No, it's not. It is, essentially, dealing with a split personality, much like Stargate dealt with Goa'uld. It's a pretty standard science fiction trope.
News Latif: Dealing With Ash Tyler’s Sexual Assault
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Well, it was in the last season, but now that Voq's personality is gone we are left with an abused human who has all memories of the person who made it possible for him to be abused, who used his body to threaten someone he loves and even kill someone. I mean, that's at least a bit special, except the "remembering someone commiting murder while in your body" part, that's pretty common. Happens to me all the time.
If you say so.
I'm not the only one.
I know. I just don't think it's thought out very well and is confusing. Maybe it will make sense to me in Season 2.
I still don't see where there is for this character to go. I can see him being killed off heroically once the writers hit a wall and don't know what to do with him. It's an unecesarily convoluted storyline and character. And that's saying something for Star Trek.
Better understanding between the Federation and the Klingons, so there are still hostilities but not outright war. Same as TOS. Maybe Tyler becomes an Ambassador to the Federation... which he obviously wouldn't still be 30 years down the road. But, for DSC, it would possibly work.
Kor seems to have a pretty good understanding of humans in "Errand of Mercy" when he talks to Kirk, even if it is heavily filtered through a Klingon lens. He sees both of their species as being alphas, as opposed to how he perceived the Organians.
Kor seems to have a pretty good understanding of humans in "Errand of Mercy" when he talks to Kirk, even if it is heavily filtered through a Klingon lens. He sees both of their species as being alphas, as opposed to how he perceived the Organians.
A lot of this was quite ambiguous, I think deliberately so.
That's the way I interpreted it. Voq was fighting for control of Tyler's mind and body, triggered by the presence of L'Rell, and intermittently succeeded. Rewatch the scene where he strangles Michael. You see Ash losing control before your eyes, partially and then completely. Watch how he goes from Ash speaking English to speaking English with a Klingon accent to speaking Klingon. (It is one hell of a performance by Shazad Latif, by the way, doing something with a high degree of difficulty remarkably well.) After he was transported back to Discovery, the two personas resumed fighting for control until L'Rell resolved the issue. The exact mechanics of what was going on was not exactly crystal clear, and I don't think Tyler himself fully understands what happened or who/what he actually is.
The question of whether L'Rell raped Tyler is even more ambiguous and the show has waded into one hell of a swamp by going there.
There is no question that the Tyler persona perceived it as nonconsensual and was seriously traumatized by it. That was meant to be very real. However, I think it is quite unclear whether 1. Tyler was reinterpreting a memory of consensual sex; 2. L'Rell thought it was consensual but once Tyler's personality was laid over Voq's it actually wasn't; 3. L'Rell wanted him and didn't consider (or perhaps didn't care) whether or not he was consenting; or 4. L'Rell knew full well that "Tyler" was not consenting and she got twisted pleasure out of assaulting the persona who had replaced her lover.
While I was watching the show my interpretation of what I was seeing shifted, and I think that's what was supposed to happen. Having seen the whole thing, I would bet on #2. It's the interpretation that works best with everything we were shown. It's also the most interesting and complicated possibility.
That's the way I interpreted it. Voq was fighting for control of Tyler's mind and body, triggered by the presence of L'Rell, and intermittently succeeded. Rewatch the scene where he strangles Michael. You see Ash losing control before your eyes, partially and then completely. Watch how he goes from Ash speaking English to speaking English with a Klingon accent to speaking Klingon. (It is one hell of a performance by Shazad Latif, by the way, doing something with a high degree of difficulty remarkably well.) After he was transported back to Discovery, the two personas resumed fighting for control until L'Rell resolved the issue. The exact mechanics of what was going on was not exactly crystal clear, and I don't think Tyler himself fully understands what happened or who/what he actually is.
The question of whether L'Rell raped Tyler is even more ambiguous and the show has waded into one hell of a swamp by going there.
There is no question that the Tyler persona perceived it as nonconsensual and was seriously traumatized by it. That was meant to be very real. However, I think it is quite unclear whether 1. Tyler was reinterpreting a memory of consensual sex; 2. L'Rell thought it was consensual but once Tyler's personality was laid over Voq's it actually wasn't; 3. L'Rell wanted him and didn't consider (or perhaps didn't care) whether or not he was consenting; or 4. L'Rell knew full well that "Tyler" was not consenting and she got twisted pleasure out of assaulting the persona who had replaced her lover.
While I was watching the show my interpretation of what I was seeing shifted, and I think that's what was supposed to happen. Having seen the whole thing, I would bet on #2. It's the interpretation that works best with everything we were shown. It's also the most interesting and complicated possibility.
Absolutely. I ran a Stargate D20 RPG storyline where a character was captured and taken as a host for a Goa'uld. Some time later, a freak accident left the snake's higher brain functions severed, allowing the human to regain control, but he still had the regenerative abilities of the snake and access to its memories. He had severe issues caused by remembering what "he" had done whilst the snake was in control, since it was hard to distinguish the memories (similar to Carter's predisposition to fancy the Tok'ra guy who had been the lover of Jolinar, the Tok'ra that temporarily possessed her).
Ash MAY be misremembering fully consensual sex between Voq and L'Rell, or it may have been genuine rape in that L'Rell still thought she was fucking Voq when Ash's personality was now dominant and didn't consent. The grey areas are fascinating, and it would be interesting to see if L'Rell cares about the distinction - she might assume that Voq's mind was still present and his consent is all that matters, with "Tyler" being a mere fiction that can be ignored... but Voq would essentially be "asleep" in that scenario, and our own culture frowns on sex with someone who is unconscious, even if they have given consent in the past...
As stated upthread, I'm glad Trek is, for a change, not shying away from tough societal issues.
#jIH'je I think it would be.
I think the interpretations will be shaped by the need to keep the character viable. That isn't exactly the most authentic source for a rape story. How anyone (in story) thinks they can trust Ash is a big stretch.
That's...concerning. You should have that looked at.
This whole thing reminds me of a Cracked sketch video where one of the characters is so feverish that he asks another character if an alien could "eat away at my me." My description will not do it justice so the whole video is below, but it's just the first minute or so:
She might be angry at Voq for no longer being in control and being "weak" from her view. Would be an interesting dynamic to be sure.
There are so many places to go with this character and L'Rell as well. I'm glad they are doing more.
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You've managed to lay this all out in a very coherent way, much better than I can, and I agree with all your conclusions. I also found the scenes with the language shifts compelling to watch. The actor does deserve much more credit that he generally gets here for his handling of the character transitions.
Or, for the ENT-Impaired, such as myself: How about when the Eymorg use the Controller? So Ash would be like the Eymorg when it comes to Klingons and Voq is like the Controller. So now, Ash knows all there is about Klingon culture and society.
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