Spoilers Rings of Power Season 2 Rating and Review and Discussion Thread: Spoilers inside.

[Turtletrekker]

I quite enjoyed season 2. A lot more than I did season 1.
Yes, it does take liberties with the source material, but so did the LOTR movies. I'm ok with it.

Do we know if season 3 has been greenlit yet?

Part of the deal that the Tolkien estate made with Amazon was that Amazon was contractually obligated to make all five seasons regardless of ratings. Luckily for Amazon, that seems to be working out for them.

As for the liberties taken, I've decided that the best way to enjoy this show is to be flexible and not worry too much about strict adherence to the Tolkien canon. You mentioned that the Jackson movies are not canon. However, they are canon within themselves and that is the canon that I am holding the show to rather than the lore, if that makes sense.

The purists are not the target audience, the movie fans are. I expect, and will be perfectly happy with, getting a broad strokes version of the second age events that puts things nicely in their place for the Jackson movies much in the same way that Revenge of the Sith put all the pieces in place for A New Hope.

If that means we see certain things out of sequence like perhaps the founding of the Shire, or Cirdan passing his ring on to Gandalf as early as the second age... well, like I said, I'm just going to be flexible and enjoy the ride.

As for the broad strokes version that I mentioned, certain events that I think we need to see in future seasons include the following...

Spoiler: Not everyone's read the books

• Elrond heading north and founding Rivendell.
• Galadriel going east through the mountain to Lothlorian
• Sauron forging the one ring and gathering his armies.
• Pharazon learning of Sauron and bringing his forces to Middle-Earth.
• Sauron's armies immediately surrender upon looking at the size of the Numenorean host and Sauron changes his plan and allows himself to be captured to corrupt Numenor from within.
• At some point, Isildur should return to Numenor because he has some work to do to save the tree, although they might relegate that to a different family member.
• Sauron will corrupt Pharazon, burn down the tree and erect a temple to Morgoth, and start sacrificing the faithful to Morgoth.
• Sauron will convince Pharazon to attack Valinor.
• Elindil and Isildur will take nine ships of the faithful to Middle Earth.
• Eru destroys Pharazan's troops the moment they set foot on Valinor and sinks Numenor to the bottom of the sea. Sauron should be on Numenor during the cataclysm and will lose his ability to take fair form.
• Isildur and his brother will found the kingdom of Gondor in the south and Elindil will found the kingdom of Arnor in the North, while Sauron returns to Mordor.
• When Sauron's survival is revealed, the elves and the men form the last alliance.
• Isildur will gather armies, and one group will break their oath to Gondor and Isildur will curse them to 3000 years under the mountain until they are freed by Aragorn.
• Then, the final battle as depicted in the opening scenes of Fellowship of the Ring.

Have I missed any important events?

 

[Mage]

Part of the deal that the Tolkien estate made with Amazon was that Amazon was contractually obligated to make all five seasons regardless of ratings. Luckily for Amazon, that seems to be working out for them.

As for the liberties taken, I've decided that the best way to enjoy this show is to be flexible and not worry too much about strict adherence to the Tolkien canon. You mentioned that the Jackson movies are not canon. However, they are canon within themselves and that is the canon that I am holding the show to rather than the lore, if that makes sense.

The purists are not the target audience, the movie fans are. I expect, and will be perfectly happy with, getting a broad strokes version of the second age events that puts things nicely in their place for the Jackson movies much in the same way that Revenge of the Sith put all the pieces in place for A New Hope.

If that means we see certain things out of sequence like perhaps the founding of the Shire, or Cirdan passing his ring on to Gandalf as early as the second age... well, like I said, I'm just going to be flexible and enjoy the ride.

As for the broad strokes version that I mentioned, certain events that I think we need to see in future seasons include the following...

Spoiler: Not everyone's read the books

• Elrond heading north and founding Rivendale.
• Galadriel going east through the mountain to Lothlorian
• Sauron forging the one ring and gathering his armies.
• Pharazon learning of Sauron and bringing his forces to Middle-Earth.
• Sauron's armies immediately surrender upon looking at the size of the Numenorean host and Sauron changes his plan and allows himself to be captured to corrupt Numenor from within.
• At some point, Isildur should return to Numenor because he has some work to do to save the tree, although they might relegate that to a different family member.
• Sauron will corrupt Pharazon, burn down the tree and erect a temple to Morgoth, and start sacrificing the faithful to Morgoth.
• Sauron will convince Pharazon to attack Valinor.
• Elindil and Isildur will take nine ships of the faithful to Middle Earth.
• Eru destroys Pharazan's troops the moment they set foot on Valinor and sinks Numenor to the bottom of the sea. Sauron should be on Numenor during the cataclysm and will lose his ability to take fair form.
• Isildur and his brother will found the kingdom of Gondor in the south and Elindil will found the kingdom of Arnor in the North, while Sauron returns to Mordor.
• When Sauron's survival is revealed, the elves and the men form the last alliance.
• Isildur will gather armies, and one group will break their oath to Gondor and Isildur will curse them to 3000 years under the mountain until they are freed by Aragorn.
• Then, the final battle as depicted in the opening scenes of Fellowship of the Ring.

Have I missed any important events?

Spoiler

I believe on of the last scenes of season 2 showed Isildur on a ship back to Numenor, right?

 

[Turtletrekker]

derp.

I had forgotten that.

 

[Nerys Myk]

derp.

I had forgotten that.

He's gotta use those frequent sailor miles.

 

[Commander Troi]

Elrond heading north and founding Rivendale.

I think we basically did that at the end of season 2. Or at least found a location.

 

[Nerys Myk]

A great site for teenaged hijinks.

 

[Skywalker]

Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if we see Rivendell under construction during season 3. Although I don't expect we'll see it in its full glory until season 5, since I figure there has to be some kind of time jump around then to give the Dúnedain time to establish Arnor and Gondor before the War of the Last Alliance.

 

[Reverend]

Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if we see Rivendell under construction during season 3. Although I don't expect we'll see it in its full glory until season 5, since I figure there has to be some kind of time jump around then to give the Dúnedain time to establish Arnor and Gondor before the War of the Last Alliance.

Given how ridiculously compressed and askew the timeline already appears to be compared to the source material, I wouldn't be shocked if all of that gets crammed together too.

Indeed I could easily see them ultimately hand-waving the Dúnedain, Arnor, and even Gondor as something that all happened *after* the Last Alliance, so they don't have to bother dealing with it. I suppose it really all depends on how many more seasons the show goes for, and at what point it'll eventually leave off from.

 

[Skywalker]

We'll hopefully get five full seasons. But yeah, because of the timeline compression I can see them waiting until after the war to establish the two kingdoms. I'm definitely in the camp that thinks Theo is going to turn out to be the King of the Dead, and he ain't gonna be alive for the century-plus it takes for the Faithful to land in Middle-earth, establish the Realms in Exile, and then go to war against Sauron.

 

[JD]

I could maybe see some kind of small time jump so we can go from the start of the war to the end of the war in the time span of the series without making the war incredibly short. But I wouldn't expect it to be more than a few years, like maybe 5 or 10, that way they can give stuff time to develop, but it wouldn't be so far that they can't still use all the same actors for the mortal characters.

 

[Skywalker]

Númenóreans can live for a couple of centuries, so there's no problem there. It's really just the Low Men like Theo (and presumably Estrid) where a long time jump would be an issue.

 

[JD]

Oh right, I forgot they live the Numenoreans lived that long. If they do a time jump, I could see them recasting Theo a bit older so he can play a more active role in the war and possibly become more of a leader for his people.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Númenóreans can live for a couple of centuries, so there's no problem there. It's really just the Low Men like Theo (and presumably Estrid) where a long time jump would be an issue.

Not if Theo had a ring.

 

[Mage]

Not if Theo had a ring.

Do all Rings give unnaturally long life? We know the One did, but I can't recall about the rest.

 

[Reverend]

Yeah, Theo pretty much has to be either the King of the Dead, or the once and future Witchking of Angmar. If for no other reason than because at this point, Theo is one of only two established human characters of note who aren't Numenorean. Bad enough the show hardly bothered depicting the other six Dwarf Lords; it'd be very off if *all* of the nine go to randos.

Do all Rings give unnaturally long life? We know the One did, but I can't recall about the rest.

The Nazgul were all still around by end of the Third Age, were they not? Also, it's not long life so much as long *existence*. Stretching a moral life to infinity through the unseen world is what turns them into wraiths in the first place.

 

[EyalM]

The season was a mixed bag for me.
I thought the Elves and Sauron plot was fine. But they clearly don't know what they are doing with Gandalf. A character discovering what we already know is not a good hook. The Numenoreans' political strife is also not very interesting.
One thing that did bug me with the Sauron plot, is that we didn't know why the orcs turned on him at the beginning, and why they did a 180 at the end of the season. Seems like a very important piece of missing information.

 

[Mage]

The Nazgul were all still around by end of the Third Age, were they not? Also, it's not long life so much as long *existence*. Stretching a moral life to infinity through the unseen world is what turns them into wraiths in the first place.

Exactly. Can't really call them human or alive anymore. Say what you want, but Gollum was very much alive.
Which was my point. The One Ring gave people long life. The others didn't. Whatever happened there, is not life.

 

[Turtletrekker]

From Tolkien letter 131, by way of Tolkien Gateway, under "Characteristics: Powers and Properties."

"The Rings of Power all had common properties. The elves of Eregion created the Rings to preserve their lands, attempting to make them as beautiful as Valinor. Thus, a primary power of the Rings was to prevent and decelerate decay and change."

https://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Rings_of_Power

He says "all" of the rings, so I imagine that it would decelerate the aging of mortal creatures such as men and hobbits. However, I think part of the point here is the fact that neither Man nor Hobbit are meant for immortality. This is why they eventually fade like "butter spread across too much bread" and become wraiths. This is why Eru gifted the men of Numenor the gift of extended life but not immortality. This is why... certain events yet to come in the show will transpire.

 

[TedShatner10]

Season 2 has been a big upgrade over the solid Season 1.

And fuck me, Sauron (BTW Charlie Vickers was decent in S1 and an absolute revelation in S2) has become far too much of a self-righteous, traumatised, and delusional psychopath of Lovecraftian proportions to be trusted with a lemonade stand, let alone Middle Earth (and in his primal state the many, many centuries of evil deeds reduced him to a greyish, blackish blob).

 

[Reverend]

Exactly. Can't really call them human or alive anymore. Say what you want, but Gollum was very much alive.
Which was my point. The One Ring gave people long life. The others didn't. Whatever happened there, is not life.

Smegol's existence really stretches the definition of "alive". Yes, he we still a physical being of flesh and blood, but his life such as it was, was wretched and fixated solely on the One Ring. That's not living in any meaningful sense.

Remember that the nine didn't appear as actual ringwraiths until about 700 after the forging of the rings of power. It took that long for those men to become totally subsumed by the rings, and enslaved. On top of that I'm pretty sure that they didn't loose their physical form until Sauron lost his when the ring was cut from his finger.

Sméagol by contrast "only" had the ring for 500 years, and Halflings have proven to be much more resistant to the ring than men.

So yeah, if we could see one of the nine a few centuries prior to becoming actual wraiths, they'd probably look just as "alive" as we see Golum in the books.