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Luke Skywalker's Character Problem in Star Wars The Last Jedi

Again, that's the stance of a hypocrite precisely because the psychology of the character was absolute nonsense. He went from someone that proved the most dangerous person in the galaxy can be redeemed to someone that gave up on someone clearly less dangerous and evil. The mambo-jambo you say regarding "IT WAS ABOUT HIS OWN SCHOOL GUYS, IT WAS PERSONAL, THAT'S WHY IT WAS IMPORTANT" is embarrassing for you when you imply you are some kind of master psychologist since in the other case it was about his own father that he missed as a child, and it can't get more personal than that.

And you know what, even if you could stretch it that he "changed" it's still destructive to the story. The entire point of the good side is that it can forgive their friends even when they falter. What is the point to even have a "Resistance" if it's all about revenge and destruction of the opposition? Why do we even fight for? To sell toys and bait nostalgia with surface-over-substance lightsaber fights? It seems like it.

Ok, so I tell myself I'm not going to engage in these arguments, because I'm not going to change anybody's mind. But, as someone who enjoyed what they did with Luke in the TLJ, you see this stuff a lot. So, my two cents:

I agree that what happened at Luke's academy had a far greater impact on Luke than Vader ever did. People say that's hypocrisy, but it really isn't. @fireproof78 laid out a lot of good thinking on this subject, and I'll defer to his explanation in large part, because it echoes my own.

However, one point that isn't raised about Luke's journey in the discussion I'm seeing here is integral to The Last Jedi, and Luke's place in the larger thematic exploration. And I apologize, a lot of this is rough thought that I'm just putting into words for the first time. So if it isn't clear, or well organized, sue me.

In the OT, we learn the basics of the light side vs. the dark side. And we're very clearly presented with Luke's choice in RotJ, where he rejects the path offered him by Yoda and Obi-wan and finds a better way. We, as an audience, feel how correct Luke's choice is, and we see that he is correct when he succeeds in redeeming Anakin, but the movie never dwells on the why. Why is Luke's choice the right one, not in terms of the audience and the emotional reaction, but in terms of the Force? And if Luke's was the right answer, why were Yoda and Obi-wan wrong? There's a ton of fascinating subtext, particularly in the PT, but it's never put into words.

The answer is finally put clearly into words in the TLJ. The Dark side destroys what it hates, or fears. The Light protects what it loves.

Without getting into an essay on the topic, this is why Vader could be redeemed. This is why Luke's choice in RotJ is correct. This is why the Jedi and the Old Republic fell, and why darkness had already consumed the Jedi Order before Palpatine ever put his plan into motion. It's why Obi-wan can't bring himself to kill Vader on Mustafar. It's why Kylo Ren has issues. And it's why Luke ends up where he does in TLJ.

The entire point of the good side is that it can forgive their friends even when they falter.

Yes. Correct. 100%. And yet Luke faltered. (We'll ignore for the moment how you seem unable to forgive him for that, and what that says in terms of your own argument.)

Luke wavered with Ben. He saw darkness and he reached for violence to combat it. And what Luke carries with him isn't just shame, or the crushing weight of failure, as fireproof78 laid out. All of that is true. But he also carries darkness. Born of an almost primal reaction to a threat, but born of darkness all the same. When faced with the darkness rising in Ben, Luke wanted to destroy it.

And that darkness is what lingers in him after Ben turns on him. In his failure, he runs away. To hide, and stew, and think about the end of the Jedi. His attachments, if you want to look at it comparison to his father. All of it, every word, every action, are influenced by the dark side. Luke hasn't fallen like his father did, but he's being manipulated in the same way Yoda and Obi-wan were. Away from the truth, and hope and love, and towards something else.

Rey finally gets him to open himself back up to the Force, and to the galaxy. And in so doing Luke finds the place inside himself that simply knows what is right. I think Luke is attuned to the light in a really interesting way in those moments. He feels the truth of it, instinctively, without necessarily being able to put it into words. It's why he choose to try and save his father. And it's what brings him back from the edge during the final duel with Vader, when he's nearly gone dark. When he "goes" to Crait, Luke is done being a teacher, or an uncle, or a hero or a failure. Luke is finally once again being a Jedi. Maybe the first true Jedi in a really, really long time.

I don't think anybody but Luke could have taken that journey, or made it meaningful. It's both the completion of an arc that began for the Jedi in the PT, and which culminates in Luke's victory over the Emperor in RotJ. It's a metaphysical battle, one which darkness was winning from the beginning of the PT, and which now, finally, after Luke's actions first in RotJ and again in TLJ may have turned in light's favor.
 
Watch in the Rise of Skywalker there will be this, well you know everything is TRUE....FROM A CERTAIN POINT OF VIEW. Seriously. I see it like this Luke helped his father in a sense to die, by defeating the Emperor. The Emperor kept Vader alive thru thr Dark Side. He helped defeat and destroy the evil in Anakin Skywalker called Darth Vader. From a certain point of stinking view. But think about Lucas's original ending for Revenge of the Jedi. Han was to die, Leia was crowned Queen of her People, and Luke was to walk off into the Sunset.

One of Lucas's other concept was the droids were the only connection between all three sections of the Saga. So R2 knows most of the truth, what if Luke went in search for answers? Answers to Anakin's fall and turn? Maybe the arrogance of the Jedi? The blinding of the jedi in the Force not to sense the Sith? Can you imagine Luke being shown the truth thru R2 and feeling like Kenobi and Yoda still not telling him all of the truth as to what happened?

I get what Johnson did. But remember he has Lucas's blessing too. What is shocking at first is Luke Skywalker emulated both of his masters for the same reason. Go into exile. Ren is no Vader. Its in the film, but most of us in real life feel the same way. Think about it. Luke loses Ren and his students. Feels reponsible. But finds out the truth of the Jedi and the Sith. Luke learns something new to know Qui-Gon's secret of immortality to pass into the Force. It takes awhile to sink in, we all though Luke is a hero all through 4-6 a progressive hero.

Its ok now Luke learns the ultimate truth Skywalker's are doomed in a way as a creation of the Force: a Jedi then a Sith. All 9 films its all about the Jedi vs Sith always has been.

Remember the lines through the Saga. It is unavoidable. It is your destiny. I cant wait to see what happens next.

My rhyme about the Sith:

Forged in Fire
Forged in Blood
We are Sith
We are One.

-Koric
 
Luke Skywalker was fine in TLJ. These videos are bullshit.
Due to YouTube algorithms it’s profitable to make video essays about controversial subjects. For pathetic reasons, Star Wars is among them. All these videos repeat the same arguments and basically tell their viewers exactly what they want to hear that they’re right and everyone else is wrong. It’s basically a cult with their own belief system and the videos are their sermons. Kathleen Kennedy is going to be fired any day now. TLJ was a financial failure despite making over a billion dollars and the home media release was the highest grossing of the year. They caused Solo to fail despite all evidence to the contrary. JJ is going to retcon TLJ, and they aren’t sexist they only hate every single woman connected to the production no matter how loosely.

If they weren’t constantly shitting over every single conversation about Star Wars, they’d be laughable. At least they’re confined to their lonely rooms and not breeding.
 
Rey finally gets him to open himself back up to the Force, and to the galaxy. And in so doing Luke finds the place inside himself that simply knows what is right. I think Luke is attuned to the light in a really interesting way in those moments. He feels the truth of it, instinctively, without necessarily being able to put it into words. It's why he choose to try and save his father. And it's what brings him back from the edge during the final duel with Vader, when he's nearly gone dark. When he "goes" to Crait, Luke is done being a teacher, or an uncle, or a hero or a failure. Luke is finally once again being a Jedi. Maybe the first true Jedi in a really, really long time.
There's a cut part from the script of RotJ that's in some of the adaptations, where Yoda's last words to Luke include a line that he's not "the last of the old Jedi, but the first of the new." Since TLJ, I've thought about that sometimes, and how it turns out Yoda was wrong (again), and that Luke was, in fact, the last (but also the culmination) of the old Jedi, and Rey will be the first of the new (presumably). Like you say, what feat could be a more pure expression of the Jedi way than one person stopping an entire army in its tracks without shedding one single drop of blood on either side ("We can't win, but there are alternatives to fighting")? Even the Doctor got some people killed at Demon's Run.

Due to YouTube algorithms it’s profitable to make video essays about controversial subjects. For pathetic reasons, Star Wars is among them. All these videos repeat the same arguments and basically tell their viewers exactly what they want to hear that they’re right and everyone else is wrong.
Not only that, since YouTube (tends to? I don't like long videos, so I'm not sure) put ads prior to playing the video, not only do more strident and fringe videos attract strident and fringe viewers, they also attract people who disagree with them, and then share them to say, "Get a load of this jerk." Indeed, those could be preferable for YouTube, since they make the same ad money if you watch the whole video or if you turn it off in disgust after thirty seconds, since you watch the ad either way, but in the latter case, they don't have to stream as much data to you. Echo-chamber videos telling you your bad opinions are good and everyone secretly agrees with you are incentivized, but so are serving you videos with bad opinions you hate, because you'll still get the ad before you move on to something else.
 
Due to YouTube algorithms it’s profitable to make video essays about controversial subjects. For pathetic reasons, Star Wars is among them.

I often wonder if they even believe the crap they spew. It's all for clicks. I think sometimes they laugh at the people that agree with them secretly.
 
I often wonder if they even believe the crap they spew. It's all for clicks. I think sometimes they laugh at the people that agree with them secretly.
Some probably do, most probably don’t care either way. Apparently the conservative part of YouTube is full of YouTubers who don’t believe anything they say, just performing because it makes them more money.
 
Bad marketing and too much competition from other films?
This. Not so much BAD marketing as reduced marketing. They had The Last Jedi in December, Black Panther in March, A Wrinkle In Time in March, and Infinity War in April. When they release the Star Wars movies in December they have MONTHS of marketing running up to it, but because they wanted to move to a summer schedule, they barely had any time to market it because of Infinity War. In addition to those big Disney movies, there was also Pacific Rim Uprising, Tomb Raider, Ready Player One, amongst others leading to a bit of blockbuster fatigue by the time Solo rolled around. So there were a ton of other movies people had already seen, combined with they couldn't market it the way they have other Star Wars movies. That led to a depressed box office, IMO.
 
What do you think did cause Solo to fail? General franchise fatigue but fatigue that was not related to the movies' content? Bad marketing and too much competition from other films?
Lack of marketing, they didn’t even promote it until the Super Bowl and the movie came out in spring. Plus it was sandwiched between Black Panther and Infinity War which were heavily promoted. It should have been pushed till December, but Disney was wanting Mary Poppins Returns to take the Star Wars slot.
 
What do you think did cause Solo to fail?

Let's not forget:

* anger at The Last Jedi
* questionable casting
* production chaos leaked to the public ( fired directors, acting coach, etc. )
* two films released in the space of less than six months
 
Yes, but Star Wars has continued to grow and expand its storytelling. The PT introduced the shades of gray by Lucas'
It grew to a malignant tumor. Change does not always mean good and subverting expectation isn't always good which is what naive Rian Johnson believed.

It's dime a dozen to show "almost evil people VS almost evil people" in a show. The idiot that rewrote the saga thought that's progress. It's banal.

The entire point of the OT that made it great was that it transcended the mundane of "we're all flawed" to "even evil people can be redeemed".

Even if it could be stretched that it can be done well, Rian failed. The movie is not in any stretch great in isolation.

Now take it out of isolation and put it where it belongs, in the SW saga and it's a disgrace that makes no sense.

Luke and Leia give up on their nephew and son when they have proven even their evil father can be saved.

It makes no sense, it was done badly and even if it had made sense, it turned the story uninteresting.
 
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