Jadzia Dax YES OR NO ?

[Kathryn-janeway]

Well iv had a discussion in another thread on the character jadzia dax. And i wanted to see how many fans out there love the character or hate the character. Because recently iv seen alot of negativity about her and wanted to know why ds9 fans dont like her.

 

[Navaros]

No.

I hate Jadzia Dax because:

1. She is horribly acted (one facial expression, monotone, wooden delivery of every line, etc.).

2. She is horribly written (not once did she ever say anything worth listening to; her 'jokes' were never funny; her "Curzon did this, Curzon did that statements" can cure insomnia because they are so unbelievably boring to listen to; every one of her lines was a waste of screen-time).

3. She is inherently annoying due to her smug, pompous attitude.

4. She serves no useful function on the show whatsoever; her character is therefore 100% irrelevant. That is why they didn't even bother to replace her with someone who performed the same function that she did (i.e. 'science officer'.) If she was not useless and irrelevant, they would have (yes, I know they cast Ezri, who also is useless and irrelevant to the show, but she did not replace Jadzia's function, because Jadzia had no function). It is very obvious that Jadzia was cast for 'eye-candy' purposes only (even though she doesn't look good anyway, yet inexplicably some people think she does )

5. Her rampant promiscuity does not make her 'cool' or whatever the writers were going for with that, rather it just makes her even worse and more of a joke as a character.

6. Disgustingly, she had the gall to insult a bonafide real-life literary master, Victor Hugo, for allegedly writing 'one dimensional female characters' even though she herself, Jadzia, is one of the very worst and most one-dimensional female characters ever written.

 

[C_Miller]

I'm not a huge fan. I just don't feel like she had a role in the stories the same way the other characters did. While Sisko, Odo, and Kira were technically the only characters that were a natural part of the story, Bashir, Quark, Worf and O'Brien were given their story lines that fit into the main stories. I think the creators and writers just didn't know what to do with her and it showed. I watched through the whole series and now I compiled a list of my favorite episodes to watch through again and there isn't a single Dax episode in that. I guess that's kind of telling.

 

[Lieutenant Pika]

^gotta agree with some of that there.

Jadzia was okay, I guess. I preferred her to Ezri (whom I thought was a little slutty for first snogging Worf and then moving onto Bashir. Bashir only liked her because he had liked Jadzia prior to her even existing)

Jadzia got rather boring at times, especially when she had those things where she contacted her previous hosts. Trills are cool but she was boring in many ways.

 

[Too Much Fun]

6. Disgustingly, she had the gall to insult a bonafide real-life literary master, Victor Hugo, for allegedly writing 'one dimensional female characters' even though she herself, Jadzia, is one of the very worst and most one-dimensional female characters ever written.

This sounds like a criticism of Terry Farrell, not Jadzia Dax. A fictional character cannot insult a writer and then be called a hypocrite for what kind of a fictional character she was. Also, your list was long enough without this being added to it.

When I agreed with you about Bajorans in the other thread, I was wondering what it was I vaguely remember disagreeing with you passionately about in the past, and now I have my answer.

And here comes the big response from Jadzia fan #1...

Damn, posts like those just flabbergast me and make my heart sink. There's a temptation to respond to all this mean-spirited criticism with some of my own (i.e. how can you be so delusional?), but instead I'll just say it saddens me that you cannot get the immense enjoyment from this character that there is to be had (which I am proof of).

Humour is subjective. I always thought Jadzia's stories and jokes were cute and charming. I like how she had that nostalgic wistful old man quality while at the same time she was convincingly a confident, cheerful young woman. For me, she was like a ray of light into every episode/scene she appeared in. I have never been more appreciative for the presence of a character on Star Trek as much as I was with her. I would get pissed when she wasn't in episodes much or at all or had only a few lines. "Where's Jadzia?" I'd think to myself...even in episodes that were doing fine without her.

I don't care if her role was not as sharply defined as other characters and if the writers weren't always sure what to do with her. I don't care that Terry Farrell was the least experienced and least accomplished actor on the show, who had the fewest big dramatic scenes, and therefore the fewest opportunities to show any kind of range. I still think she had it in her, as evidenced by how episodes like "Re-Joined" affected me.

I loved the way she played the character, both when she was being serious and humourous. I thought her performance in "Re-Joined", as she's tortured by her desire to be with someone romantically when she cannot was heartbreakingly moving. I despise promiscuity as much as the next guy, but the fact that she was free-spirited sexually didn't matter to me. At least she never seriously hurt anyone with her sexual activity (there was just a little low-key jealousy from Worf, mostly for comedy).

I grew up watching TNG and got into DS9 reluctantly (really hated most of the first two seasons) and was very surprised to find it ended up being the show that featured my favourite Star Trek character of them all. Not bad for a "smug" character with very little purpose played by a severely limited actress. Oh, and I still maintain she's the most beautiful regular cast member ever on Star Trek. The fact that Jeri Ryan is more popular than her looks-wise in the fan community is baffling to me.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

I began the series liking Jadzia--she had that Spock-like air about her, and a very serene approach to things, but as things went on, I feel like she went more and more out of character to the point where I actually believe Curzon's personality took her over completely. The turning point in this regard was "Blood Oath," I think...once that happened, she was pretty much a female Curzon. Whatever personality there was before that was destroyed.

(Though I admit that aspect DOES add some depth to Ezri--does she fear the personalities within the symbiont because she remembers how Jadzia lost her battle to maintain her own individuality?)

In a lot of ways, when I went back and watched the first season, the episode "If Wishes Were Horses" caught my attention because we see an entirely different version of Dax in Bashir's dreams...one that aside from the submissiveness, actually seems a LOT like the later Jadzia. And when you see her together with the real thing, it's incredibly blatant how out of character the dream-Jadzia is. And I believe the same thing would happen if you put early-season Jadzia next to the version of her that was married to Worf. They would NOT look like the same character, not at all.

Which brings up one of Navaros' criticisms that I am also totally on board with. The promiscuity doesn't make her cool. And I also think Worf should never have married her, because if she was that unwilling to commit to the marriage, that was a warning sign right there. He would have done better with someone who had similar ideas about what marriage and faithfulness mean.

Now before anyone suggests this is a double-standard against women, let me tell you, I have MAJOR problems with Kirk for banging a woman at every port and not taking his sexuality seriously. I could NEVER work for a womanizer like that, both because I could not respect that person and because I could not trust that I would get an accurate and fair performance appraisal from someone who was constantly engaging in sexual harassment.

Even in a short time, Ezri was a character that seemed much more REAL to me...she lacked the arrogance and smugness, and it started to seem like maybe she had more respect for men than Jadzia did. When she started to realize her feelings towards Bashir, she wasn't cruel to him with those feelings the way Jadzia used to string him along. I got the feeling that she was actually genuine and that she saw him as a person, not a toy to be played with and thrown away. And to me, that's important--just as I do not want to be objectified as a woman, I find it disgusting to objectify men, too, and treat them as though they don't have hearts that can be broken if not treated with proper care. (I don't care how much men pretend things don't affect them...they DO have feelings and should be treated accordingly.)

 

[Pemmer Harge]

She's one of the weaker characters on DS9, but I still like her. We never learned that much about Jadzia the host and she only really got three good character episodes (Equilibrium, Facets and Rejoined) and all of those were in Seasons 3 and 4, but still, she has a certain charm and likeability in my opinion.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Not the way she was portrayed, no. Not sure if Terry Ferrell was part of the problem, but the writing definitely was. Here you have a character who is a blend of two sentient beings (assuming Dax is sentient - we never even had a confirmation of that!) - in which half of that character has the experience of several lifetimes to draw upon, the knowledge of its own immorality (barring accidents) and a social position among Trills that makes it a kind of aristocrat/rock star.

There's no excuse for that character being so boring and ordinary as Jadzia Dax turned out to be. She was just some snarky, smart chick, and there was no particular reason she needed to be a Trill for that. Written and acted correctly, Jadzia Dax should have been stealing scenes from everyone, including Garak.

3. She is inherently annoying due to her smug, pompous attitude.

I would have amped up the pompousness. Dax being an immortal rock star strongly implies that pompousness is a big part of its persona. I'd be pompous as all get-out!

Jadzia Dax should have been a superstar among the characters, knowing things and doing things that nobody else could. But she shouldn't have been juvenile or stupid about it. Having several lifetimes of experience would give her the wisdom to know when she's just being overbearing vs. needing to take over in a crisis. When she was pompous, it would actually be a situation in which she was correct and needed to elbow the young'uns out of the way.

The real challenge of having a character like that in the cast is: how do you stop them from imbalacing the ensemble cast? You can't have every episode be Jadzia Saves the Day.

The character needed some limitation to keep things in balance. Maybe the symbiote can only be awake a small portion of the day and the rest of the time, it's just Jadzia. Maybe the symbiosis didn't "click" properly and Jadzia is covering it up (perhaps without Dax's consent?) Maybe Dax is an unusually old symbiote and is suffering from the first stages of dementia or just an excess of previous lifetimes - there's only so much info any brain can hold. Presumably even symbiotes die from old age eventually.

 

[The Boy Who Cried Worf]

I liked Jadzia and I liked Terry Farrell, but the character did have some flaws. I think she was designed to wear too many hats and it made the character kind of annoying at times. She was alternatively DS9's Spock character, the sexy character, the smart-alec character, the wise old sage character. She could thus be shoe-horned into too many situations that maybe she didn't belong.

 

[Admiral Shran]

No.

I hate Jadzia Dax because:

1. She is horribly acted (one facial expression, monotone, wooden delivery of every line, etc.).

2. She is horribly written (not once did she ever say anything worth listening to; her 'jokes' were never funny; her "Curzon did this, Curzon did that statements" can cure insomnia because they are so unbelievably boring to listen to; every one of her lines was a waste of screen-time).

3. She is inherently annoying due to her smug, pompous attitude.

4. She serves no useful function on the show whatsoever; her character is therefore 100% irrelevant. That is why they didn't even bother to replace her with someone who performed the same function that she did (i.e. 'science officer'.) If she was not useless and irrelevant, they would have (yes, I know they cast Ezri, who also is useless and irrelevant to the show, but she did not replace Jadzia's function, because Jadzia had no function). It is very obvious that Jadzia was cast for 'eye-candy' purposes only (even though she doesn't look good anyway, yet inexplicably some people think she does )

5. Her rampant promiscuity does not make her 'cool' or whatever the writers were going for with that, rather it just makes her even worse and more of a joke as a character.

6. Disgustingly, she had the gall to insult a bonafide real-life literary master, Victor Hugo, for allegedly writing 'one dimensional female characters' even though she herself, Jadzia, is one of the very worst and most one-dimensional female characters ever written.

I agree with all that, especially numbers 3 and 5.

 

[JarodRussell]

Liked her, no criticism from me.

 

[Too Much Fun]

 

[Kelso]

YES! I love her.

 

[DevilEyes]

All right, I have just one question: WHAT rampant promiscuity?

No, actually, make that two questions. The second one is: when and how did Jadzia show she was "not willing to commit to a marriage"?

Unless this means that she should have time-travelled to the past and erased every relationship she had before she met Worf, so he wouldn't get jealous because she wasn't a virgin when she married him. What are those "similar ideas about what marriage and faithfulness"? Maybe she should have been jealous of Troi, or any other of his past lovers, like he got irrationally jealous about Captain Boday, or even some woman Curzon used to sleep with? Maybe you are right, maybe they really should not have gotten married, but because she was too good for Worf. Maybe he should have married someone with similar ideas, and then he'd have a wonderful life with a wife who would resent the fact that he had had a son with another woman, and would give him hell if he ever went anywhere near Enterprise.

BTW, I am no big fan of Kirk, but he never engaged in sexual harassment. (The Evil!Kirk from The Enemy Within doesn't count.)

 

[Joel_Kirk]

Jadzia was cool...and sexy....

 

[Jetfire]

Lawds YES!

 

[RandyS]

YES! I love her.

Same here, but I love Ezri too. Too bad they weren't in the show together. The Emporer's New Cloak would have been a great opportunity. The Mirror Jadzia could have come to the Federation universe instead of their Ezri, and taken Federation Ezri to the Mirror universe along with Quark and Rom.

 

[timelord1010]

I voted yes, I think Jadzia is/was a good character. Could have been written a little better but all in all a good character.

 

[SISKOTODAX]

Jadzia was cool. She had a good relationship with all the main cast members including Quark. Sisko is one of my favorite characters so I also liked her role as a confidant to him. On another board members listed the characters from favorite to least favorite. If Sisko was in the middle of the pack on someones list and the reoccuring characters(Weyoun, Dukat, Garak) were at the top, then the person almost always had Jadzia near the bottom and hated her with a passion. If Sisko was high on the list than usually Jadzia would at worst be in the middle of the pack. Go figure.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

All right, I have just one question: WHAT rampant promiscuity?

No, actually, make that two questions. The second one is: when and how did Jadzia show she was "not willing to commit to a marriage"?

She didn't want to actually go through with a marriage ceremony, nor did she show any respect for why Worf would feel as he did. It's perfectly understandable, based on that, why Worf would have reason to be concerned that Jadzia did not wish to be in an exclusive relationship--because if she did not wish to give her word, then what else could be holding her back?

Maybe you are right, maybe they really should not have gotten married, but because she was too good for Worf. Maybe he should have married someone with similar ideas, and then he'd have a wonderful life with a wife who would resent the fact that he had had a son with another woman, and would give him hell if he ever went anywhere near Enterprise.

Oh for crying out loud. Jadzia was NOT "too good" for Worf. And I didn't say Worf was "too good" for Jadzia.

The issue is that their values are fundamentally incompatible, and that's just asking for a relationship to go badly. That's not good for either of them. I think it would have made better sense for her as a character to be in an unmarried relationship, or an open marriage.

And Worf would have made better sense in a relationship with someone who had no reservations about giving their word (and keeping it) that she would take no other lovers. Jadzia's past wouldn't have been an issue to Worf, I don't think, if she hadn't balked at the idea of giving her word in marriage. Worf did have prior lovers, but was willing to commit himself fully to Jadzia with no others between them.

When she mocked that, I think it showed that the two of them were coming at the idea of sexuality from two entirely different perspectives. They were not good for EACH OTHER.