So why did 'USS Relativity' let Janeway rewrite history in Endgame?

[F. King Daniel]

Re: So why did 'USS Relativity' let Janeway rewrite history in Endgame

In "Repression" Seven was being possesed by the personalitites of everyone she'd assimilated.

 

[Mach5]

Re: So why did 'USS Relativity' let Janeway rewrite history in Endgame

In "Repression" Seven was being possesed by the personalitites of everyone she'd assimilated.

"Infinite Regress"

 

[F. King Daniel]

Re: So why did 'USS Relativity' let Janeway rewrite history in Endgame

Yes, "Infinite Regress". I was merely testing my fellow Voyager fans' memories.

Yes. Testing.

Honest.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Re: So why did 'USS Relativity' let Janeway rewrite history in Endgame

Yes.

You are testing and we are your testes.

 

[exodus]

Re: So why did 'USS Relativity' let Janeway rewrite history in Endgame

How do we know the Relativity crew DIDN'T do anything?

I mean, we know they had to come clean up the mess left behind by Harry's actions at the end of "Timeless" (they called it the 'Temporal inversion in the Takara sector) so perhaps they did the same thing here too. Just because we didn't see it in the episode doesn't mean they didn't do anything.

For all we know, ten minutes after the end of the episode (onscreen), the Relativity cleaned out every last bit of extra tech and left the Voyager crew wondering where it went. In fact they probably DID do exactly that.

What else does the episode Relativity prove but that if they don't like how things turn out, they go back to a saved point and do-over their mission until they save the day.

Exodus, every timeline, whether it be the Federation or not, has some species/race/alliance which masters timetravel first and leaves the universe to patrol outside time and regulate the progression of continuity... Trouble is, that I'm assuming that there is only "one" the same outside of time that every temporal power tries to dominate. that even divergent Earth histories are not going to recognize the totally alien authority of their almost selves that the shit is really going to hit the fan if the Tholians of the Klingons gain the high ground.

So even if the timecops from Captain Janeways Timeline were superhappy about Endgame, the Time cops from Admiral Janeways Timeline would have been shitting their biscuits, and those timecops would have had to have had a smack down to see whose universe had a greater right to exist.

Unless 29th century Earth is temporally shielded and it cannot be altered by schisms and paradoxes within the timeline, which they would be fools not to.

I'm going to disagree just for the simple fact I've never seen anything within the series itself to suggest it. They have shown the Temporal Police in being proactive in trying to prevent time changes that would be detrimental to the future and ignoring events that weren't.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Re: So why did 'USS Relativity' let Janeway rewrite history in Endgame

Annorax.

I said timecops.

But I'm using Annorax as a citation.

(not that I cited anything.)

He is after all a Krenim Timecop.

Annorax was outside of time.

The universe changed underneath him.

Hundreds, if not thousands of times.

What sort of macabre miracle was it that Krenim temporal science, their politicians and their war office never launched another time ship into outside time, just like they did back in Annorax's home universe?

Mark you, any nuKrenim that found Annorax playing god outside of Time would not recognize him as Krenim, would not accept his authority and would be wholly miffed at the thought of a dirty, albeit familiar looking foreigner controlling their destiny they assumed it was their right to pillar, since everything is about control.

Then there's the integration process to consider as a a type of Tuvixian execution, that you have to wonder how down with it grandpa Braxton was in Futures end or the many, many many Janeways in relativity or that seven was integrated with several corpses who failed to save the day.

I'm assuming that all matter has to be assimilated rather than just living people, otherwise there would be quite a mess as their clothes and medical implants and half digested food integrates... Three Janeways turned into a single Janeway? I was thinking that if three Janeway's uniforms were integrated it would be a triply dense material which might be even bullet proof to some level, but would Janeway herself be three times denser (molecularly not mentally.) and stronger and faster?

Was Tuvix as strong as a Talaxian plus a Vulcan or the average of a Talaxian and a Vulcan?

Riker and Kirk when they were split reverse ditto.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Re: So why did 'USS Relativity' let Janeway rewrite history in Endgame

^ We don't know if the kind of technology that allowed Annorax to build his ship was available to all Krenim. It just might be (though most Krenim are not up to Annorax's level in terms of sheer intelligence and ability).

I do suspect that this technology did play a large role in 29th-century Starfleet tech - it is likely that the Krenim are members of the Federation in that era.

We know that Annorax's ship will never be built again, since the last thing it did was to perform a temporal incursion on itself - creating a new timeline in which it will never exist.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Re: So why did 'USS Relativity' let Janeway rewrite history in Endgame

We saw a temporal incursion where the materials used to build that ship were never used. that's like saying that if you get rid of a couple trees, that should have been used in the construction of your house that the timbersmith... Lumberjack? Contractor? Yeah. That the contractor just didn't buy other wood and build your house anyway.

That planet where his wife was?

Was Annorax also "supposed" to be there?

Would he have to fight himself to the death or share his wife with a temporal doppleganger if he ever did create a universe with her inside it?

I doubt another Annorax's wife would want this Annorax because it's skeevy and cheaty.

if the technology exists.

The government has it.

That government is a pack of assholes.

They'll use it.

However, as stated, if the wife doesn't exist then neither probably does he if the world they were born on was never colonized or garrisoned by the Krenim.

So no Annorax in any of these timelines means no super scientist to spearhead the project.

Unless he wasn't so special?

The existence of temporal Shields means that many demolished timelines can have the audacity to survive apocalyptic paradoxes and fight on against other demolished timelines, as Janeway and her allies did, since the allies she acquired were from a different home reality than her, who also then had their home reality destroyed by Annorax doing god knows what to their homelife and family and empire.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Re: So why did 'USS Relativity' let Janeway rewrite history in Endgame

^ We saw the final scene. Annorax and his wife are alive, but the ship will not be. That is the whole point of a temporal incursion - to completely erase something, so that it never existed, and never WILL exist. It just so happens that the ship eventually did this to itself. Thus, the ship can never exist. All timelines where it did exist have been wiped out.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Re: So why did 'USS Relativity' let Janeway rewrite history in Endgame

^ We saw the final scene. Annorax and his wife are alive, but the ship will not be. That is the whole point of a temporal incursion - to completely erase something, so that it never existed, and never WILL exist. It just so happens that the ship eventually did this to itself. Thus, the ship can never exist. All timelines where it did exist have been wiped out.

The machine removes stuff from time and shit happens.

It's a purely mechanical thing.

You know the poem about the nail?

For want of a nail, the shoe was lost.

For want of a shoe, the horse was lost.

For want of a horse, the knight was lost.

For want of a knight the battle was lost.

for want of a battle, the Kingdom was lost.

And so it was that the Kingdom was lost all for the want of a nail.

Unless the weapon was built from, or included something absolutely unique which they could never replace, getting rid of the raw supplies that built it would delay or speed up construction by days to weeks. Maybe even hours.

Annorax deciding to spend time with his family in the end was metaphysical almost. Unless he had time to spare, to spend with the wife precisely because there had been delays in supply of construction materials.

This delay.

This tiny momentary delay.

...Is probably when the Borg attacked the Krenim Empire and Seven of Nine assimilated Annorax or one of the underling flunky scientists in his workgroup who Janeway had that interesting conversation with in Infinite Regress.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Re: So why did 'USS Relativity' let Janeway rewrite history in Endgame

I do suspect that this technology did play a large role in 29th-century Starfleet tech - it is likely that the Krenim are members of the Federation in that era.

Considering the Federation of the 29th century arrests and tries people for crimes that alternate future versions of themselves did, I wouldn't be suprised if many unpleasent immoral aliens had joined and corrupted the Federation by that point.

 

[JB2005]

Re: So why did 'USS Relativity' let Janeway rewrite history in Endgame

Wonder if the Borg ever apply for membership, in the dim and distant future...

 

[F. King Daniel]

Re: So why did 'USS Relativity' let Janeway rewrite history in Endgame

The Federation assimilates the Borg?

 

[JB2005]

Re: So why did 'USS Relativity' let Janeway rewrite history in Endgame

Well Guinan does say in Q Who that one day the Federation will be able to have a relationship with the Borg...and she tends to know stuff!

 

[Guy Gardener]

Re: So why did 'USS Relativity' let Janeway rewrite history in Endgame

She only meant by that, in Q Who, that in the then and then the Borg only wanted their technology, but one day when the Collective got to know Humnaity better, learned to appreciate them, that the Borg would assimilate the Federation wholesale.

Surely that's what Guinan meant by "Relationship"?

A devious sense of humour this one has.

 

[JB2005]

Re: So why did 'USS Relativity' let Janeway rewrite history in Endgame

Was trying to find the exact quote on Memory Alpha...gave up when I spotted this gem...

"We have analyzed your defensive capabilities as being unable to withstand us. If you defend yourselves, you will be punished."

Does anyone else think that the Borg took the fact they were dressed as Dominatrixes just a little too far in Q Who...

 

[The Dominion]

Re: So why did 'USS Relativity' let Janeway rewrite history in Endgame

Kinky...

 

[JB2005]

Re: So why did 'USS Relativity' let Janeway rewrite history in Endgame

Good thing that after the Borg drilled a hole in Enterprise's Saucer, they didn't hang around...

 

[TedShatner10]

Re: So why did 'USS Relativity' let Janeway rewrite history in Endgame

Because the staff was so incredibly talented that they were able to conceive of realities beyond purely linear space-time.

Hmmm, didn't Braga cover that in his TNG episode "Parallels"?! With multiple realities branching off of each other constantly?

For the poll I selected "2", but it's really a combination of option 1 and 2. I liked to think Kes' family didn't rubbed out completely when Kes was replaced by Seven, but merely branched off into another reality.

 

[Lindley]

Re: So why did 'USS Relativity' let Janeway rewrite history in Endgame

I would have liked to have watched THAT Voyager series, not the one we ended up with. Think of all the races, exploring, adventures that the Voyager crew misses out on just so they can get home? I thought they were explorers!

In the novel line, the Federation's top minds are able to make Quantum Slipstream work and a fleet led by Voyager is sent back to the Delta Quadrant. Just FYI.