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Revisiting the Breen

Nerroth

Commodore
Commodore
Apologies if I should have posted this in a pre-existing thread, such as this one: but I've been thinking of late as to whether or not one of the current (or forthcoming) series might benefit from taking a second look at the Breen.

In terms of who (or what) they are as a species, there is something to be said for the option of not ever actually showing this in canon. But then, as noted over on Memory Alpha, the novelverse had an interesting approach, in that there might not be one Breen species, but rather a group of them which use the same encounter suit when dealing with outsiders. Indeed, even if one or more such member species were to be shown, there could be others which could be said to exist in-universe that remain "off-camera" when out of the suits. (Actually, since the old suits were reported as being quite awkward for actors to wear, perhaps a modern revision could be made which kept much of the Breen aesthetic while making it less of a struggle to actually use on-set.)

So far as their starship technology goes, the one ship class thus far portrayed for them has that distinct asymmetrical design. There could be other ship types (and/or different eras of starship evolution) in the Breen armada - not least ones which could lean more heavily towards their reported use of organic technology.

Actually, of the various belligerents involved in the Dominion War, the Breen Confederacy didn't end it in all that bad of a position. While a number of Breen warships were destroyed in that conflict, they scored some large-scale successes along the way - not least of which being the first alien force since the Xindi to actually land hits on Earth's surface. Plus, not only did they have relatively unfettered access to Dominion and Cardassian data files (which they no doubt sent copies of back home) during their time in the war, the terms of the Treaty of Bajor were such that they are now effectively off the hook for any decisions being made by (or as regards to) the Founders over in the Gamma Quadrant. And it would appear that they were able to effectively outsource any of their civilian or logistical dangers to Cardassia: so far as we are aware, the Breen home systems and fleet yards survived the war relatively intact.

For one thing, I could well imagine their ranking on Section 31's hit list being significantly moved up in the wake of that attack on Earth...

So, between their distinct starship technology, their potential as a long-range threat to Federation interests in a post-war Alpha Quadrant, plus the lingering question as to what manner of species (singular or plural) the Breen themselves happen to be, I wonder if the Breen might make for a compelling set of adversaries in one of the current (or pending) crop of Franchise series.

Do you agree? If so, where (and how) would you like to see the Breen revisited? And if not, what about them puts you off from wishing to see them make any sort of return?
 
There was once a time, probably 20 years ago, that I was interested about seeing more of the Breen. Now, I don’t really care all that much about it.
 
To me they were just a shallow gimmick. They were needed as a reason the dominion threat was increasing that's it.
 
I'm very fond of the Breen. They took down the Defiant, turned away a Klingon invasion fleet and attacked Starfleet HQ... I like the look of them and the mystery surrounding them.

Not sure where they'd fit in or for what show but there's room for development. Maybe as a Starfleet officer in the 32nd century?

Interesting tidbit from Ira Steven Behr on Memory Alpha:

"There's nothing in those helmets. I don't think there's a guy in there, which is something we never got around to saying ... or maybe there's a little slug, some tiny little creature in there. I never wanted them to be humanoid in any way."
 
Weren't Breen helmets just painted Star Wars ones? So if they bring them back it means they'll change them... which means another tedious fanwank explosion about changing alien designs on Star Trek.

Joy.

They look similar to what Leia wore in Return of the Jedi, but no. Original creations that were apparently a piece of shit to wear and move around in with almost zero vision available from inside the mask. Apparently the Breen used to crash into everything all the time.
 
The Breen as presented in DS9 really weren’t all that interesting. They were just faceless bad guys with no personality at all. Somebody else even had to translate what they said. They might as well have just been androids. The only reason why people get hung up on them was because you couldn’t see what they looked like and that there were constant little hints about their society that you weren’t sure whether they were true or not.

Reading the Memory Alpha article about them, I learned something I didn’t know before. The original idea, back during TNG, was that the Breen were going to be the fifth main superpower after the Federation, Klingons, Romulans and Cardassians. Apparently the sixth season finale of TNG was originally supposed to be about them with basically a peace-treaty-gone-wrong scenario. I’m assuming that if this episode happened, the Breen would have been portrayed very differently from their later appearance in DS9, not the least of which being that we’d know what they look like.
 
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Weren't Breen helmets just painted Star Wars ones?
No
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Uh^ there is a resemblance.

Interesting tidbit from Ira Steven Behr on Memory Alpha:
"There's nothing in those helmets. I don't think there's a guy in there, which is something we never got around to saying ... or maybe there's a little slug, some tiny little creature in there. I never wanted them to be humanoid in any way."

That is very interesting. A totally non-humanoid life form masquerading as one. I like it! I like it a lot!

So if they bring them back it means they'll change them... which means another tedious fanwank explosion about changing alien designs on Star Trek.

Joy.

<steps out window>
 
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Not sure where they'd fit in or for what show but there's room for development. Maybe as a Starfleet officer in the 32nd century?

In live action terms, I was wondering if the Breen might work as potential objects of further investigation in the forthcoming Section 31 series, depending on which time period that show ends up taking place in. Particularly if it turned out that the Terrans never quite made it as far out as Breen space during Emperor Georgiou's time in the Mirror Universe, in which case even she would not have prior knowledge about them.

Alternatively, perhaps they could show up as recurring antagonists on Lower Decks - in which case one could side-step the issue of how to modify the suit designs in order to make them more easily wearable.

Reading the Memory Alpha article about them, I learned something I didn’t know before. The original idea, back during TNG, was that the Breen were going to be the fifth main superpower after the Federation, Klingons, Romulans and Cardassians. Apparently the sixth season finale of TNG was originally supposed to be about them with basically a peace-treaty-gone-wrong scenario. I’m assuming that if this episode happened, the Breen would have been portrayed very differently from their later appearance in DS9, not the least of which being that we’d know what they look like.

Between the Dominion withdrawal back to the Gamma Quadrant, the ongoing reconstruction efforts in Cardassian space, and the aftershocks from the destruction of Romulus, there could still be a potential for the Breen to emerge as a more serious rival to the Federation and Klingons by the turn of the 25th Century.

And there had been reports of clashes with Breen privateers even before they entered the Dominion War. We know that the Breen in wartime can launch long-range strikes reaching as far as the Sol system - but it could be that even in "peacetime", their raiding forces can strike at a significant distance from Breen home space. In other words, a future show need not turn its focus on the Breen Confederacy proper in order to have Breen ships show up to cause trouble.
 
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I dunno. As I mentioned before, if they had developed them better immediately after DS9, I might have been interested. As it stands now, 20+ years later, my enthusiasm has completely drained. I could really care less about the Breen at this point, and I’m not sure why they would need to be reintroduced.
 
Uh^ there is a resemblance.
Please tell me what paint job could have produced the Breen helmet from the Ubeese one?

I dunno. As I mentioned before, if they had developed them better immediately after DS9, I might have been interested. As it stands now, 20+ years later, my enthusiasm has completely drained. I could really care less about the Breen at this point, and I’m not sure why they would need to be reintroduced.
Same here. It feels like whatever ideas the OP has about them will be more interesting that whatever a show does with them.
 
Uh^ there is a resemblance.

There is a resemblance, but it’s not the case. I don’t think they made more than one or two Ubeese helmets, because only one was seen onscreen.

I don’t think anyone who’s familiar with both Star Trek and DS9 could look at either and not make an association, but it’s not reused Star Wars stuff.

Are there any examples of Star Wars and Star Trek sharing props or costumes? I know there’s more than one instance of Star Wars sharing with Doctor Who, but that comes out of a British connection in production.
 
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They look similar to what Leia wore in Return of the Jedi, but no. Original creations that were apparently a piece of shit to wear and move around in with almost zero vision available from inside the mask. Apparently the Breen used to crash into everything all the time.

Maybe that's the real reason you're not supposed to turn your back on them.

I could really care less

Oh good, there's still hope.
 
I feel some are too quick to slam doors shut on opportunities. The Klingons of TOS were just black hats but subsequent series developed them. Why not the Breen?
 
Oh good, there's still hope.

I wouldn't count on it.

I feel some are too quick to slam doors shut on opportunities. The Klingons of TOS were just black hats but subsequent series developed them. Why not the Breen?

The problem with 'developing' the Breen is that once you fill in the blanks about an alien race who no one has ever seen and all info about them is suspect (which was the point of making them that mysterious in the first place), then all the mystery is gone and whatever they come up with will pale in comparison to what our imaginations envisioned.
 
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Like what?

I’m not sure what you are asking.

The problem with 'developing' the Breen is that once you fill in the blanks about an alien race who no one has ever seen and all info about them is suspect (which was the point of making them that mysterious in the first place), then all the mystery is gone and whatever they come up with will pale in comparison to what our imaginations envisioned.

By that measure though we would never have learned anything about the Romulans beyond Balance of Terror.

There must be a way to do a story about the Breen whilst retaining mystery. The right story could even deepen the mystery.

I want to clarify that I’m not a person who wants to see the Breen back or even really cares either way. I just feel it could be done if the story was right. That’s not controversial surely?
 
Like what kind of development? What could be done?

I don’t know? I’m far from being a writer.

Off the top of my head:

Homeworld
Culture
History
Appearance
Society

The usual blanks that get filled in.

I’m not saying it should be done or that I want it to be done. I’m saying it could be done and in the right hands it wouldn’t necessarily be a bad thing.
 
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