Moving shuttlecraft & runabi
- Thread starter Shik
- Start date
We should take into account ST2 and the fact that Khan's surface hut consisted of a train of containers complete with the towing rig. Why would that have been included if the containers were beamed down? It is sort of implied that the containers descended - although whether the towing rig or its (missing) workbee had anything to do with it is anybody's guess. Personally, I imagine they bolted a special antigrav onto the rig, the way we'd use a parachute today. Or, considering STXI and its retro-tech, perhaps they indeed used a parachute pack.
The ability of the workbee to float through the cargo bay might be attributed to the fact that it is in freefall around Earth. The AG from the bay floor might simply not reach that far up. I mean, it has to die down much faster than 1/r^2 if it is to be compatible with the idea that individual decks may lose gravity, as in TAS and later spinoffs (or have it deteriorate down to .8, as in TOS).
The middle of the bay being a microgravity environment would help a lot with cargo handling...
Timo Saloniemi
The ability of the workbee to float through the cargo bay might be attributed to the fact that it is in freefall around Earth. The AG from the bay floor might simply not reach that far up. I mean, it has to die down much faster than 1/r^2 if it is to be compatible with the idea that individual decks may lose gravity, as in TAS and later spinoffs (or have it deteriorate down to .8, as in TOS).
The middle of the bay being a microgravity environment would help a lot with cargo handling...
Timo Saloniemi
Was it mentioned that the Workbees don't have the gravity-manipulating technology --- that's centuries old, phenomenally reliable, and can be made to fit in hand-held units --- to use in their task of moving massive objects around?
Well we know from Nemesis that a Scorpion can be 'flown' and hovered inside the corridors of a starship and the reactions of Picard and Data didn't indicate surprise that this was possible.
So I'm guessing antigrav repulsor plating on the undersides of shuttles as standard.
Isnt there also a tractor beam emitter in the ED main shuttlebay? Wouldnt be surpised if 'parking' is automated, that the shuttlebay manager can just ask the computer to place all the shuttles in a parking pattern for tidy storage, and the tractor beam gets on with it.
So I'm guessing antigrav repulsor plating on the undersides of shuttles as standard.
Isnt there also a tractor beam emitter in the ED main shuttlebay? Wouldnt be surpised if 'parking' is automated, that the shuttlebay manager can just ask the computer to place all the shuttles in a parking pattern for tidy storage, and the tractor beam gets on with it.
You know very well that I was not saying they couldn't possibly have AG capacity. Quit being pedantic.
there's a picture of the one inside the shuttle bay in the memory alpha article on tractor beams
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Tractor_beam
so using them to move and park shuttles that have already landed makes sense
Also note how a tractor beam appears to be non-Newtonian in the sense that putting a force on the target doesn't create an equal and opposite force in the emitter. Tiny, flimsy things can move massive ones; small craft can pull large starships; and stopping a speeding vessel dead in its tracks doesn't appear to involve major shear forces, or give any sort of a push or a nudge to the stopping vessel.
I guess one could shuffle shuttlecraft with a handheld tractor pistol, provided the pistol was powerful enough. The same way Wes Crusher lifted a big chair with a handheld tractor beam unit in "The Naked Now", I mean.
Timo Saloniemi
I guess one could shuffle shuttlecraft with a handheld tractor pistol, provided the pistol was powerful enough. The same way Wes Crusher lifted a big chair with a handheld tractor beam unit in "The Naked Now", I mean.
Timo Saloniemi
I recently had a discussion with some friends regarding an obvious discrepancy in TOS signs. There is the one that says "Hangar Deck" and another one that says "Hanger Deck".
I had wondered about the upper fins of the Galileo shuttlecraft, theoretically you could slide a holding panel in between, probably connected to a (mostly) unseen rail system.
So maybe "Hanger Deck" wasn't entirely accidental and/or erroneous?
Bob
I had wondered about the upper fins of the Galileo shuttlecraft, theoretically you could slide a holding panel in between, probably connected to a (mostly) unseen rail system.
So maybe "Hanger Deck" wasn't entirely accidental and/or erroneous?
Bob
Well, etymologically, "hangar" really has nothing to do with hanging, but I guess some people could feel that "hanger" is a valid alternate spelling and might even believe in an etymological connection. I have a difficult time believing there would have been hanging-related intent behind the choice, though.
But I don't have a difficult time believing that the shuttles in Trek reality do hang from the ceiling. Or from the floor for that matter, if it's more advantageous to have the gravity point towards the ceiling. Mechanical clamps just sound like such a clumsy way to do it when you have gravitic systems that survive hell and high water and shrug off doomsday machines and centuries of neglect.
Timo Saloniemi
But I don't have a difficult time believing that the shuttles in Trek reality do hang from the ceiling. Or from the floor for that matter, if it's more advantageous to have the gravity point towards the ceiling. Mechanical clamps just sound like such a clumsy way to do it when you have gravitic systems that survive hell and high water and shrug off doomsday machines and centuries of neglect.
Timo Saloniemi
if gravity point towards the ceiling, it's not the ceiling.
A few, random suggestions:
-Wifi+AI. I see no reason why the entire loading/ offloading/ prep of shuttlecraft can't be handled by the ships AI, remote-controlling each vessel. Onboard AG and RCS systems could be controlled with a precision beyond that of organics. If a crew-member wished to have direct control, a simple interface via PADD could allow for selection of both the craft required and its exact loadout for the particular mission.
-Magnetic clamps that adhere to the nacelles combined with moveable 'plates': effectively turn the hangar-to-deck lifts found on Aircraft Carriers into micro docking platforms which could thus be moved around the storage/ maintenace areas as needed. More of a visual effect bonus than a practical utility I'll admit.
-Racks of locked-down shuttles akin to ultra-modern compact-car-lifts as found in Japan and a certain memorable moment from I,Robot. Could allow for parking of dormant shuttles within milimeters of one another, saving valuable onboard real estate.
Or, to really push the boat out, a massive transporter buffer system akin to the toolbelt devices used in the Elite Force VG's: Call up a particular shuttle + load-out at will and it's beamed to the hangar deck within seconds. One huge bonus to this fantasy tech: hard/firm/soft-ware updates could be integrated with the stored schematics on the fly. Rather than sending a ship out with one variation of Mark IX's for five years, enjoy the benefits of a Mark IX.I, IX.I.II and so on...
Fluffier dice, better seats...
-Wifi+AI. I see no reason why the entire loading/ offloading/ prep of shuttlecraft can't be handled by the ships AI, remote-controlling each vessel. Onboard AG and RCS systems could be controlled with a precision beyond that of organics. If a crew-member wished to have direct control, a simple interface via PADD could allow for selection of both the craft required and its exact loadout for the particular mission.
-Magnetic clamps that adhere to the nacelles combined with moveable 'plates': effectively turn the hangar-to-deck lifts found on Aircraft Carriers into micro docking platforms which could thus be moved around the storage/ maintenace areas as needed. More of a visual effect bonus than a practical utility I'll admit.
-Racks of locked-down shuttles akin to ultra-modern compact-car-lifts as found in Japan and a certain memorable moment from I,Robot. Could allow for parking of dormant shuttles within milimeters of one another, saving valuable onboard real estate.
Or, to really push the boat out, a massive transporter buffer system akin to the toolbelt devices used in the Elite Force VG's: Call up a particular shuttle + load-out at will and it's beamed to the hangar deck within seconds. One huge bonus to this fantasy tech: hard/firm/soft-ware updates could be integrated with the stored schematics on the fly. Rather than sending a ship out with one variation of Mark IX's for five years, enjoy the benefits of a Mark IX.I, IX.I.II and so on...
Fluffier dice, better seats...I would think shuttles (and anything relatively large) would be held in place either by a physical clamp, or a magnetic plate (that is only deactivated when under power- like safety brakes on trucks- the spring to release the brakes are only done while under compression from the air tanks- remove that compression during an air loss and the spring compression releases and applies the brakes). Otherwise, a magnetic clamp would fail in the event of a power loss.
It might be a bit difficult to devise a reverse-action magnet like that, but certainly not impossible.
Then again, artificial gravity in Trek seems (almost) indestructible and capable of operating centuries after power is turned off. As long as the control systems are made idiotproof, it might be possible to trust the securing of a shuttle on simply ramping up local gravity.
I wonder if the tabletops of the ship aren't provided with a bit of extra gravitic pull, too - explaining why glassware all over the ship never breaks when the bridge shakes enough to topple our heroes...
Timo Saloniemi
Then again, artificial gravity in Trek seems (almost) indestructible and capable of operating centuries after power is turned off. As long as the control systems are made idiotproof, it might be possible to trust the securing of a shuttle on simply ramping up local gravity.
I wonder if the tabletops of the ship aren't provided with a bit of extra gravitic pull, too - explaining why glassware all over the ship never breaks when the bridge shakes enough to topple our heroes...
Timo Saloniemi
Except for Sulu's teacup of course. ^^
IIRC, it's a German word meaning "shed."
When I worked at the local international airport years ago, the employee map of the airport labeled the big maintainance hangers with that spelling, not "hangars."
I guess they weren't considered German sheds.
I think that mechanical or magnetic clamps would be a good idea. Otherwise if the ship gets damaged and all power goes out including gravity. Then we get the silly scene of the shuttlecraft tumbling end over end like in STiD. It looked cool but was utter BS.
No, in German "hangar" indicates a building where you store or assemble planes.
"Shed" in German would refer to Baracke, Hütte or Schuppen, essentially a storage space of the lowest category to store all kinds of items you don't want to get soaking wet when it starts to rain.
Bob
Wiktionary suggests a French origin to "hangar". Not a surprise in light of "garage", I guess. But both can be traced back to a time when French was essentially a Germanic language.
Timo Saloniemi
French is a Latinate language. It is not derived from German roots in the least bit.
English is a Germanic language, but, due to the influence of Norman invaders from France, and hundreds of years of Catholicism, adopted a wide array of Latinate words. But the grammatical structure is largely a hodge-podge of German and ancient Welsh. There was a also a big vocab-dump from Scandinavian sources, thanks to contact with Vikings in the early medieval period.
--Alex
Ah, but it is - in terms of vocabulary, shoehorned into "Low Latin" grammar. The Francs got at least as much Germanic influences during the big migrations as the various lords of the British Isles did, they just absorbed slightly different parts of it. And then eroded away different parts, too, until only the current langue d'oil was left.
The dominance of France in technology back when things like hangars and garages needed to be named was also something of a shared effort with Germany, but the French got the better half of it, in terms of global distribution of terminology...
Timo Saloniemi
