MLB Discussion - 2012 Season
- Thread starter tomalak301
- Start date
True, and I hope they don't blow this new found flexibility on Hamilton or Grienke.
The guy inherited a roster that while talented, wasn't working, due to injuries, regression, what have you, and had NO flexibility, if they are trying to stay under the luxury tax. He got out from all of it in the Dodgers trade, and even got two good pitching prospects back.
You keep acting like Cherington has acted like a moron for his first year as GM. Yes Melancon did not work out, but the thought behind the trade wasn't bad. Lowrie was a constantly hurt but talented hitter, and Weiland wasn't anything special. Similar with the Bailey deal. I liked Reddick, and thought he was a good player, but no one saw the kind of year he had Oakland coming. And Bailey got hurt, which was a concern when we traded for him, but shit happens. I won't say that Cherington has been great but he hasn't been the moron you keep saying his is. If he was doing what Reuben Amaro was doing by just adding more and more payroll to fix the problem, I'd agree, but he didn't.
We haven't gotten to see what kind of team he would build because he was so stuck with the contracts Theo left when he high tailed to Chicago. He was forced to work within the confines he was allowed. Now however, its all on him. He has everything lined up how he wanted it, with an open checkbook. If he screws up now, he has no one else to blame, but lets see if he does.
The 2013 Red Sox will not be build in FA, cause as stated, it sucks. I could see them chasing one of the other starters on the market, such as a Haren on a short term, high money deal. I feel they're going to rebuild using trades, and wait for it...waiting for some of their younger players do develop. For the first time in a few years, there is a group of guys developing who could be next wave or prospects to make a major impact, like Papelbon, Lester, Buchholz, Pedroia and Ellsbury did between 2004-07.
This team is in a much better position now, then it was the day before the Dodgers trade.
I will be stunned if they don't make a serious run at Hamilton. (Assuming, of course, that I'm wrong about Henry & Co. getting ready to cash out, and I'm not sure that I am.)
He traded a guy who, despite not being very good, could have brought back actual baseball players, instead of a guy who doesn't actually play the game. Beyond that, he traded for a manager who seemed to make a number of weird but subtle choices with the Toronto media that caused at least some unnecessary seething inside the organization, and also seemed to have an equally awkward relationship with both young players and veterans, and his strategic choices were somewhere between below average and average.
I mean, I can only think of a few things that would be more humiliating to be traded for than a manager:
1. A box of baseballs
2. A beer vendor with a signature call
3. A treasure map with a rhyming scheme
4. Barbecue sunflower seeds
5. A Zamboni
6. Yuniesky Betancourt
And even that Zamboni might have more value if the owner happens to hold a hockey team as well as a baseball team.
The Youkilis trade was beyond stupid, and I already mentioned how silly it is to be putting all their eggs in the Jose Iglesias basket; he's going to need to luck out into becoming a BABIP god to be of any value at the plate.
The only genuinely bad contract that Cherington dealt with was Crawford's, and that deal was Henry's all the way. Adrian Gonzalez is still a world-class talent, and the only reason his contract was dumped was because that was the price the Dodgers demanded in exchange for taking on the mammoth contract of a guy who may already be done (and even that is hilarious, because the Dodgers' owners came out after the trade and said that they don't care about how much money they spend).
If they were genuinely intending to rebuild, they'd be trading guys like Lester and Pedroia, instead of trading for a manager who will appease them.
And in a surprising move, the Marlins fire Ozzie Guillen.
Actually, the surprising part is they waited this long.
Actually, the surprising part is they waited this long.
I still can't wrap my mind around the fact that Barry Zito is a game 1 starter in a World Series...in the year 2012.
I am happy he's gone really. Even up until the Escobar incident, I was of the thinking of maybe he could still take the steps forward needed for this team. But then one of his players walks out with a gay slur written in his eye black. Sure, Farrell doesn't speak Spanish, but he doesn't ask what it says and the Spanish players don't raise an uproar? And then when it is discovered, Farrell treats it like Escobar double parked out front of the Rogers Centre. Now I'm not a crusader of gay rights, but in a city that had such a large gay community and an annual gay pride parade and that was his reaction, especially when the city's reaction was so intense? That started to raise some questions for me.
The only way this team (Toronto) will grow is if there is a teaching manager brought in, but one that will not put up with the silliness and lack of discipline that we saw in the Farrell era.
Farrell is not the anointed savior Boston is making him out to be. From what we saw, he was a sub-par manager. The city was shocked was Francona lost control of the clubhouse before he was fired? And the reaction when Valentine tried to instill some discipline? Farrell is part of the old Boston boys club. Of course the players left over are happy to see him, it means they have the run of the clubhouse again. I would hope most free agents realize that this team is poison and stay away from it.
Im sure you'd love to think that FA will stay away, would help Toronto a lot wouldn't it? Doesn't work like that. It's about the money, and they have a lot of it.
We'll see with Farrell. Just because he didn't work out in Toronto, doesn't mean he'll be bad in Boston, and if he can fix Lester and Bard while he's here, then it's worth it.
Look at it this way, the way things have been going this post season, it's either a blow out or he pitches a no-hitter
Valentine is a disciplinarian? 
Okay.
He never tried to instill discipline. Calling players out publicly and trying to turn everyone against one another is not discipline. The players didn't rally behind Valentine because he's not a leader. He's a narcissistic blowhard who thinks he knows better than everyone else. He's not interested in anything that doesn't make him look good. I had low expectations for him when he was hired, but he turned out to be even worse than I thought.
I think it's telling that John Henry and Larry Lucchino were out there, front and center, during Valentine's press conference when he was announced as manager, but during Farrell's press conference neither of them were anywhere to be seen until Lucchino came out to answer a few questions after the press conference had ended. Hopefully they've realized that the guy they wanted (Valentine) didn't work so well and will back off a bit this year and let Cherington do his job properly.
Okay.He never tried to instill discipline. Calling players out publicly and trying to turn everyone against one another is not discipline. The players didn't rally behind Valentine because he's not a leader. He's a narcissistic blowhard who thinks he knows better than everyone else. He's not interested in anything that doesn't make him look good. I had low expectations for him when he was hired, but he turned out to be even worse than I thought.
I think it's telling that John Henry and Larry Lucchino were out there, front and center, during Valentine's press conference when he was announced as manager, but during Farrell's press conference neither of them were anywhere to be seen until Lucchino came out to answer a few questions after the press conference had ended. Hopefully they've realized that the guy they wanted (Valentine) didn't work so well and will back off a bit this year and let Cherington do his job properly.
The Red Sox didn't need to do their traditional "mother of all smear jobs on a person leaving the organization" this time -- Bobby V did it to himself.
I think Tim McCarver hit a new low tonight. After the crowd had been chanting "Barry...Barry..." (as in, Zito, and everyone knew this), guess who ol' Tim suggested it was? Manilow. 
Even Joe Buck was floored...
Even Joe Buck was floored...
As has been any World Series that didn't feature the Giants for me...yet you don't see me complaining about it.
I think Tim McCarver hit a new low tonight. After the crowd had been chanting "Barry...Barry..." (as in, Zito, and everyone knew this), guess who ol' Tim suggested it was? Manilow.
Even Joe Buck was floored...
Yeah, the guy needs to throw in the towel..and as far as Buck goes, he sucks too. Even after Verlander got spanked and was gone they were still kissing his ass.
That was so odd...
Loved the Panda-monium
The lack of torture was quite strange...but I could get used to it.
Final score was 8-3 if that helps at all. 
Besides, we Giants fans have gone through enough torture these past few years with these tight games and the seemingly never ending elimination games that a blowout was much appreciated.
Besides, we Giants fans have gone through enough torture these past few years with these tight games and the seemingly never ending elimination games that a blowout was much appreciated.
Verlander really needed to be taken down a peg. I was getting a bit cheesed off at constantly being reminded about how perfect he was and how the Tigers can't lose when he's on the mound and how Game 1 was supposed to be a Tiger blowout and all that bullshit.
Verlander really needed to be taken down a peg. I was getting a bit cheesed off at constantly being reminded about how perfect he was and how the Tigers can't lose when he's on the mound and how Game 1 was supposed to be a Tiger blowout and all that bullshit.
He really doesn't though. He is arguably the best pitcher in the game, and the most exciting to watch. Watching him dominate the Yankees was quite a treat.
Give credit to the Giants hitters. He doesn't make a lot of mistakes, and he was just a bit off last night. When he made a mistake, they made him pay for it.
I agree with Tom. Everyone has an off night, I don't see why it's such a big deal. Verlander is undoubtedly a great pitcher and from what I have seen, seems like a decent guy as MLB players go. I don't see why he needs to be taken down a peg simply because announcers and analysts keep talking about him. It's not like it's his fault.
I also think people easily fall into double-standards when it comes to stuff like this. Laser Beam, if Verlander was a Yankees pitcher, and the world series was New York vs. SF, and everything else about his performance + how much the commentators yak about him was the same... I don't think you'd be complaining. This is true of a lot of people.
And a big blowout like this isn't what I wanted either (I'm more of an A's fan than a Giants fan, so with this series, I'm wanting to see good games more than I'm wanting to see the Giants win; I completely understand the sentiment of an SF fan, though, and if it were the A's, I'd be hollering and cheering for any and every kind of victory
), but I still enjoy watching the games. I do think things will tighten up going forward; the Tigers have received a rather startling wake-up call, and they'll need to quickly shake off any lingering sluggishness from their time off. Fister has been quite good in the postseason as well, and Bumgarner not so much, so that bodes well for them. Then again, Barry Zito outpitched Justin Verlander to the tune of 5-1, so who the hell knows what'll happen next.
I also think people easily fall into double-standards when it comes to stuff like this. Laser Beam, if Verlander was a Yankees pitcher, and the world series was New York vs. SF, and everything else about his performance + how much the commentators yak about him was the same... I don't think you'd be complaining. This is true of a lot of people.
And a big blowout like this isn't what I wanted either (I'm more of an A's fan than a Giants fan, so with this series, I'm wanting to see good games more than I'm wanting to see the Giants win; I completely understand the sentiment of an SF fan, though, and if it were the A's, I'd be hollering and cheering for any and every kind of victory
), but I still enjoy watching the games. I do think things will tighten up going forward; the Tigers have received a rather startling wake-up call, and they'll need to quickly shake off any lingering sluggishness from their time off. Fister has been quite good in the postseason as well, and Bumgarner not so much, so that bodes well for them. Then again, Barry Zito outpitched Justin Verlander to the tune of 5-1, so who the hell knows what'll happen next. Similar threads
