Pirate Hunting Starships!?

[Redshirt214]

So I’m working on a role playing campaign for some friends of mine that is set in an updated version of the Triangle system from the old Fasa game, circa 2373, the first year of the Dominion War.

I’m working out the deployments for the sector, and contemplating which types of Starships would be well suited for hunting pirates and other picket duties inside the Triangle, with the presumption that heavier vessels are probably positioned patrolling the borders of the region rather than being in the region itself.

The first thoughts that spring to mind are the Miranda and Centaur classes, as both are light and relatively available ships that would I think do well chasing down pirate vessels. Other thoughts might be something like Sabre class ships, but I feel like more modern ships would be assigned to the front lines and not hunting down pirates at this juncture. I could also see ships like perhaps the Springfield class serving there as well. I’d be interested in others input, though… what would make the best pirate hunter ship?

I am also thinking there would be some aspects of the larger war involved too: potentially Dominion-Cardassian ships transiting Romulan space to attack the Klingons and Federation? And potentially Dominion visits to the unaligned worlds in the sector… so probably a good idea to have a ship that punches above its weight!

I’m using a system of my own devising for this, so what ship the PCs inhabit is largely a matter of flavor…

 

[Redshirt214]

In terms of technical ability, aside from good armaments and maneuverability, I’m imagining that having decent sensors might be a something a pirate hunter would need? Since it would need to be able to detect attacks on merchant vessels and come rushing to their aide… which might also imply you’d need a ship with decent warp speed too. That may hurt the older ships in consideration. On the other hand, pirate hunting is probably not a prestigious posting so maybe you don’t send your latest and best ships to do it…

 

[Ithekro]

New Orleans-class would probably fit that roll with a mix of extra sensor pods, torpedo launchers, cargo bays (for contraband) and all its regular equipment.

 

[Vagabond Elf]

Well, first you have to make some decisions about what the pirates are capable of. Given that you're setting this during the Dominion War, Starfleet is going to use the smallest and least capable vessel that can probably handle the pirates. Indeed, the brass probably doesnt' even expect the ship to be able to defeat the pirate in a straight up fight - just get there in time to make the pirates decide this is all too expensive and go somewhere else. Realistically, something like an armed runabout is probably all the ship that would be needed. Pirates are in the job to make wealth, and fighting even a small fleet vessel yields nothing but cost.

Narratively that's not all that exciting, I suppose, so I'd agree that something like a Centaur or a Springfield or a Freedom make sense. Maybe the Cheyennes? All of these are ships not seen fighting the Dominion, so they must have been doing something. Since the Mirandas are heavily represented in the fleet actions, they're probably not doing behind the scenes work. And, of course, there's the ubiquitous Oberths.

An armed merchant ship could be interesting, too. During the Second World War the RN, RCN, and RAN all operated large numbers of Armed Merchant Cruisers, where they took larger civilian ships and put guns on them, and these mostly served as either convoy escorts or doing security patrols in low-threat areas. Something like the T'Pau type or the Raven type that has been refit as a lightly armed vessel patrolling behind the lines could give you both narrative tension - it wouldn't be much more capable than the pirates it was engaging - and narrative freedom, because you don't have to figure out what the other five hundred crew members who aren't PCs are doing.

 

[publiusr]

The Wasp/Hornet line was intended to fight pirates:

Star Trek Blueprints: General Plans and Specifications of the U.S.S. Hornet NCC-9700

Cygnus-X1.Net: A Tribute to Star Trek

www.cygnus-x1.net

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[Redshirt214]

Interesting suggestions everyone!

I’ve been cogitating more on the matter and I’m coming to the conclusion that one of the key plot points is going to be dealing with Cardassian/Dominion infiltrations on top of the pirates, making use of Jem Hadar bug ships and Hikdeki class scouts… which I feel like all the candidates thus far should be able to handle easily. It might also be the case that the pirates are receiving funding from the Dominion to distract and harass Federation shipping, and they’d probably be trying to sway the neutral planets to their side as well. I’m not sure if lore wise it makes sense that the Romulans would allow Dominion aligned ships to travel through their space, I was positing some sort of transit arrangement though in the neutrality treaty they signed though? Perhaps they would be more amenable to Cardassian ships since they were before the war allied.

I’ve always thought that the Miranda class’ prevalence during the war was due mainly to having a bigger production run than pre-Galaxy ships of a more modern flavor, but possibly they were better suited to combat given their design era than other modern ships that were more exploration focused.

Oberths strike me as the perfect “ship that needs rescue”, more than a PC ship.

What about a ship like the USS Jupp?

USS Jupp

The USS Jupp was a kitbash studio model built by the VFX house hired by Paramount Pictures for special effects in the Star Trek: Deep Space Nine sixth season episode "A Time to Stand". The Jupp was made with parts from the refit Constitution-class starship studio model that bore a likeness to...

memory-alpha.fandom.com

She’s perhaps not as pretty as a Miranda class but is of the same age, perhaps slightly less capable as she has only forward firing torpedoes, and no megaphasers. And she’s definitely something fished out from reserves…

 

[Redshirt214]

Alternatively, I suppose the pirates could be supplied weapons and equipment from the Dominion, which they would be free to buy as they are based on neutral worlds, and which might be delivered over the border from the Romulans. I’m thinking something akin to letters of marque and state backed terrorist organizations here… war can be a good thing for Pirates, providing it never gets so hot that operations become unprofitable.

Maybe getting free Cardassian built ships in exchange for agreeing to only raid Federation and Klingon ships would be worth it to pirates?

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Why would the Dominion supply 3rd Party / Outsiders when they could do everything that the Pirates do, themselves, better, & more effectively?

The Dominion have their own easily manufacturable man-power in the Jem'Hadar & their Bug Ships.

If you had Orion Pirates, I could understand and the Orion Syndicate expanding.

Ferengi Pirates make sense.

Breen Pirates make sense.

 

[Jedi Marso]

For pirate hunting in general, you'd want a lean, fast ship with good sensors that punches above her weight. Small enough to lie in ambush or be inconspicuous when needed, but still large and fast enough to get the job done. The 24th century of a 5th or 6th rate from the age of sail.

Another in-game option would be to issue letters of marque and reprisal against the pirates, utilizing the skill and knowhow of the Orions. Use a thief to catch a thief- that sort of thing. Anyway, hope your group has tons of fun!

 

[BK613]

The mission profile also suggests a ship design that is meant to deploy for weeks or months instead of years. Patrolling from a home base rather than independent cruising.
So some of the creature comforts needed for long duration missions—individual quarters, holodecks, gyms, bowling alleys—can be nixed in lieu of better shields, faster engines and tougher weapons.

 

[Airmandan]

I know this would probably be a stereotypical answer, but I could see mothballed Constitution classes being utilized for this kind for duty. Big enough to be multirole and given the capabilities of the 24th century you could have them mostly automated allowing for smaller crew sizes.

 

[Redshirt214]

Why would the Dominion supply 3rd Party / Outsiders when they could do everything that the Pirates do, themselves, better, & more effectively?

The Dominion have their own easily manufacturable man-power in the Jem'Hadar & their Bug Ships.

If you had Orion Pirates, I could understand and the Orion Syndicate expanding.

Ferengi Pirates make sense.

Breen Pirates make sense.

My general thought was that, much like the Breen, the Dominion would be interested in manipulating neutral planets and other factions to their advantage… every asset that Starfleet has to devote to dealing with pirates would take away from the larger war effort. And the less stability in the Alpha Quadrant the better for them. Upon reflection though, maybe it would be more of a situation where they send a Changeling to manipulate people than something where they are actually providing equipment.

The Dominion does raid pretty deep into Federation and Klingon territory so if they make an appearance maybe it’ll be more explicitly the Jem’Hadar. That’s a sort of end game, conflicts escalate, type of scenario though.

I do like the idea of Breen pirates, potentially having Dominion backing as they start to develop an alliance… in which case I need to find a Breen ship without that energy weapon?

Ferengi and Orion pirates are definitely also in the mix!

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

My general thought was that, much like the Breen, the Dominion would be interested in manipulating neutral planets and other factions to their advantage… every asset that Starfleet has to devote to dealing with pirates would take away from the larger war effort. And the less stability in the Alpha Quadrant the better for them. Upon reflection though, maybe it would be more of a situation where they send a Changeling to manipulate people than something where they are actually providing equipment.

Changelings are their normal Modus Operandi when it comes to manipulating their enemy forces.

The Dominion does raid pretty deep into Federation and Klingon territory so if they make an appearance maybe it’ll be more explicitly the Jem’Hadar. That’s a sort of end game, conflicts escalate, type of scenario though.

I do like the idea of Breen pirates, potentially having Dominion backing as they start to develop an alliance… in which case I need to find a Breen ship without that energy weapon?

Ferengi and Orion pirates are definitely also in the mix!

But when Dominion Raid, they do it themselves or have their allied forces do it with them and use them as meat shields.

Just look at the Dominion War and see what actually happened. The Cardassians were turned into Cannon Fodder for the Jem'Hadar.

The only reason the Breen were able to get in so deep to attack Earth was because they were a "Surprise Heel Turn (Pro Wrestling Terminology)".

Spoiler: Venom Geek Media - The Breen Attack on Earth' Battlespace: The Dominion War

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Venom Geek Media does a good Audio / Image Re-Enactment of the Breen Surprise Attack.

 

[Redshirt214]

The mission profile also suggests a ship design that is meant to deploy for weeks or months instead of years. Patrolling from a home base rather than independent cruising.
So some of the creature comforts needed for long duration missions—individual quarters, holodecks, gyms, bowling alleys—can be nixed in lieu of better shields, faster engines and tougher weapons.

I like this line of thought… the PC that’s earmarked for command is very much the sort who would be interested in a ship more focused on combat than creature comforts.

 

[Redshirt214]

Changelings are their normal Modus Operandi when it comes to manipulating their enemy forces.


But when Dominion Raid, they do it themselves or have their allied forces do it with them and use them as meat shields.

Just look at the Dominion War and see what actually happened. The Cardassians were turned into Cannon Fodder for the Jem'Hadar.

The only reason the Breen were able to get in so deep to attack Earth was because they were a "Surprise Heel Turn (Pro Wrestling Terminology)".

Spoiler: Venom Geek Media - The Breen Attack on Earth' Battlespace: The Dominion War

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Venom Geek Media does a good Audio / Image Re-Enactment of the Breen Surprise Attack.

Interesting… I was primarily thinking about the Battle of Betazed in all this and rather forgot about the Breen attack on Earth.

I guess the question then is whether or not Breen would have any involvement in piracy though given their xenophobia?

In any case, I’m sure having Changlings infiltrate a variety of neutral worlds governments and other factions in order to harass the Federation and it’s allies would be exactly the kind of thing the Dominion would do as part of a larger strategy.

 

[Redshirt214]

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For reference, this is the region of space I’m setting things in, using this very map as it happens.

I’m trying to integrate the time period and setting in interesting and unexpected ways, hence all my tangents here.

But to refocus and based on what others have said: I think what I’m looking for is maybe a destroyer escort type starship, maybe with the roles of both patrol and convoy escort, based out of Starbase 234.

Maybe, because of the war, there are regular convoys through the region between the Federation and Klingon Empire? And they get handed off somewhere in neutral here, a la the US-Soviet lend lease convoys.

Likely piratical opponents seem likely to be in the destroyer-frigate size range at maximum, or at least the ships she’s meant to fight vs run from.

The pirates have been operating for years in the area, but commerce was waning before the war. Now though they have a target rich environment. Any convoy stragglers become easy pickings… and probably the Dominion wants to disrupt the convoys too!

Does all this sound reasonable enough? I’m generally liking the idea of assigning an older ship to this role as it strikes me as a very interesting secondary role to explore story wise.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

If you want to have a cool "Pirate Hunter" StarShip.

Here's what a true "Hero Ship" should look like.

Now this set of scenes is from the new Gundam Seed Freedom Movie, which is a sequel movie to the TV series consisting of "Gundam Seed" & "Gundam Seed Destiny".

Spoiler: Gundam Seed Freedom.Millennium Best Scenes

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The 'LHM-BB03S Millennium' is the new "Hero Ship" for our Protagonists and the Protagonist's Crew literally goes "AWOL" & hijacks the ship to solve the major plot/crisis of the movie.

They considered themselves renegades/pirates since all the crew on-board were willing to defect & violate the chain of command to solve the major plot/crisis.

Your "Hero Pirate-Hunter StarShip" should be on this level of "BadAss-Ness" and can solve nearly every solution on their own or with the help of fighter craft.

 

[Vagabond Elf]

I think the Jupp would be a good choice for a ship - it's basically a two-engined lollipop, and I have always liked the lollipops. And it's clearly an older class of vessel, with TWOK-era equipment, so it probably isn't capable of standing in a modern battle line, meaning she's not needed anywhere else. I'd just call her an "escort," though, or possibly a "frigate" - Starfleet really avoids martial ship names, so "destroyer" doesn't belong. (Also, in World War 2 a US "destroyer escort" was what everyone else called a "frigate," but the USN sailors objected to being "downgraded" from destoyermen so the US Navy called the ships "destroyer escorts" so the sailors would shut up and get on with the war. Kind of the opposite problem of what Starfleet would have.)

I don't remember the details of the Dominion War very well, but I feel like if you wanted government sponsored pirates, the Cardassians are a better choice than the Dominion. Save Dominon ships for the actual Dominion, and have them be the equivalent of "oh, crap, that's a dragon" in your story.

Speaking of story: this is your game, of course, and you Star Trek Universe, so do what you want. But I'd urge you to remember the underlying theme of Star Trek: there is always a better choice than violence. In Trek, if the protagonists have to resort to shooting, they've failed, and they're down to trying to mitigate that failure. The Dominion War is an interesting look at what might happen when the Federation's ideals collide with a polity that both refuses to negotiate, and is powerful enough to fight the Federation -- but the Dominion War is also not very good Star Trek, in my opinion. (It is amazing television, don't get me wrong, but it's playing with themes and ideas that don't really mesh with the core value of Trek. A lot of the creative team from DS9 ended up on nuBSG, and that was a much better setting for the kind of stories they wanted to tell, I think.)

Anyway, my point is that on a certain level it feels like you're trying to tell a story that belongs more in Star Wars or the Honorverse than in Star Trek. (Your ideas would work very well on an RMN destroyer patrolling Silesia.) I've been running RPGs for 30 years, and one of the things that really made my stories better was realising not all stories belong in all settings. Sure, you can try to shoehorn pretty much anything into any sci-fi setting - but some things just never sit right. I can think of ways one could do pirate hunting and Trek all at the same time, especially if the long arc involved making contact with the "pirate worlds" and convincing them that violence was not the answer.

And, again, this is your story and if your Star Trek Universe allows for it, don't let me tell you you're wrong. I just feel like a lot of fan fiction loses sight of the Trek ethos and indulges in violence more than a good Trek story should, and I like to push back on that from time to time.

 

[FredH]

Maybe just an Excelsior or two? I forget if these were being used in the war, but even if they were, (a) they were old, (b) there’d be a lot of them by now, so a couple fewer at the front won’t make much difference, and (c) they may be old, but against presumably homegrown pirates they’d probably still punch just fine; pirates aren’t likely to have top of the line warships, just whatever they could pull together.

 

[Redshirt214]

Some important background information on this campaign: it’s a continuation of an earlier campaign that I ran a while back in a different system (FarTrek, it’s in my post history), and the characters are all people who started out in the TNG era… and are now going to run smack into the Dominion War. An interesting theme we’ll be exploring is that the Captain of the ship has always been more had a more military bent than the average Starfleet officer (being raised by a Kzinti warrior cult will do that to a half Caitian) and so probably the war will allow them to go farther in their career than they might otherwise have done.

In spite of the war, and pirates, I’m sure that they’ll be plenty of opportunities for traditional Trek stories to tell as well. In fact I’m rather banking on it: I’m adapting the system for this game from a different rpg which was originally based around pirates, which has great mechanics for gameplay but had the Achilles heel of having a limited amount of stories one could tell within the genre. I’m sure I’ll be able to work in plenty of science mysteries, strange new worlds, dangerous aliens, &c in too.

Pirate hunting I think actually fits Trek far better than most other types of conflict, because dealing with the problem is a complex one. Pirates are fundamentally criminals, operating clandestinely, and finding and dealing with them is a mystery story… something that Trek handles quite well. There’s secret bases, criminal informants, turncoats &c that offer plenty of non-shoot’em up plots here.

Trek is basically Horatio Hornblower in Space, so I try not to overthink my plots… lord knows the original writers didn’t!