JAMES CAWLEY SPEAKS!

[HerbFlynn]

The last batch of episodes was definitely funded via Kickstarter.

Films all complete BEFORE the guidelines. As often mentioned "guidelines" were not "rules" and CBS is dealing on a "case by case basis". and James has a great relationship with CBS.

James Raised funds for films, made the films and then didn't release them - there's a fine line between James and Alec.

James is the winner - an official set tour to keep him busy when he's not on tour as Elvis and the fans still love him. People may be complaining about the unreleased episodes but I don't think I've read a single nasty thing about James - Everyone forgave him.

No one has organized a movement for James to refund money,etc.Not like he doesn't have money coming coming in from the tour to pay people back who ask from his kick-starter.

Besides. who could get fans to travel to the middle of nowhere to see a reproduction of sets? (and not 100% original due to the addition of the computers to run the graphics,etc.)

 

[Admiral2]

Why would I assume that, when it has not been suggested or implied, and in fact, the exact opposite is documented; James was tired of and giving up fanfilms long before the guidelines. The set tour and the guidelines gave him a very easy out.

Um I was responding to HerbFlynn...

 

[cultcross]

No one has organized a movement for James to refund money,etc.

Why would they? When you donate to a kickstarter you accept the risks associated with a project, and CBS stepping in and saying 'enough' was the biggest foreseeable risk in any fan film Kickstarter. James is not obliged to risk being sued and financially ruined in order to release additional NV episodes. He's especially at risk these days as a license holder, who will have contracts with CBS about the use of their IP which is and isn't permitted.

The guidelines issued by CBS are extremely clear; as much as some here seem desperate to pretend they're little more than mutable suggestions, productions which defy them are taking serious legal risks. There were no special passes issued to any particular production, NV included, and James is right in his implication that STC are playing with fire by ignoring the guidelines. I can't begrudge anyone saying "too risky for me" and packing up shop. Because frankly that would be the ethical thing to do, in my mind. The rights holder has said 'this is the line' and it is in very poor taste to continually dance over it.

 

[HerbFlynn]

Kickstarter terms of Use:

https://www.kickstarter.com/section4?ref=faq-basics_creatoroblig

Section 4 "How Projects Work" is the sections in question.

 

[Phoenix219]

They are extremely clear..... clearly *guidelines* not *laws* .... that will be dealt with on a case by case basis, that "in production" and already released projects are grandfathered in.... that give a safe haven for those in compliance, and business as usual for those who don't..... if you make too much noise, you might get a C & D.... and if that happens you just stop. No other fan film outfit is doing things like nor acting like Alec Peters. Its no different then it has been for a decade plus - just everyone is running scared now.....

 

[NewHorizon]

It would be really nice if anything in production before the guidelines came out was released.

 

[BrEnDoN]

I know James had stopped making these before the guidelines before were released, but I imagine he planned on releasing the episodes they were working on. However, if he genuinely believes he shouldn't do that because they don't comply with the guidelines and/or because it might impact his licence, that is entirely his right no matter how much we might disagree.

I know the guidelines allow for projects already in post production to be finished but I don't think a series with multiple episodes still to come out is what they had in mind with that. It's one thing to release one after the guidelines, but it's another to keep doing it...

 

[cultcross]

that "in production" and already released projects are grandfathered in.

I don't know where this 'in production are grandfathered in' thing is coming from. The quote is below.

JVC: "Guidelines are meant for films on a going-forward basis. If this is a film that has already been in existence before... that's not an issue for us."

"We're not reviewing your script, we're not reviewing your ideas, we're not reviewing your casting, we're not reviewing your creativity. If you are done with your film and you feel it fits within the guidelines and you're happy with where it's at... by all means, get it out to your public... We're not looking to micromanage what you do."

Bolding mine. "If you feel it fits within the guidelines". The guidelines applied to all releases after their publishing date.

And no, they're never going to say "we will sue you if you don't" because nobody says that. "May result in legal action", "will be examined in a case by case basis" and other caveated language but the meaning is clear. The rights holder has kindly provided guidelines to avoid legal action for violating its copyright, and you ignore then at your own legal peril and the peril of the continuation of permitted fan films generally.

 

[HerbFlynn]

"Guidelines are meant for films on a going-forward basis. If this is a film that has already been in existence before... that's not an issue for us."

James had his films "In Existence but "Not Released" at the time for the Guidelines - he can't use the guidelines as an excuse. However, he did say he was "getting tired" of making fan films and it wasn't fun for him anymore" at one point BEFORE the guidelines. For whatever reason, he was burned out. He then found a way to save the sets, and used his 10+ year relationship with CBS to licence the tour.

Again, he's the winner in all this,and the fans who wanted to see the films, are not. He's got no problems and everyone still loves him.

 

[urbandefault]

"Guidelines are meant for films on a going-forward basis. If this is a film that has already been in existence before... that's not an issue for us."

James had his films "In Existence but "Not Released" at the time for the Guidelines - he can't use the guidelines as an excuse. However, he did say he was "getting tired" of making fan films and it wasn't fun for him anymore" at one point BEFORE the guidelines. For whatever reason, he was burned out. He then found a way to save the sets, and used his 10+ year relationship with CBS to licence the tour.

Again, he's the winner in all this,and the fans who wanted to see the films, are not. He's got no problems and everyone still loves him.

Apparently not everyone.

 

[BrEnDoN]

James had his films "In Existence but "Not Released" at the time for the Guidelines - he can't use the guidelines as an excuse.

I just don't think a series with multiple episodes in post production is what they had in mind with that. It's just not a good look to keep releasing episodes that don't comply with the guidelines and keep hiding behind "It's OK, they were almost ready to go before the guidelines"

However, he did say he was "getting tired" of making fan films and it wasn't fun for him anymore" at one point BEFORE the guidelines. For whatever reason, he was burned out.

That's why he stopped making any new ones. As for releasing the ones already in progress, that is a different situation. I imagine he planned on doing that before the guidelines and/or he got a licence. If he genuinely believes he can't/shouldn't because of one or both of those things, then he shouldn't. I'm going to take him at his word that he does, because I believe not wanting to do it anymore was about making new ones in the future, not about completing the ones already being worked on...

 

[OpenMaw]

Although I think it is generally smart to follow these guidelines, I do agree with those that say it is very unlikely CBS is going to "lock weapons" on a fan series if they stretched or bent a few of the rules. IE if your run time exceeds the "two 15 minute/30 minute total" rule or if you make your own props and junk like that. The goal of the guidelines is to avoid another Axanar, a fan productions with delusions of officiality.

 

[USS Intrepid]

Although I think it is generally smart to follow these guidelines, I do agree with those that say it is very unlikely CBS is going to "lock weapons" on a fan series if they stretched or bent a few of the rules. IE if your run time exceeds the "two 15 minute/30 minute total" rule or if you make your own props and junk like that. The goal of the guidelines is to avoid another Axanar, a fan productions with delusions of officiality.

You're allowed to make your own props and costumes. They do however suggest that those who buy unlicensed merchandise would not benefit from the safe harbour they're offering.

 

[Phoenix219]

It seemed to be more about nitpicking the quality of what he had already FINISHED due to the competition.... he scrapped and refilmed a *completed episode.* Another one isn't coming out becaues of *personal grudges/disagreements.* Another one.... well, i have NO idea! There is just no good reason to keep these things shelved for literally YEARS.

 

[Noname Given]

"Guidelines are meant for films on a going-forward basis. If this is a film that has already been in existence before... that's not an issue for us."

James had his films "In Existence but "Not Released" at the time for the Guidelines - he can't use the guidelines as an excuse. However, he did say he was "getting tired" of making fan films and it wasn't fun for him anymore" at one point BEFORE the guidelines. For whatever reason, he was burned out. He then found a way to save the sets, and used his 10+ year relationship with CBS to licence the tour.

Again, he's the winner in all this,and the fans who wanted to see the films, are not. He's got no problems and everyone still loves him.

In this context - "In Exisistence" means ALREADY released to the pubic via Youtube, etc. Mr. Van Critters also stated if a group was in the final stages of POST-PRODUCTION and a couple of days from releasing at the time the Guidlines were released; again, CBS would PROBABLY not raisse an issue.
^^^
But if a film was still filming/in actual production - or MORE then a few days away from release at the time teh Guidlines dropped, they WERE subject to the guidlines.

 

[Nightowl1701]

We'll know one way or the other, soon enough. I've assumed all along Discovery's debut was the ultimate cutoff for all in-production fan films that don't strictly adhere to the guidelines. If STC sticks to its' planned September series finale, and Les Moonves' claim about DSC debuting 'late summer, early fall' proves true... the two shows are on a collision course.

 

[Noname Given]

We'll know one way or the other, soon enough. I've assumed all along Discovery's debut was the ultimate cutoff for all in-production fan films that don't strictly adhere to the guidelines. If STC sticks to its' planned September series finale, and Les Moonves' claim about DSC debuting 'late summer, early fall' proves true... the two shows are on a collision course.

Why? They (CBS) have said they will take things on a case by case basis. Effectively that means IF a group doesn't follow the guidelines they MAY be sued - not WILL 100% be sued - MAY be sued.

Obviously the STC group has decided to go ahead with their plans probably thinking that since they have a proven track record of not making/taking any profit and have 501c status, that CBS will not pursue legal action. They could be right, they could be wrong, but they're taking a risk

And in the end, no matter how it turns out for STC, that will have zero effect on how CBS responds to any other Star Trek fan film project that violates the guidelines.

 

[GSchnitzer]

Yet another reminder:

To clarify some details on our 2015 Star Trek New Voyages Kickstarter, we specified to what the donated money was to be applied:

"FIRST GOAL: $20,000

"$20,000 covers the basic costs (very basic) of our July 2015 Shoot, such as electricity, equipment rental and other filming expenses. So, making our base goal allows us to cover our basic expenses, and leaves covering the rest of the shoot expenses up to our production team.

"$50,000 STRETCH GOAL

"With your help in reaching this goal, the rest of our expenses for our July 2015 "Torment of Destiny" shoot will be met, and this will also allow us the funding necessary to complete more of our standing sets including realize a fully completed Medical office/Lab and Exam Room! So Please help the good Doctor McCoy get his digs!"

Since we (just barely) hit the $50,000 Stretch Goal ($50,001!) we seem to be obliged to provide the following things:

• Basic production costs for our June 2015 shoot ("Torment of Destiny") DONE
• Post-production costs (editing, color timing, music, sound effects, etc.) necessary to get "Torment of Destiny" released IN PROCESS
• Completion of more of our standing sets--including McCoy's medical office/laboratory/examination room Sick Bay suite. DONE

So, to make good on this Kickstarter campaign, and to make good on the one and only deliverable that remains outstanding still, we've been working on trying to complete "Torment of Destiny" as time allows. Much time, energy, money, and resources are being sunk into our new "Star Trek: The Original Set Tour" project, of course. But we continue to get work done in dribs and drabs on "Torment of Destiny;" I'm optimistic that we'll finally get it out the door eventually.

I don't know what James' plans are for "Origins: The Protracted Man," and for "Bread and Savagery." (I knew at one time, but it's all a new ball game since CBS' Fan Film Guidelines were released and whatever fan film prohibitions there might now be placed on James under the Star Trek: The Original Set Tour licensing arrangement. I don't know what James' thinking is now; much post-production work remains on these two episodes.)

 

[HerbFlynn]

Wouldn't "Torment of Destiny" also be restricted by any restrictions affecting other fan films regardless of James' excellent relationship with CBS?

 

[GSchnitzer]

Wouldn't "Torment of Destiny" also be restricted by any restrictions affecting other fan films regardless of James' excellent relationship with CBS?

I think there's some kind of notion that works that are already shot and which are in postproduction are "grandfathered" in and are not subject to the new guidelines. Others more knowledgable than me on the subject can address that.

Also, apart from whatever the new guidelines permit or prohibit, James--now a license holder--might now be prohibited by that license from using the STTOSST sets in a fan film production.