I'm not a huge O/K fan nor is Vic a very engaging character until Season 7 when he gets a couple of good episodes to stretch him. You're fine to think it's underappreciated, but it's still sci fi.
I was being facetious there more than anything. I get a lot people don't like it because it's a 'relationship' episode.
Civil Defense. It gives a far better perspective into Cardassian culture and thinking than any other episode, vaporizes the show's first redshirt (cliche avoided for over two seasons!), and literally had me rolling around on the floor laughing the first time I saw Dukat get trapped to await his death by a security program he wrote.
I was being facetious there more than anything. I get a lot people don't like it because it's a 'relationship' episode.
I can like relationship episodes. Give me the right relationship and it works wonders. Odo and Kira just didn't work for me. I would have preferred Bashir/Kira, based on a few occurences in Crossfire, and later Fascination. Hell, it would been fine actor-wise as well. Then Jake/Ezri could have happened feasibly as well..
Anyway, a relationship episode I like. Hmmm... Change of Heart was good, and so was Looking For Par'Mach, despite the fact I wasn't a fan of Jadzia/Worf in particular...
Melora was... good... too. (Please don't shoot me) and so were the many Bashir/O'Brien episodes.
Hey. That's still a relationship, of a sort.
"The Ascent" is good enough as it is; I certainly enjoyed seeing Quark/Odo banter and mutual antagonism over the years, and this one, of course, puts that on hyperdrive. To be honest, though, it's not an especially new or unique concept: put two recurring antagonists-enemies together, in a tight circumstance from which they have no easy escape (being locked in a storage room, or basement, for example), and then have them go at it, engage in pointed back and forth, air out their issues, eventually be forced to work together, etc., for however long the show goes on (or until they are rescued, which ever comes first). At the end the two grow to a deeper understanding/respect, even if grudging, for another. Seen a gazillion variations of this plot on various 70's & 80's sitcoms.
What kept it from being merely an assembly line production is: 1) More than four years of previous chracter interaction from which to build dialogue and action on, thus giving it a sense of inevitably. 2) Being at a part of the series - the bang up 5th season - where it felt like that this was "supposed" to happen, and where the writers could flesh out the relationship a bit, and 3) Both Rene Auberjonois and Armin Shimmerman being such great actors, and having such a feel for the interplay of these two guys. Hence being able to easily "sell" the audience on this scenario.
Also, the Jake/Nog B plot was very good, easily supported the A plot, and showed just how good both Cirroc Lofton and Aron Eisenberg could be. (And I still love that Sisko line - "I am your Captain, and your father, and what I say goes!" lol, - as well as the aforementioned Sisko/Rom conversation).
So, a 7.5 out of 10. Good, but not fantastic or exceptional. Definitely would'nt count it among my top 25 of the series.
What kept it from being merely an assembly line production is: 1) More than four years of previous chracter interaction from which to build dialogue and action on, thus giving it a sense of inevitably. 2) Being at a part of the series - the bang up 5th season - where it felt like that this was "supposed" to happen, and where the writers could flesh out the relationship a bit, and 3) Both Rene Auberjonois and Armin Shimmerman being such great actors, and having such a feel for the interplay of these two guys. Hence being able to easily "sell" the audience on this scenario.
Also, the Jake/Nog B plot was very good, easily supported the A plot, and showed just how good both Cirroc Lofton and Aron Eisenberg could be. (And I still love that Sisko line - "I am your Captain, and your father, and what I say goes!" lol, - as well as the aforementioned Sisko/Rom conversation).
So, a 7.5 out of 10. Good, but not fantastic or exceptional. Definitely would'nt count it among my top 25 of the series.
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I loved that episode or any episode with James Darren for that matter.
Statistical Probabilities
I understand that some people do not like any episodes that features the Jack Pack, but I love this episode just for this little interaction between the crew. It really highlights how Earth isn't really the utopia that Picard keeps harping about. In the least, prejudice still exists towards certain kinds of people.
O'Brien: "I hope they don't end up being too productive -- it'd make the rest of us look bad."
O'Brien's lighthearted comment actually strikes to the heart of the matter, and Worf seizes on it.
Worf: "It is no laughing matter. If people like them are allowed to compete freely, parents would feel pressured to have their children enhanced so that they could keep up."
Odo, seeing Worf's point: "That's precisely what prompted the ban on DNA resequencing in the first place."
This is Starfleet's party line and Bashir knows it, but it's a difficult subject for him. A moment, then he tries to calmly explain how he sees it. Despite his best efforts, Bashir can't keep the emotion from rising in his voice.
Bashir: "Giving them a chance to contribute doesn't mean sanctioning what was done to them. They didn't ask to have their DNA tampered with -- they were just children when it happened. Why should they be excluded when their parents are the ones who broke the law?"
An awkward silence settles over the room as the others realize Julian is taking the conversation personally. Finally, Sisko cautiously tries to smooth things over.
Sisko: "You're right. It's not quite fair. But even so it seemed a good way to discourage genetic tampering."
O'Brien: "Besides, we're not talking about excluding them, we're talking about putting certain limits on what they're allowed to do."
Bashir: "Like joining Starfleet."
Worf: "Exactly."
Bashir takes a moment before responding, troubled by the fact that what they're saying is so similar to what Jack and the others were saying.
Bashir: "Are you saying I shouldn't be allowed to wear this uniform?"
Bashir's question is a logical extension of their argument, but no one in the room would go that far. They care about Julian too much.
Worf: "You... are an exception."
That sums up everyone's feelings -- they're willing to break the rules for him.
Bashir: "An exception. I suppose I should be used to that, I've been one all my life. First because of the resequencing, and now because I'm allowed to serve in Starfleet anyway."
I understand that some people do not like any episodes that features the Jack Pack, but I love this episode just for this little interaction between the crew. It really highlights how Earth isn't really the utopia that Picard keeps harping about. In the least, prejudice still exists towards certain kinds of people.
O'Brien: "I hope they don't end up being too productive -- it'd make the rest of us look bad."
O'Brien's lighthearted comment actually strikes to the heart of the matter, and Worf seizes on it.
Worf: "It is no laughing matter. If people like them are allowed to compete freely, parents would feel pressured to have their children enhanced so that they could keep up."
Odo, seeing Worf's point: "That's precisely what prompted the ban on DNA resequencing in the first place."
This is Starfleet's party line and Bashir knows it, but it's a difficult subject for him. A moment, then he tries to calmly explain how he sees it. Despite his best efforts, Bashir can't keep the emotion from rising in his voice.
Bashir: "Giving them a chance to contribute doesn't mean sanctioning what was done to them. They didn't ask to have their DNA tampered with -- they were just children when it happened. Why should they be excluded when their parents are the ones who broke the law?"
An awkward silence settles over the room as the others realize Julian is taking the conversation personally. Finally, Sisko cautiously tries to smooth things over.
Sisko: "You're right. It's not quite fair. But even so it seemed a good way to discourage genetic tampering."
O'Brien: "Besides, we're not talking about excluding them, we're talking about putting certain limits on what they're allowed to do."
Bashir: "Like joining Starfleet."
Worf: "Exactly."
Bashir takes a moment before responding, troubled by the fact that what they're saying is so similar to what Jack and the others were saying.
Bashir: "Are you saying I shouldn't be allowed to wear this uniform?"
Bashir's question is a logical extension of their argument, but no one in the room would go that far. They care about Julian too much.
Worf: "You... are an exception."
That sums up everyone's feelings -- they're willing to break the rules for him.
Bashir: "An exception. I suppose I should be used to that, I've been one all my life. First because of the resequencing, and now because I'm allowed to serve in Starfleet anyway."
I agree with some of these.
"The Ascent" had a plot like some B-grade or C-grade afternoon matinee movie from the 70s or 80s, but had some excellent location shooting for a franchise more famed for making the same cave look different over and over again. It's definately different from other DS9 eps (not as different as VOyager "11:59" was), though it's not bad at all. I kind of think many people even forget this episode existed! Seriously, a major Odo-Quark episode, and it rarely gets mentioned?
"Move Along Home" doesn't deserve all of the vitriol it gets. I saw it again in 2010 after having last seen it sometime in the '90s, and all the scenes people cringe at, didn't seem remotely as bad as they made it out to be.
"His Way" deserves its reputation. In fact, it deserves "Move Along Home"'s reputation. It has the plot of a lame 1950s/early 60s movie. I've seen a lot of 1950s and 60s movies, there were many far better ones to emulate. Who at DS9's production staff was obsessed with Sinatra or Tony Bennett? All it was missing was Odo singing "I left my bucket in San Francisco". Fontaine is only good in "Paper Moon".
"Rules of Engagement"? It's mediocre. Sisko should have channeled Perry Mason, the Klingon prosecutor Hamilton Burger. Not bad, just mediocre.
"Second Skin". I'd agree, very interesting episode, good story, should be in the top 10th of the series though doesn't get mention alongside other top-tenth episodes.
"Civil Defense" is good. For a bottle show, the premise is great (Voyager's "Worst Case Scenario" gets similarly bashed when it's an interesting episode, perhaps more appreciated by those of us who grew up on video games than on those who only played video games when older). The episode seals Dukat's reputation as a total ***hole. Before he realizes he's trapped too, he exudes that. Him being caught in his own trap because his superiors didn't trust him at all was funny. It also builds Garak's reputation as much more than "a simple tailor" (along with "Second Skin" obviously).
I'll add to the list these:
"Necessary Evil"- Great episode, added layers to the backstory of DS9, actually showing us Terok Nor, something the other Star Trek series never did. Great Odo episode too. Haven't seen "Things Past" in a while (ummm, over a decade) though so can't comment on that.
"Shadowplay"- not as underrated as others, the whole hologram element seems to make it written off, like the fact it was imitated (ENT "Oasis"). I don't see people writing off VOY "One" because of ENT "Doctor's Orders". Saw this again recently, the guest stars really played their roles memorably. Just a nice episode.
And honorable mention, "Rocks and Shoals" for the hell that episode put the cast & production crew in: filming in over 125°F heat.
And Season 7 did tend to have a weaker lineup of episodes. Of course, at least Season 7 didn't make "Once More Unto the Beach", where those old Klingons invade Risa, to relive some of their glorious spring breaks, like the glorious battle at Trader Vic's, where they beat their rivals in a blood wine drinking contest, Ka'pla-*burp*.
"The Ascent" had a plot like some B-grade or C-grade afternoon matinee movie from the 70s or 80s, but had some excellent location shooting for a franchise more famed for making the same cave look different over and over again. It's definately different from other DS9 eps (not as different as VOyager "11:59" was), though it's not bad at all. I kind of think many people even forget this episode existed! Seriously, a major Odo-Quark episode, and it rarely gets mentioned?
"Move Along Home" doesn't deserve all of the vitriol it gets. I saw it again in 2010 after having last seen it sometime in the '90s, and all the scenes people cringe at, didn't seem remotely as bad as they made it out to be.
"His Way" deserves its reputation. In fact, it deserves "Move Along Home"'s reputation. It has the plot of a lame 1950s/early 60s movie. I've seen a lot of 1950s and 60s movies, there were many far better ones to emulate. Who at DS9's production staff was obsessed with Sinatra or Tony Bennett? All it was missing was Odo singing "I left my bucket in San Francisco". Fontaine is only good in "Paper Moon".
"Rules of Engagement"? It's mediocre. Sisko should have channeled Perry Mason, the Klingon prosecutor Hamilton Burger. Not bad, just mediocre.
"Second Skin". I'd agree, very interesting episode, good story, should be in the top 10th of the series though doesn't get mention alongside other top-tenth episodes.
"Civil Defense" is good. For a bottle show, the premise is great (Voyager's "Worst Case Scenario" gets similarly bashed when it's an interesting episode, perhaps more appreciated by those of us who grew up on video games than on those who only played video games when older). The episode seals Dukat's reputation as a total ***hole. Before he realizes he's trapped too, he exudes that. Him being caught in his own trap because his superiors didn't trust him at all was funny. It also builds Garak's reputation as much more than "a simple tailor" (along with "Second Skin" obviously).
I'll add to the list these:
"Necessary Evil"- Great episode, added layers to the backstory of DS9, actually showing us Terok Nor, something the other Star Trek series never did. Great Odo episode too. Haven't seen "Things Past" in a while (ummm, over a decade) though so can't comment on that.
"Shadowplay"- not as underrated as others, the whole hologram element seems to make it written off, like the fact it was imitated (ENT "Oasis"). I don't see people writing off VOY "One" because of ENT "Doctor's Orders". Saw this again recently, the guest stars really played their roles memorably. Just a nice episode.
And honorable mention, "Rocks and Shoals" for the hell that episode put the cast & production crew in: filming in over 125°F heat.
And Season 7 did tend to have a weaker lineup of episodes. Of course, at least Season 7 didn't make "Once More Unto the Beach", where those old Klingons invade Risa, to relive some of their glorious spring breaks, like the glorious battle at Trader Vic's, where they beat their rivals in a blood wine drinking contest, Ka'pla-*burp*.
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