Shields Failing

[Into Darkness]

Why is it that during ship battles you'll hear "shields down to 60%" or "shields are down".

Surely shields will always remain up so long as you are supplying power to them. The shields should only drop in power or fail when you run out of power to supply to them.

I'm amazed at the number of times shielding has failed, yet the ship is still capable of firing weapons.
It would make more sense in a fight to keep your shields at maximum until you run out of power and then switch to pummelling the enemy with torpedos as the final resort.

Also to be frank, after a battle has taken place, the ship still seems to have a filled deuterium tank and are still able to just carry on as normal, warping off on their journey. If they still have plenty of deuterium and a functioning warp core, why did they ever run out of shield power during the fight?

 

[Longinus]

The shields obviously don't work as you assume. There's something else going on than mere power supply. I'd assume that there's some sort of a 'capacitor' that needs recharging, and it cannot happen instantly.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

There are shield generators, not to mention the shield control system. Any point in the series something could be overloaded and burn out/blow up.

It made more sense when they mentioned "numbered" shields. That would mean certain shield generators were inoperative while others were still working. Like with the Defiant, they could rotate and maneuver the ship to keep working shields facing the enemy at least.

 

[SWHouston]

I'm amazed at the number of times shielding has failed,

I'm not, they run a close second to Communications, Weapons, Sensors, and numerous others. Until we saw Rikers Enterprise, there has be absolutely NOTHING improved on Fleet Ships. Typical stick in the mud Fed approach to improve their technology. I suppose ramming the opponent seems to be the way out of trouble.

 

[C.E. Evans]

Whenever someone says shields are down to whatever, it's just a way of letting everyone know--especially the captain--how drained the shields are. It may be a case that because shields must allow "windows" for sensors, communications, & weapons, their efficiency can drop if they become overtaxed from major or repeated hits. In that regard, shields may be one of the most delicate systems on the ship.

 

[Timo]

We don't know for certain whether it's a bad thing to have 60% shields rather than 100% shields. I mean, the ship apparently gets damaged through both. It's definitely bad news if you get 0% shields, because then mere love taps will blow your ship to duranium toothpicks, but is there any drop in the protective effect when shield percentage goes from 100% to 1%? We can't readily tell.

That Picard can calmly count down his percentage points while Kirk never does may well tell us Picard's shields are much, much better...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Albertese]

...
That Picard can calmly count down his percentage points while Kirk never does may well tell us Picard's shields are much, much better...

Timo Saloniemi

This is a very interesting point that I had not considered before. Perhaps the apparently radical new shield system of the TMP refit took the technology in a new direction that matures by the time the E-D puts to sea (so to speak).

--Alex

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Why is it that during ship battles you'll hear "shields down to 60%" or "shields are down".

Surely shields will always remain up so long as you are supplying power to them. The shields should only drop in power or fail when you run out of power to supply to them.

I'm amazed at the number of times shielding has failed, yet the ship is still capable of firing weapons.
It would make more sense in a fight to keep your shields at maximum until you run out of power and then switch to pummelling the enemy with torpedos as the final resort.

Also to be frank, after a battle has taken place, the ship still seems to have a filled deuterium tank and are still able to just carry on as normal, warping off on their journey. If they still have plenty of deuterium and a functioning warp core, why did they ever run out of shield power during the fight?

It doesn't make any sense, and there's no logic behind it. The percentages exist purely for dramatic reasons, which is why they are used even for things that couldn't POSSIBLY have a measurable percentage (e.g. hull integrity, radiation lethality, the hull plating on the goddamn NX01).

It's just a tired scifi trope with no real basis. Kind of like how terrorist bombs always have a timer with a ticking clock or how villains always feel the need to gloat and/or overexplain their plans to the protagonists when they capture them.

Realistically, shield strength should be a function of thermal tolerance. Having to run the shields at all puts a certain strain on the shield generators (which are, if you think about it, more likely to be a component of the warp drive). Having to bear a heavier load -- e.g. heavy weapons fire or the constant bombardment of a million tons of small asteroids -- would not only draw more power from the ship's powerplant but would also generate a lot more heat that the cooling system has to get rid of. If the ship can't produce enough power to repel whatever's hitting it, then stuff actually punches THROUGH the deflectors and damages the ship anyway; there are probably certain weapons that are designed specifically to do this. On the other hand, sustained fire can cause the deflector systems to overheat, which will either seriously damage or disable the deflectors or force the crew to shut them down to avoid said damage. In the latter case, Scotty drops the deflectors for three minutes and flushes coolant like a madman while Sulu makes some daring evasive maneuvers to get the ship out of the line of fire; the bad guys catch up to them and get a shot and Scotty manages to bring the shields back up JUST IN TIME.

At least that's how it SHOULD work if the writers weren't basically employing videogame physics since TNG season 2.

 

[Serin117]

A thought: What if shield strength was measured as a combination of how much energy/heat can be dissipated back into space and how much is adsorbed by the shield array.
Brings up the idea of having some kind of capacitor system to draw incoming energy away from the shields and into storage.

 

[SWHouston]

I've always thought of them as two types. Deflection (reverse gravity for particulates) and Shunt (absorption for light/energy).

 

[Tribble puncher]

I always thought "hull integrity down to blah percent" was strange too.....Maybe it means something different, but it gives off the vibe when they say, "hull integrity down to 10%!" or whatever, that the ship is basically a flying swiss cheese at that point and anyone still alive should have been blown into space or something...but I'm sure it has something to do with the "structural integrity fields" and not the physical condition of the hull, I just think the verbage sounds misleading for dramatic purposes.

 

[DonIago]

Assuming the shields are a significant power drain, which seems reasonable, I might assume that "Shields at 60%" means the generators are overloaded or such to the point that they can only safely handle 60% of their typical load, which means the ship is only 60% as protected as it ideally should be.

As for hull integrity, I think the same logic might apply. The integrity itself is of course at 100% or the ship would start taking damage, but the ability to keep it at 100% has been compromised.

 

[SWHouston]

Iwhen they say, "hull integrity down to 10%!" or whatever, that the ship is basically a flying swiss cheese at that point

What it means that Geordi is nearly out of glue, and is handing out Chewing Gum.

 

[Tribble puncher]

What it means that Geordi is nearly out of glue, and is handing out Chewing Gum.

Its time to kick ass and chew gum......and I'm all outta gum....

 

[SWHouston]

Its time to kick ass and chew gum......and I'm all outta gum....

 

[Go-Captain]

The ability of shields to lose power as they are hit is likely a result of something like a capacitor. With this idea the ship cannot produce enough power to keep the shields up, it has to pre-charge a capacitor like device, and as long as the shields do not take damage the system sips power. If the shields take damage they cannot be topped off fast enough by available power. This fits with situations where "shields are holding" as in the shields have taken an amount of damage within the active recharge rate of the shield system.

There is also another way for shields to fail, they can be scrambled. The emitters or something get knocked out of wack, and the shield fails as a barrier. The shields can actually recover from this fairly easily and will regain what ever power level they had before getting knocked out. This is more likely what is going on when "shields are holding" as in the shield stability has remained optimal after a hit.

On the other hand, shield scrambling and percentages might all be the same thing. Scrambled shields might just be a particular form of misalignment which is easy to fix, where as percentage losses are something more severe. What really throws things into doubt is how the USS Equinox's captain says they can recharge their shields in minutes if they drop them. So, is it energy drain, or a hardware misalignment compensated for by software, or something else we don't know?

 

[SWHouston]

If you're expecting an EMF you cage the equipment. If you're expecting a concussive attack, you put up armor. If you're expecting shields attempted to be penetrated by varying frequency, you task the ships computer to vary the frequency, and not rely on verbal commands/permission to Data to execute that procedure, he's got other things to do. Propulsion and Shields should be the absolute first in line of defense, not the last. These omissions in line with the writers lending their ability's to make Fed equipment seem to be total junk.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

The ability of shields to lose power as they are hit is likely a result of something like a capacitor. With this idea the ship cannot produce enough power to keep the shields up, it has to pre-charge a capacitor like device, and as long as the shields do not take damage the system sips power. If the shields take damage they cannot be topped off fast enough by available power. This fits with situations where "shields are holding" as in the shields have taken an amount of damage within the active recharge rate of the shield system...

Only problem with that is, shield percentages never go back UP. If they were recharging a capacitor than "get out of the line of fire and let the shields recharge" would be a valid tactic. Starfleet officers never seem to think of this, though, almost as if it's simply not possible to do.

 

[Go-Captain]

Only problem with that is, shield percentages never go back UP. If they were recharging a capacitor than "get out of the line of fire and let the shields recharge" would be a valid tactic. Starfleet officers never seem to think of this, though, almost as if it's simply not possible to do.

The way the fights go there is almost never a chance to get away and quickly come back. Ships rarely outrun each other except at warp, and if you can outrun the other guy, and need your shields to top off, you might be better off just running. Battles also tend to take place in deep space where there is no cover.

However, Equinox did shut their shields down so they would recharge faster, and the Enterprise facing Kevin Uxbridge had its shields reassemble within minutes after getting completely scrambled by a low energy attack. I don't recall the specific recharge time frame for the shutdown shields, but it was several minutes, definitely less than 10 minutes. Even a rate like that is slow, and likely wouldn't result in appreciable recovery in most of the battles we have seen.

 

[kazemiya]

Oh the shield.. so far i know about shield in star trek universe is pretty much like go captain said. the defensive shielding could be failed during battle, but not the power that supplying it. Once the shield is weakened, they will be charged through time, but ussualy there are not enough time during combat to reach adequate level of shield integrity to take another punishment. So when the shield generator is offline (damaged) or the shield reach 0% ,they will take forever to fully charge it again. And the percentage of remaining ship is refer to a total remaining shield power for all six sections. And the shield is should always be "on" as long as they are supplied by power is also true, but there is certain level like 1% or less that could be considered failing. And the measurement of the shield is about the concentration of gravitons around the object. So the less concentration, the less the percentage is.

Why is it that during ship battles you'll hear "shields down to 60%" or "shields are down".

Surely shields will always remain up so long as you are supplying power to them. The shields should only drop in power or fail when you run out of power to supply to them.

I'm amazed at the number of times shielding has failed, yet the ship is still capable of firing weapons.

"The shields should only drop in power or fail when you run out of power to supply to them." I guess you'r referring to the Force Field.
In Star Trek universe there are two kind of shield that protecting the ship. First is the one we already know, external force field that when activated, produced a "bubble" around the generating object, known as defensive shield. It's protect the ship from enemy fire.
The other is the force field. U might heard sometimes like "Emergency force field in place and holding". This type of shield enhanced the structural integrity of the ship thus they could absorb more mechanical stress.
This force fields usefull in the event of an outer hull breached, to protect the damaged part from the influences of space, such as bridge, at the same time they prevented decompression of the entire deck. If the main defensive force field was ruptured and a section of the ship was destroyed, it took longer for the computer to re-establish the structural integrity depend on the severity of the damage. In this short space of time, sections of a vessel could indeed be exposed to the vacuum of space. Such like the when Scimitar fires on the Enterprise E bridge, which destroys the viewscreen and causes a massive hull breach which blows the helmsman, Leutenant Branson, out into space, before the force field able to re-established.