Lucifer Season 5 - Beware of Spoilers!

[Christopher]

Not a bad season, but I find the whole premise very silly. He's the creator of the universe, but he's just a dad like anyone else and his Celestial family has totally ordinary squabbles. And Chloe and Dan are hearing all this stuff about their friends literally becoming God and are just treating it like a work promotion. I guess that's part of the joke of the show, how mundane it is, but honestly I'm a little surprised we don't hear more screaming from the religious right about how blasphemous and sinful the show is (and I'm sure the part they'd be most furious about is that God is black).

I have mixed feelings about Ella not knowing. On the one hand, it gets really sucky when you get to the point where everyone in the ensemble cast is in on the main character's secret except for that one last person that they all keep lying to. (See: Lena on Supergirl.) And I'd been hoping to see Ella get the chance to meet God and have a real heart-to-heart with him. But on the other hand, Ella is very much defined by her faith, by not needing proof because she has belief. And she did have a pretty sweet heart-to-heart with him (or I guess I should say Him) after all.

As for the musical episode, I found it quite mediocre and clumsy as musical episodes go. Since the human characters were unaware of the singing, most of the songs felt tacked on and disconnected from the story, just stopping the narrative to comment on it rather than actually advancing it themselves, which is the weakest way to do a musical. And the whole premise felt contrived to give the cast an excuse to sing, which of course is always true of these things, but somehow especially so in this case.

Nice use of location in the finale, with the Olympic stadium. That's a great-looking place. The War for Heaven was a bit understated as those things go, but it was on a TV budget. Although I can't get over how puny that "sword" of Azrael is. That's not a flaming sword, it's barely more than a flaming steak knife.

 

[Skipper]

I'm a little surprised we don't hear more screaming from the religious right about how blasphemous and sinful the show is (and I'm sure the part they'd be most furious about is that God is black).

You are right. Except for the group called One Million Moms (that it's my understanding they are very, very, very far from being a "million"), I don't remember any other meaningful protest about this TV show. But if you think about it, very religious people should criticize every supernatural tv show. Do you remember the fuss about Harry Potter from the religious right? But I believe that simply there are too much TV shows with magic/religious elements out there. It would be like trying to empty the ocean with a spoon. Probably these people are trying to focus only on big targets like movies or very successful books.

 

[FPAlpha]

I hope Ella never finds out the truth. I think it would just break her more then it did the others.

I think it has become a sort of running gag that the most religious and believing person is the only one of the group completely out of the loop.

I loved her storyline, how she spirals down until God himself takes it up to talk with her and help her - that was such a fantastic scene and i hope she truly is better now.

If they ever reveal the truth to her i have no idea how she will actually react - it can go all the ways possible.

 

[Christopher]

But if you think about it, very religious people should criticize every supernatural tv show. Do you remember the fuss about Harry Potter from the religious right? But I believe that simply there are too much TV shows with magic/religious elements out there. It would be like trying to empty the ocean with a spoon. Probably these people are trying to focus only on big targets like movies or very successful books.

Heck, I remember when they were protesting The Smurfs for depicting "Satanic" imagery.

I guess that when that tactic didn't prove effective at winning the culture wars, they found other things to stir people to panic and hysteria about.


If anything, I find Lucifer's premise a bit offensive to non-Christians, because of the way it uncritically accepts the Biblical version of theology as literally true and historically factual (aside from a few apocryphal tweaks like Lilith) and leaves no room for other religions to be valid (let alone scientific cosmology, geology, evolution, etc.). I wish they hadn't been so literal about it all and had established that it's more of a metaphor -- that God and his children manifest in a variety of ways, that humans can only perceive one at a time, and that every religious tradition (and science) is one possible interpretation of the higher truth.

Besides, if we go by Crisis on Infinite Earths and accept that the show's universe is actually "Earth-666" in the multiverse, then that means Lucifer's Dad didn't create the universe -- Oliver Queen did.

 

[Skipper]

If anything, I find Lucifer's premise a bit offensive to non-Christians, because of the way it uncritically accepts the Biblical version of theology as literally true and historically factual (aside from a few apocryphal tweaks like Lilith) and leaves no room for other religions to be valid (let alone scientific cosmology, geology, evolution, etc.). I wish they hadn't been so literal about it all and had established that it's more of a metaphor -- that God and his children manifest in a variety of ways, that humans can only perceive one at a time, and that every religious tradition (and science) is one possible interpretation of the higher truth.

And still they made up rules for going to Hell ("How guilty do you feel") that aren't mirrored in any Christian doctrine that I know. For example, the Catholic Church says that only if you voluntary mortal sinned and you don't repent, you go to Hell. Simple. And the mortal sins are listed in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. How guilty do you feel about it isn't really relevant (unless it makes you repent). But according to the show mythology Hell would be full of homosexuals who felt guilty about their "aberration" (and remember, according to che Catholic Church one doesn't go to the Hell only because is gay) and Heaven would be populated by sociopaths who are perfectly ok with any horrendous crime they did on Earth.

 

[Christopher]

And still they made up rules for going to Hell ("How guilty do you feel") that aren't mirrored in any Christian doctrine that I know.

Exactly. If they're willing to be flexible about that, why be so rigid about the big stuff?

The whole "the guilty condemn themselves" thing is a trope I've seen in a number of fantasy universes (for instance, Diane Duane's novel Stealing the Elf-King's Roses). I figure Lucifer adopted it to make Lucifer himself seem less cruel -- it's really the inhabitants of Hell who are punishing themselves, so that kind of lets him off the hook.

 

[Marc]

They missed a spot for little in-joke.

When Chloe's mum brings the cake mix for the Trixie should have been an Angel Food Cake or even a Devil's Food Cake

 

[Christopher]

When Chloe's mum brings the cake mix for the Trixie should have been an Angel Food Cake or even a Devil's Food Cake

I was more distracted by how they stuck a "New and Improved" sticker over the Betty Crocker logo on the box to avoid an unpaid product placement. Pretty awkward. What, the art department couldn't afford to design a fake brand logo? They came up with all those fake horror movie posters for Dan's apartment wall. (Were those supposed to be Chloe's movies? I'm a little vague on how extensive her acting career was beyond that one hot tub movie.)

 

[Skipper]

(Were those supposed to be Chloe's movies? I'm a little vague on how extensive her acting career was beyond that one hot tub movie.)

According to the Lucifer Wiki, it was the only movie she starred in.
https://lucifer.fandom.com/wiki/Chloe_Decker
She had a more prolific career in the alternate universe where she remained an actress, but she was still deeply embarrassed by that movie.

 

[Gov Kodos]

If anything, I find Lucifer's premise a bit offensive to non-Christians, because of the way it uncritically accepts the Biblical version of theology as literally true and historically factual (aside from a few apocryphal tweaks like Lilith) and leaves no room for other religions to be valid (let alone scientific cosmology, geology, evolution, etc.)..

That's navel gazing twaddle. Lucifer says no more about non-Christians than a production of the Mahabarata does about Christianity. Besides, it's based on a comic book. It's not a theology class.

 

[LaxScrutiny]

Besides, if we go by Crisis on Infinite Earths and accept that the show's universe is actually "Earth-666" in the multiverse, then that means Lucifer's Dad didn't create the universe -- Oliver Queen did.

That would make for a cute post-credits scene for the series finale: Spectral Ollie watching "Lucifer" on his spectral TV and having a spectral laugh.

 

[dupersuper]

Quick question: so, according to the series' mythology, a sociopath who can't feel any guilt goes to the paradise..?

The whole "the guilty condemn themselves" thing is a trope I've seen in a number of fantasy universes (for instance, Diane Duane's novel Stealing the Elf-King's Roses). I figure Lucifer adopted it to make Lucifer himself seem less cruel -- it's really the inhabitants of Hell who are punishing themselves, so that kind of lets him off the hook.

Actually, they took it from the Sandman comics from which the Lucifer comics spun off.

Besides, if we go by Crisis on Infinite Earths and accept that the show's universe is actually "Earth-666" in the multiverse, then that means Lucifer's Dad didn't create the universe -- Oliver Queen did.

Well, RE-created.

 

[Skipper]

Actually, they took it from the Sandman comics from which the Lucifer comics spun off.

So, what happens in the comics to sociopaths and similar who are perfectly ok with their crimes on Earth?

 

[dupersuper]

So, what happens in the comics to sociopaths and similar who are perfectly ok with their crimes on Earth?

They go to Heaven (or at least not to Hell). While walking through Hell closing all the gates after he's decided to retire, Lucifer tells Sandman about a cult dedicated to following every vice, and how statistically there are no more of them in Hell than people of any other religion. Hell is basically Heaven for masochists.

 

[Christopher]

Actually, they took it from the Sandman comics from which the Lucifer comics spun off.

I've been wondering just how much or how little from the comics they have used in the show. In particular, was Mazikeen's "bony xylophone" outfit based on her comics look? I know she wears a half-mask in the comics, at least.

Well, RE-created.

Ahh, yes, but the producers said that the Lucifer scene in Crisis was played as if it took place before the start of the series, which means that the entire run of Lucifer has been post-Crisis.

 

[dupersuper]

I've been wondering just how much or how little from the comics they have used in the show. In particular, was Mazikeen's "bony xylophone" outfit based on her comics look? .

Not that I've seen, but I only have the first 2 or 3 Lucifer trades.

Ahh, yes, but the producers said that the Lucifer scene in Crisis was played as if it took place before the start of the series, which means that the entire run of Lucifer has been post-Crisis.

Yes, but the universe was created more than 5 years ago...

 

[Christopher]

Yes, but the universe was created more than 5 years ago...

But the Spectre re-created the Multiverse at the Beginning of Time, and then presumably it all unfolded again over 13.8 billion years more or less the same way as it did the first time, albeit with a few alterations.

So maybe Dennis Godsbert is somehow an evolved form of Oliver Queen/the Spectre, as he manifests in the universe of Earth-666. Perhaps the reason it's such a Biblically literalist universe is because it's been shaped by his memories of Sunday school lessons.

But if God is Oliver, and Lilith is the only woman he's ever loved... does that mean Lilith is actually Felicity?

 

[Tuskin38]

Season 5 part 2 bloopers

https://twitter.com/NetflixGeeked/status/1402663664948113409

 

[Aragorn]

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The end begins Sept. 10.

 

[JD]

Wow, I didn't expect it to be so soon, I had assumed it wouldn't be until next year.