Spoilers Kelvin Timeline Character appearances in SNW?

[evilchumlee]

It's not black and white but a corful journey of people I know have great potential but cannot just step in to those roles without testing.

There is some context for them being kind of... more brazen versions of the TOS people.

Kelvin Kirk is kind of justified in his arrogance. He's always succeeded. He's a starship Captain quite literally immediately after graduating the Academy. He's never been humbled. Perhaps Post-Beyond, having lost the Enterprise and countless crew, he may have finally found his humbling moment.

The rest of the crew are in similar boats but different circumstances. Scotty is... potentially unstable from his isolation on Delta Vega. He's not really used to interacting with people other than Keenser. I think that's also an important element of their relationship... Scotty was sent there as a punishment... which would lead to me to believe Keenser was as well. Those two kind of formed a bond through shared misery.

McCoy is... McCoy.

Watch TOS 'All our yesterdays'

Yeah but take the context into consideration there. Spock isn't really in his right mind. He's agitated and almost emotional... I don't take that quote as Spock truly thinking McCoy is racist and that he really doesn't like it, it feels to me more like a "read the room, not right now."

 

[Pauln6]

Well, no.

It was the process of watching these people mature, become leaders in their own right, not perfect, but flawed, and needing the fire of real world experience and defeat to forge them.

Nothing "lol" about it. Thesd films show the process rather than just the end product. I loved them because of flaws and struggles not the arrogance.

It's not black and white but a corful journey of people I know have great potential but cannot just step in to those roles without testing.

Oh yeah I do agree that the characters go on a rollercoaster journey and end up in roughly the right place. What worries me is that the third movie where they were more well-rounded professionals was way less popular than the one where they were gung-ho nutters.

I wonder if HISHE did a version of ST09 where the crew throw Spock off the ship and follow through with Kirk's emotional desire to chase Nero immediately after the destruction of Vulcan?

 

[fireproof78]

Oh yeah I do agree that the characters go on a rollercoaster journey and end up in roughly the right place. What worries me is that the third movie where they were more well-rounded professionals was way less popular than the one where they were gung-ho nutters.

This assumes that it is immediately evident that the "nutters" part is the one saying "This is good."

The narrative is very much one of growth, effort, and mistake. And in the third movie, the "well rounded professional" wants to resign. Should we take that as a sign that after a few years in a job we should resign from it?

 

[Pauln6]

This assumes that it is immediately evident that the "nutters" part is the one saying "This is good."

The narrative is very much one of growth, effort, and mistake. And in the third movie, the "well rounded professional" wants to resign. Should we take that as a sign that after a few years in a job we should resign from it?

If you are a politician, YES. Please resign and let younger people take the reigns. Doing the same thing for decades isn't working.

As far as Trek goes, I actually think it would have served the supporting cast well if they had let them all move into other roles in the TOS movies. TWoK works so well for Kirk because he has moved on to something less satisfying and it is the core of the movie. The problem, I suppose is that the actors were a reluctant to return for just a couple of scenes. I do think Uhura's role in STIII should have been bigger - she should have been shown as the person delaying the security response to the theft and there should have been a scene with Sarek smuggling her off Earth - but what she got to do was great fun.

In that respect, cute cameos from Kelvin characters might work, name-drops of admirals, calls on the intercom. I wouldn't mind that imbecile engineer Logan showing up and being a moron and dying again, like Kenny from South Park.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

Could it be a tongue-in-cheek criticism of people who didn't like all the big explosions, lens flares, end of the universe as we know it storylines? As in, Kirk would be bored (and boring) if the movies weren't about these things.

 

[fireproof78]

If you are a politician, YES. Please resign and let younger people take the reigns. Doing the same thing for decades isn't working.

Irrelevant point feels very irrelevant. Star Trek is not prescriptive behavior for politicians.

As far as Trek goes, I actually think it would have served the supporting cast well if they had let them all move into other roles in the TOS movies. TWoK works so well for Kirk because he has moved on to something less satisfying and it is the core of the movie. The problem, I suppose is that the actors were a reluctant to return for just a couple of scenes. I do think Uhura's role in STIII should have been bigger - she should have been shown as the person delaying the security response to the theft and there should have been a scene with Sarek smuggling her off Earth - but what she got to do was great fun.

I would agree in general about the cast moving on, but TWOK is lesser for it because it repeats a beat from TMP and then Kirk is again dissatisfied and the whole "midlife crisis" theme repeats, and he faces an enemy and feels "young" again. He doesn't move on. He becomes a starship captain again. So, his actions are kind of contradictory in some ways. Very human, but hardly what I would call prescriptive for behavioral lessons.

I think the Kelvin films show a more interesting arc for a younger Kirk having to find his place, figure out his identify and struggle with what it means to be a captain, rather than an older Kirk struggling with feeling like he's lost his purpose because, time and again in Trek is shown, being captain is the place to be.

Message, Spock?

 

[evilchumlee]

I do think Uhura's role in STIII should have been bigger - she should have been shown as the person delaying the security response to the theft

That was implied though? Uhura was critical to the whole operation. Yeah sure we didn't SEE alot of it, but she was of utmost importance to it all.

The biggest disrespect to Uhura was ST6, having to use the books to try to translate Klingon. That was like, Uhura's real moment to shine... and it got played for a gag.

 

[Pauln6]

Could it be a tongue-in-cheek criticism of people who didn't like all the big explosions, lens flares, end of the universe as we know it storylines? As in, Kirk would be bored (and boring) if the movies weren't about these things.

I lived through the eighties, I have seen MANY boring movies full of explosions. I do think the TOS movies had a certain something that the TNG movies lacked and you could even see them trying to turn Picard into more of an action hero to try and capture it. I think the success of a movie is the degree to which it is rewatchable, and excitement tends to make them more rewatchable.

As far as Kirk's psychology goes, I have certainly known intelligent, charismatic people, who get bored and depressed by mundanity and their own company. Kirk certainly seems fit into that mold.

 

[Quantum21]

Unlikely but not impossible. We know it's been acknowledged in Prime, but not when.