"Mirror, Mirror" physical transference?

[Metryq]

Prompted by the recent "Court Martial: why are Spock and McCoy wasting time?" thread—

Perhaps this has been discussed before: Is the transference between universes in "Mirror, Mirror" a full, physical transference, or only a "spirit" transference, as in "Turnabout Intruder"? This concept is not new to sci-fi. Jack Finney's novel Time And Again involved a "mental time travel" project. James P. Hogan's Paths to Otherwhere is a similar example, but involving "Mirror, Mirror"-like alternate universes.

If physical, why would Kirk and the landing party find themselves in Mirror-Universe attire? I can't see the transporter switching their clothes as "plot armor" to avoid letting the cat out of the bag right from the opening scene. So that suggests only their consciousnesses were switched.

I know that time travel and alternate histories have become a popular and lazy trope for writers (especially of superhero movies). But we're not talking about post-TOS vacations to the Mirror-verse or other spin-offs. Just the TOS "Mirror, Mirror" episode.

Thoughts?

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

What about hairstyles? Assuming it's their real hair and they're not wearing wigs in-universe, did they automatically have the hairstyle of their counterpart (if it's different) or have to alter theirs?

 

[Reymet_2]

What about hairstyles?

Mirror Spock's beard and mirror Sulu's scar would be enough, in fact.

 

[Ssosmcin]

The implication seems to be more of a psychic transfer since mirror Kirk commented on their appearance and Uhura beamed back with a tricorder she didn't have while leaving the ISS Enterprise (although why Spock could hand it to Mirror Uhura on the way out remains a mystery).

We saw the Mirror crew and their hairstyles were not particularly different.

Honestly, it was plot armor, but in universe, either psychic transfer or the transporter "fixed" them on the way through both sides and made sure they had the right stuff on them.

 

[Metryq]

Uhura beamed back with a tricorder she didn't have while leaving the ISS Enterprise (although why Spock could hand it to Mirror Uhura on the way out remains a mystery).

Prime Uhura had the tricorder on the planet, but was missing it when they arrived in the Mirror transporter. No problem there if Mirror Uhura did not have it on the planet. She had a tricorder in the Mirror transporter before beam-out, but I did not see Spock hand it to her. If you mean Prime Spock, then we never saw that side of the exchange. (Nor the Mirror side return.) But body-of-Prime-Uhura would have needed it. You're right on that observation. From brig to transporter, why would Spock have equipped them with anything?

If you wanted to be very nit-picky, I can see the first exchange being entirely coincidental. But the return? Exactly at the same time?

 

[BK613]

If you wanted to be very nit-picky, I can see the first exchange being entirely coincidental. But the return? Exactly at the same time?

Some form of cross-universe, non-quantum entanglement tied to the limited window to get home? In truth, the characters act like it's a physical exchange with the talk of 'power balanced for four' implying Marlena* could have gone instead.


*(some might been happy with the final transfer resulting in Captain Marlena Moreau )

 

[Procutus]

Jack Finney's novel Time And Again involved a "mental time travel" project.

Time and Again was a great novel. It's been years since I read it and its sequel From Time to Time, but I remember them both fondly and thought that they were well written. Sadly, Finney passed away before writing the third novel in the series.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Prime Uhura had the tricorder on the planet, but was missing it when they arrived in the Mirror transporter. No problem there if Mirror Uhura did not have it on the planet. She had a tricorder in the Mirror transporter before beam-out, but I did not see Spock hand it to her. If you mean Prime Spock, then we never saw that side of the exchange. (Nor the Mirror side return.) But body-of-Prime-Uhura would have needed it. You're right on that observation. From brig to transporter, why would Spock have equipped them with anything?

I don't see Uhura Prime having a tricorder on her way in
https://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/al...n2/210-mirror-mirror/mirror-mirror-br-042.jpg

...or out of the Mirror Universe:
https://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/al...n2/210-mirror-mirror/mirror-mirror-br-908.jpg
https://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/al...n2/210-mirror-mirror/mirror-mirror-br-915.jpg

If you wanted to be very nit-picky, I can see the first exchange being entirely coincidental. But the return? Exactly at the same time?

Maybe the Mirror crew simply disappeared from the brig. If Spock Prime was monitoring the window between the two universes that was "closing very fast," and he took the Mirror crew to the Transporter room, then he must have beamed them out (with tricorder) when Kirk Prime's incoming beam was detected, just hoping they'd go where they were supposed to:

SPOCK: I assume they returned to their Enterprise at the same time you appeared here.
KIRK: Probably. However, that Jim Kirk will find a few changes, if I read my Spocks correctly.

In that case, Spock had it figured out at his end just like Kirk did in the MU, and they're efforts sync'd up when the Prime crew started beaming home and were detected. So, not a coincidence.

The fact that Uhura's tricorder never left the Prime Universe suggests the whole thing was not a physical transference, but just a mind thing like "Turnabout Intruder." Thus, from Spock Prime's point of view, the transporter accident caused a psychosis, and the re-beaming (the "second blow to the head") cured it.

 

[Zapp Brannigan]

I always figured Spock figured out that something transporter-related happened, and had the alts ready to go, on the transporter pad.

Plus, this isn't TOS, but the psychic-transfer idea falls apart with what we see in DS9. Jennifer Sisko and Barell both visited from the mirror universe, and both were dead in our universe at the time. Also, Kira met her alt, and there was no mind-swutching involved.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

Who knows what innovations have been made in the last 100 years? Perhaps it's easier to visit without having to swap places.

 

[Metryq]

@ZapBrannigan: My mistake. On beam-out from the MU Uhura had a phaser in her hand, and I mistook the bangles and claws on the other hand as a tricorder. (Dark scene.) But my point still stands—why would Mirror Uhura have been equipped with a tricorder (after coming from the brig)? Outside of that, the psychic transference idea works well. At least it is easier to swallow than convoluted explanations as to why their uniforms changed, which would have required the Mirror Spock to use Mr. Kyle's agonizer on the landing party.

Plus, this isn't TOS, but the psychic-transfer idea falls apart with what we see in DS9.

That's why I restricted it to TOS. The Trek spin-offs had warp core breaches every week, they time traveled more often than Doctor Who, and the Mirror Universe became a favorite vacation spot. The first time around, it is an interesting story gimmick. Constantly revisiting it becomes tiresome, and requires explanations as to how the same "evil twin" people can be in the same roles on the same ship (or even exist) in a history so radically different from the prime universe.

 

[Ssosmcin]

If you mean Prime Spock, then we never saw that side of the exchange. (Nor the Mirror side return.) But body-of-Prime-Uhura would have needed it. You're right on that observation. From brig to transporter, why would Spock have equipped them with anything?

Yup, that's what I meant, sorry I didn't specify prime vs alt Spock.

This episode is brilliant Star Trek, but the logistics of getting the landing party swapped at the same with without Spock having any way to contact Kirk in the alternate universe is mind melting. It can work is Spock had the transporter set to not beam the others back until it detected the incoming beam. This would work with a physical or psychic transfer, the latter of which would require both parties to leave and arrive in the chamber and not beam, say, into sick bay or the brig.

And Spock knows Kirk well enough to guess he would pontificate until the last second.

Again, though, having Prime Spock give Uhura a tricorder makes no sense. It's hard to see, but McCoy also has his medikit.

Yet Kirk materializing in his Heroic Stance works because Alt Kirk would make a last try at breaking free to do devilment.

You want nitpicky? In the beginning, Kirk calls for beam up from Halka, closes his communicator and puts his arm down.

We cut to the transporter room and we see them beam partway in and Kirk's arm is up, as if caught in the beam while still speaking into it. It probably doesn't matter, but Uhura is in the wrong spot also.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

Not really.

Kirk: "Oh, and one more thi-"

or

I wonder if I closed the flap on it properly.

Uhura is on the transporter pad closest to her actual position in formation before beamout.

 

[Warped9]

That's why I restricted it to TOS. The Trek spin-offs had warp core breaches every week, they time traveled more often than Doctor Who, and the Mirror Universe became a favorite vacation spot. The first time around, it is an interesting story gimmick. Constantly revisiting it becomes tiresome, and requires explanations as to how the same "evil twin" people can be in the same roles on the same ship (or even exist) in a history so radically different from the prime universe.

This.

 

[fireproof78]

Constantly revisiting it becomes tiresome, and requires explanations as to how the same "evil twin" people can be in the same roles on the same ship (or even exist) in a history so radically different from the prime universe.

I mean, isn't the fun to explore the possibilities, not tiresome but engaging with the material? I thought that's what we did here, exploring how Star Trek might work. The MU is one of the best ones that TOS put forward.

 

[Metryq]

I mean, isn't the fun to explore the possibilities

There's a difference between concept sci-fi and "fan service." With concept sci-fi, some new thing is introduced into a society, and then the developments examined. Larry Niven posited commonplace teleportation and came up with "flash mobs." ("Hey, something interesting is happening at government square, let's go!") Or the "soul" is scientifically proven and Hereafter insurance is sold. Robert Sheckley gave us a world with legal manhunts, zombies and ghosts (Immortality, Inc.). Heinlein realized "Clarke's Law" (any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic) and its corollary (any sufficiently repeatable magic is indistinguishable from technology) in Waldo.

Fan service is "This time Kira gets to be the evil warlord and dress in a kinky outfit!!" That's of juvenile interest, only.

"Mirror, Mirror" is a somewhat tongue-in-cheek examination of the alternate history idea, but which does not stand up to close scrutiny. James P. Hogan's The Proteus Operation is a brilliant treatment of the alternate history concept. It starts in 1975 where "World War II" is still going on, and what remains of the Allies know it is only a matter of time. A select team of specialists and special ops are sent back to 1939 through a new time projector in an attempt to change things. But Hogan does not invoke an illogical paradox. Instead, we learn of yet a third history wrapped up in this whole tangle. The details of historical characters is tight, motivations are credible, and there are technical marvels at every turn.

The evil twin is a pale comparison that is all one can fit into 50 minutes. Star Trek's "The Enemy Within" did that idea much better.

 

[Shawnster]

At some point the divergence between the two universes should become so great as to no longer have any similarities or twins.

Mirror Kirk killed Pike and assumed command of the ISS Enterprise. No Pike, no Menagerie events. Had Mirror Kirk been in command, the Halkan homeworld would be a smoldering ruin and the Enterprise on to it's next assignment.

In both instances above we see divergence from the Prime Universe. As characters die in one universe but not the other, their impact on the universe changes.

The idea of everyone having a mirror counterpart is nice for one story, but falls apart under repeated scrutiny

 

[Ssosmcin]

At some point the divergence between the two universes should become so great as to no longer have any similarities or twins.

Mirror Kirk killed Pike and assumed command of the ISS Enterprise. No Pike, no Menagerie events. Had Mirror Kirk been in command, the Halkan homeworld would be a smoldering ruin and the Enterprise on to it's next assignment.

In both instances above we see divergence from the Prime Universe. As characters die in one universe but not the other, their impact on the universe changes.

The idea of everyone having a mirror counterpart is nice for one story, but falls apart under repeated scrutiny

Yes agreed and this episode works as that one moment in time when both universes have everyone at the right place at the right time. After that, Prime Kirk goes off to the next episode and alt Kirk has to deal with his Spock's change of outlook and they go off in different directions. This assassination happy crew would look totally different by the time Prime Kirk got to the Melkotians.

 

[fireproof78]

but which does not stand up to close scrutiny.

As opposed to Kirk's good and evil side?
I don't understand the objection.

 

[Metryq]

At some point the divergence between the two universes should become so great as to no longer have any similarities or twins.

Agreed, but the two universes are already so radically different that one can hardly call the "Mirror, Mirror" episode a divergence point. How did the MU even get to such a similar-yet-different point from which to "diverge"?