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New Short Trek: Ask Not

How Would You Rate "Ask Not"?

  • Total voters
    76
  • Poll closed .
fireproof78 said:
Episodic TV basically burned me out from when I first started noticing such things, about twenty years ago, or so. It's a little thing, but it adds up to a reminder of "Oh, this doesn't really matter" or "That character was important."

I'm not up to speed on the latest TV, largely because it doesn't appeal to me. And part of that is growing up with episodic things where it didn't matter.
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I mean, I'm not a big TV watcher either, but everything I've seen in the last decade other than The Orville has been serialized. Absolutely everything. Which is really tiresome, because sometimes you want to have a short story instead of a novel, and there's benefits of doing the "anthology with a fixed cast" thing that Star Trek, the X Files, and other shows in the past did so well.

I recently watched a podcast where they interviewed Ira Steven Behr of DS9 fame. At one point he talked about how there are fundamentally two different kinds of stories - plot-driven stories, and character-driven ones. He said he finds plot-driven stories functionally speaking kind of boring, because there isn't much depth beyond "this happens this week." and always tried to keep DS9's focus on the character growth and development. While a completely procedural show robs characters of the ability to grow, a completely serialized one makes them "slaves to the arc" in a certain sense, often reduced to implements to move the grand plot of the season along.
 
eschaton said:
I mean, I'm not a big TV watcher either, but everything I've seen in the last decade other than The Orville has been serialized. Absolutely everything. Which is really tiresome, because sometimes you want to have a short story instead of a novel, and there's benefits of doing the "anthology with a fixed cast" thing that Star Trek, the X Files, and other shows in the past did so well.

I recently watched a podcast where they interviewed Ira Steven Behr of DS9 fame. At one point he talked about how there are fundamentally two different kinds of stories - plot-driven stories, and character-driven ones. He said he finds plot-driven stories functionally speaking kind of boring, because there isn't much depth beyond "this happens this week." and always tried to keep DS9's focus on the character growth and development. While a completely procedural show robs characters of the ability to grow, a completely serialized one makes them "slaves to the arc" in a certain sense, often reduced to implements to move the grand plot of the season along.
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See, I completely disagree, at least if it is done well. I don't see characters or their growth as "slaves to the arc." I'll admit my biases here but procedurals drive me nuts with lack of character growth, for the most part. As will all things there are exceptions.

Also, I should clarify. I'm not saying TV hasn't been producing more serialized content because that is absolutely the case. I'm saying that I had such a fill of episodic TV and consequenceless stories that I flat out gave up. Like, I enjoyed Farscape, and SG-1 and things like that but there were times where it was like "What was the point?" I became almost a nihilist in my entertainment view-nothing matters.

I don't have a better way of explaining it other than being pretty jaded with most entertainment at this point. Star Trek being one of the view I can jump in to with no pretense.
 
fireproof78 said:
See, I completely disagree, at least if it is done well. I don't see characters or their growth as "slaves to the arc." I'll admit my biases here but procedurals drive me nuts with lack of character growth, for the most part. As will all things there are exceptions.

Also, I should clarify. I'm not saying TV hasn't been producing more serialized content because that is absolutely the case. I'm saying that I had such a fill of episodic TV and consequenceless stories that I flat out gave up. Like, I enjoyed Farscape, and SG-1 and things like that but there were times where it was like "What was the point?" I became almost a nihilist in my entertainment view-nothing matters.

I don't have a better way of explaining it other than being pretty jaded with most entertainment at this point. Star Trek being one of the view I can jump in to with no pretense.
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I'll admit I haven't watched true procedurals in forever. But the most episodic modern show I have seen is, as I said, The Orville. And while it's episodic by the standards of today, it's basically (particularly in the second season) structured a lot like Deep Space Nine, insofar as the characters do grow and change over the course of the season, and actions will have lasting consequences. The point being, there really is no "reset button" in place on the show.

I think as long as the individual characters continue to grow and deepen, it really doesn't matter if you tell one story or fifteen across a given season in terms of how engaged people are.

Real life, after all, has no plot. It does however have character development.
 
eschaton said:
The point being, there really is no "reset button" in place on the show.
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And that's the appeal to me of DSC and things like Daredevil or even Fuller House. There is no real reset button. But, the other side of that coin is do I care about the characters. And, in many shows, that isn't the case.
 
eschaton said:
I mean, I'm not a big TV watcher either, but everything I've seen in the last decade other than The Orville has been serialized. Absolutely everything. Which is really tiresome, because sometimes you want to have a short story instead of a novel, and there's benefits of doing the "anthology with a fixed cast" thing that Star Trek, the X Files, and other shows in the past did so well.

I recently watched a podcast where they interviewed Ira Steven Behr of DS9 fame. At one point he talked about how there are fundamentally two different kinds of stories - plot-driven stories, and character-driven ones. He said he finds plot-driven stories functionally speaking kind of boring, because there isn't much depth beyond "this happens this week." and always tried to keep DS9's focus on the character growth and development. While a completely procedural show robs characters of the ability to grow, a completely serialized one makes them "slaves to the arc" in a certain sense, often reduced to implements to move the grand plot of the season along.
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Yep.

If they're going to serialized it they have to make it worth my time, hour after hour. This ST:D shit doesn't make the cut.
 
They are never going to go back to episodic shows in the age of streaming. With streaming, you have to tune in each week to find out what happens. It ties you to watching it. You can’t come in part way through the season and not understand what’s going. You have to start from the beginning. Episodic is fine when it’s airing on commercial tv, cause viewers will find it by flipping through channels. With streaming, you actually have to look for the show you want to watch.

With the dominance of streaming, I don’t see episodic Trek, or most other streaming exclusive shows, returning anytime soon.
 
fireproof78 said:
I can respect your opinion but couldn't disagree more. I am so tired of episodic television where things feel like they don't matter from week to week. That's why I enjoy things like DSC or DS9 in terms of revisiting them is because I want to see how the story unfolds. I love TOS for the episodic story lines but characters keep me coming back, because the focus was often on two or three characters that I was invested in. Contrast with TNG where I was less invested in the characters.
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I recently decided to try and do a TNG re-watch and couldn't do it purely because I was getting so pissed off at how nothing the characters did really mattered, because by next week it would be forgotten. Rick Berman is to blame for TNG's lack of serialisation because he wanted the show to be accessible when it went into syndication. The worst offense is probably Picard's recovery from being assimilated. Picard's guilt and trauma really should have been explored over multiple episodes, but considering the writers had to fight for 'Family' to be produced it was never going to happen. As a result, TNG and VOY have become shows that I put on when I want some background noise while I'm cooking, cleaning or doing something on my laptop. I just can't get interested or invested in them anymore.
 
TPezz said:
They are never going to go back to episodic shows in the age of streaming. With streaming, you have to tune in each week to find out what happens. It ties you to watching it. You can’t come in part way through the season and not understand what’s going. You have to start from the beginning. Episodic is fine when it’s airing on commercial tv, cause viewers will find it by flipping through channels. With streaming, you actually have to look for the show you want to watch.
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I'm not sure I get this. Particularly the bolded. With streaming, you don't need to tune in each week to find out what happens at all. Everything's always sitting there, meaning you can discover a show years after it began, and take your time getting up to speed.

Now, there is an argument that Netflix-style streaming - where you dump a whole season at once - lends itself to serialization. But I think a stronger case can be made if you're going to do this you should just dispense with "seasons" all together. Just write an arc to be as long as it needs to be for story purposes (three, seven, twelve - however many episodes) and wrap it up, put it online, and work on the next story.

If you continue to do what CBS All Access does - and release shows as if they're still on broadcast, one episode per week - then they really aren't packaged for binge watching, meaning episodic can still work just as well.
 
The main issue with serialization is that there has to be a single unifying vision for the whole season, a map with the all the major plot pints laid out. When this fails apart, as I believe is what happen to both seasons of Discovery, the show fall short of its potential. As there has been no news of major changes in the leadership, it would seem to indicate that the next season will see Discovery reaching its full potential. Here's to hoping. :beer:
 
BillJ said:
I don't think this is really true, at least for me. I think most folks are smart enough to pick up on things.
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Yep.

Beginnings are somewhat arbitrary; where a story starts depends on what story you're telling.

And it's dumb to try to write a fifteen hour multi-part story when you're struggling to write an adequate hour-long script, as the STD folks do.
 
Ketwolski said:
Thank you for the kind words, and for checking out the channel! Next comment you make let me know it's you so we can chat there too!
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Awesome! Unfortunately, I'll have nothing to say about Ask Not. I've put CBSA on hiatus until some episodes of Picard build up. Perhaps I'll see you in some of the other forums here.
 
Bad Thoughts said:
Awesome! Unfortunately, I'll have nothing to say about Ask Not. I've put CBSA on hiatus until some episodes of Picard build up. Perhaps I'll see you in some of the other forums here.
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Indeed! Well you can always catch my review of it next weekend! In the meantime, its speculation abound!! :)
 
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