Lets talk about Helen Noel

[Gotham Central]

So, I'm watching "Dagger of the Mind" and I realized that Helen is probably the only female guest star that was ever allowed to have a real personality beyond being the love interest of the week. She got to be kind of spunky and even made Kirk a little uncomfortable.

I think that other than Uhura, she is the only other woman to appear in TOS that does not play the helpless damsel in destress or object of male possesion.

Am I wrong?

I think that she was actually one of the few well handled female characters. I think the only thing that undermined her was the fact that she wore a starfleet issue bra that was so comically pointed that she could put someone's eye out.

 

[Kelso]

Helen Noel?

I don't think she's ever been mentioned on this forum.

 

[Wingsley]

I think Miranda Jones was also another challenging, complex and forceful personality, full of surprises.

Keep in mind that any of these female guest stars are just that: guest stars.

The bigger flaw I see in TOS is that regulars like Uhura, Chapel and Rand weren't given more to do to apply their characters. IIRC, it wasn't till the TAS outing "The Slaver Weapon" that Uhura got to see action on an away mission. (Her contribution to "The Gamesters of Triskellion" and "Plato's Stepchildren" were a propos for the sexist '60's.)

 

[kythe]

She was more of a free-thinker than most women on TOS, but she still was a love interest of Kirk's. When they were testing the mind-control machine, she could have tried to implant any thoughts into his head. Not surprisingly, she chooses a romantic fantasy between herself and Kirk. They still didn't get away from that in this episode.

 

[Gary Mitchell]

I think the only thing that undermined her was the fact that she wore a starfleet issue bra that was so comically pointed that she could put someone's eye out.

I wouldn't mind if she put my eye out with them.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

This thread is useless without pictures. There I said it.

 

[Michael]

I think [...] she is the only other woman to appear in TOS that does not play the helpless damsel in destress or object of male possesion.

How about Areel Shaw (Joan Marshall), the Romulan Commander (Joanne Linville) or Amanda Grayson (Jane Wyatt) for a start?

 

[kythe]

How about the Areel Shaw (Joan Marshall), Romulan Commander (Joanne Linville) or Amanda Grayson (Jane Wyatt) for a start?

Each of those women were a love interest in their own way. Areel Shaw had a strong potential there. Even today, law is a very male dominated field, so I'm quite impressed that they showed a female lawyer. But they couldn't get away from her being a former love interest of Kirk. Even though she was officially prosecuting him, she was secretly on his side and trying to help him.

The Romulan Commander was great as a woman in power, but a personal relationship with a man proved to be her downfall as well. Spock didn't seem to have any difficulty manipulating her, since she also can't separate her career interests from her love life.

Amanda is a more unique case, but the only episode we see her in has her following Sarek around. We see very little of her, but she isn't shown with a real separate identity from Sarek and Spock. Her role is to be a wife and mother.

 

[sbk1234]

I really don't like where this thread is heading. Just don't forget for a second, there is a lot more to Helen Noel than just a good mind and strong personality!

 

[Gotham Central]

She was more of a free-thinker than most women on TOS, but she still was a love interest of Kirk's. When they were testing the mind-control machine, she could have tried to implant any thoughts into his head. Not surprisingly, she chooses a romantic fantasy between herself and Kirk. They still didn't get away from that in this episode.

True enough, but the way it was portrayed on screen, she seemed more like she was teasing/playing with him more than anything else. If you recall, when the Captain actually tried acting on those feelings, she was all business. Indeed, from the moment she turned up on screen she was teasing him about the X-mas party. If anything, she seemed to enjoy tossing around her sexuality because she knew it made Kirk feel a bit awkward. she seemed much more in control than many of the other women on the show.

 

[MANT!]

She was more of a free-thinker than most women on TOS, but she still was a love interest of Kirk's. When they were testing the mind-control machine, she could have tried to implant any thoughts into his head. Not surprisingly, she chooses a romantic fantasy between herself and Kirk. They still didn't get away from that in this episode.

True enough, but the way it was portrayed on screen, she seemed more like she was teasing/playing with him more than anything else. If you recall, when the Captain actually tried acting on those feelings, she was all business. Indeed, from the moment she turned up on screen she was teasing him about the X-mas party. If anything, she seemed to enjoy tossing around her sexuality because she knew it made Kirk feel a bit awkward. she seemed much more in control than many of the other women on the show.

Yes but she looked sooo delicious..

 

[AJBryant]

Yeah, she was a hottie.

But don't forget -- one reason the character had so much personality was that it was originally written to have been Yeoman Rand, and she had the presence and background to have made sense in the situation.

 

[Vonstadt]

I had such a crush on her as a kid! Still do a little, smart, intelligent, strong willed and a total fox to boot

Wow!

Vons

 

[Gotham Central]

Yeah, she was a hottie.

But don't forget -- one reason the character had so much personality was that it was originally written to have been Yeoman Rand, and she had the presence and background to have made sense in the situation.

That does explain alot.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

About time with making with the pics.

 

[The Boy Who Cried Worf]

So, I'm watching "Dagger of the Mind" and I realized that Helen is probably the only female guest star that was ever allowed to have a real personality beyond being the love interest of the week. She got to be kind of spunky and even made Kirk a little uncomfortable.

I think that other than Uhura, she is the only other woman to appear in TOS that does not play the helpless damsel in destress or object of male possesion.

Am I wrong?

I think that she was actually one of the few well handled female characters. I think the only thing that undermined her was the fact that she wore a starfleet issue bra that was so comically pointed that she could put someone's eye out.

And yet when I saw the title of this thread my first thought was "She was hot"

 

[T'Bonz]

I had such a crush on her as a kid! Still do a little, smart, intelligent, strong willed and a total fox to boot

Wow!

Vons

LOL on that steel bra. That must have been uncomfortable!

 

[Neopeius]

Even today, law is a very male dominated field

Is it? I thought women were in the legal field in the same percentage as in the population as a whole.

They haven't reached equal representation as law *makers* but I'm pretty sure they have as lawyers.

 

[kythe]

Even today, law is a very male dominated field

Is it? I thought women were in the legal field in the same percentage as in the population as a whole.

They haven't reached equal representation as law *makers* but I'm pretty sure they have as lawyers.

Maybe in numbers, but not in position. Women are commonly court clerks, paralegals or junior lawyers, but female lawyesr rarely make "partner" in law firms and more rarely are judges. TV actually does a better job at making it look like women have an equal chance in a courtroom setting. Female lawyers who do well need to have strong personalities and be very aggressive.

For what it's worth, Areel Shaw actually was a very good lawyer. She was very professional in the courtroom and made good arguments. She still got what she wanted, which was for Kirk to win. Kirk's own lawyer didn't really do much.

As for the direction this thread is heading, it is pretty apparant that the primary role of these women is their appearance.

 

[Anwar]

What about Edith Keeler, I think she was portrayed as more than just a love interest of the week.