Is Pocket Books embarrassed about allowing Ishmael's crossover to slip through?

[Extrocomp]

Most of you already know that the novel Ishmael by Barbara Hambly is a crossover with the Western TV series Here Come the Brides, which was written without the permission of that show's copyright holders.

I decided to read Ishmael's section in the reference book Voyages of Imagination and was surprised that the book avoided mentioning Here Come the Brides and summarized the situation in only one sentence:

There was a show with Mark Lenard the following year, and Barbara was a fan of that, too: “Hence the rather obvious [influence upon] Ishmael.”

Here Come the Brides didn't just influence Ishmael, it was a full blown crossover with all the main characters of HCtB playing a major role. Is Pocket Books too embarrassed about allowing the crossover to slip through to even acknowledge its existence?

The German translation of Ishmael published by Heyne openly acknowledges Here Come the Brides:

›Ishmael‹ ist bis heute der einzige professionelle Roman, der Star Trek mit einer anderen TV-Serie kombiniert, nämlich mit der Western-Serie ›Here Come the Brides‹, die von 1968 bis 1970 im US-Fernsehen lief.
Diese Kombination an sich ist genaugenommen nicht so ausgefallen, da es bereits in den Fanzines der zahllosen Star Trek-Clubs ähnliche Kurzgeschichten gab, in denen die Enterprise-Crew beispielsweise mit ›Dr. Who‹ zusammentraf oder auch schon einmal in eine Episode von Rod Serlings ›The Twilight Zone‹ geriet.
Barbara Hambly erreicht mit ›Ishmael‹ aber viel mehr als nur eine Verbindung zweier Serien: Sie stellt ›Here Come the Brides‹ in einen unmittelbaren historischen Zusammenhang mit Star Trek, indem sie einen der Hauptcharaktere der Western-Serie — Aaron Stemple — zum Urahnen von Spocks Mutter Amanda (Stemple) Grayson macht.
Seinen besonderen Witz erhält diese Verbindung darüber hinaus aus einem anderen Aspekt: Aaron Stemple wurde in ›Here Come the Brides‹ von Mark Lenard gespielt, dem gleichen Schauspieler, der in den Star Trek-Filmen Spocks Vater Sarek — und damit Amanda Graysons Mann — darstellt.
Diese hintergründige Synthese macht ›Ishmael‹ zu einem der ungewöhnlichsten Star Trek-Romane; der besondere Reiz der Handlung bleibt jedoch Eingeweihten vorbehalten, denen die genannten Zusammenhänge bekannt sind. Für die USA bedeutet das angesichts der überwältigend großen Fan Gemeinde, daß sich Barbara Hamblys Absicht — sofern man sie nicht sofort herausgelesen hat — zumindest sehr schnell herumgesprochen haben dürfte.
Für Deutschland ist das schon wesentlich schwieriger nachzuvollziehen, zumal ›Here Come the Brides‹ nicht im deutschen Fernsehprogramm lief. Wer sich nicht so intensiv mit Star Trek auseinandergesetzt hat, wird an ›Ishmael‹ wohl Gefallen finden, der Sinn des Romans kann aber nicht vermittelt werden. Und gerade für diese Leser ist dieses Nachwort bestimmt: für alle, die sich einfach ›nur‹ unterhalten lassen möchten, ohne nach Hintergedanken forschen zu wollen.

Translation:

Ishmael is to date the only professional novel that combines Star Trek with another TV series, namely the Western series Here Come the Brides, which ran on US television from 1968 to 1970.
This combination itself is not exactly that unusual, as there were already similar short stories in the fanzines of the countless Star Trek clubs, in which the Enterprise crew met, for example, Dr. Who or even found themselves in an episode of Rod Serling's The Twilight Zone.
With Ishmael, Barbara Hambly achieves much more than just connecting two series: She places Here Come the Brides in a direct historical context with Star Trek by making one of the Western series' main characters—Aaron Stemple—the ancestor of Spock's mother, Amanda (Stemple) Grayson.
This connection also derives its special humor from another aspect: Aaron Stemple was played in Here Come the Brides by Mark Lenard, the same actor who plays Spock's father Sarek—and thus Amanda Grayson's husband—in the Star Trek films.
This subtle synthesis makes Ishmael one of the most unusual Star Trek novels; however, the plot's special appeal remains reserved for insiders who are familiar with the aforementioned connections. Given the overwhelmingly large fan base in the US, this means that Barbara Hambly's intention—if not immediately obvious—is likely to have spread very quickly.
For Germans, this is much more difficult to understand, especially since Here Come the Brides wasn't broadcast on German television. Those who aren't particularly familiar with Star Trek will probably enjoy Ishmael, but the novel's meaning won't be conveyed. And this afterword is intended precisely for these readers: for all those who 'just' want to be entertained without being tempted to explore hidden agendas.

 

[Therin of Andor]

The premise for "Ishmael" was written initially without permission, because it was assumed that Paramount had all of the rights anyway. But the editor supposedly had to scramble when the rights were found to be have reverted elsewhere, and she managed to secure the permission just before publication.

Not mentioning the actual name of the series in Voyages of Imagination may have been an approvals request from Paramount, to save muddying the waters after all that time. I am surprised that no mention of the "Here Come the Brides" creators were never acknowledged in reprints of the novel.

Barbara herself mentions feeling uncomfortable about recalling the details.

When asked how Ishmael saw the light of day, Barbara said, "When Pocket Books got the licensing to do Star Trek books, the first editor of the one, David Hartwell, phoned all his agent friends asking who among their clients had old Trek tales in their bottom drawers -- knowing we all did. I dug out Ismael (which I hadn't touched since I was seventeen and which was only about half written), and wrote Dave a letter." Reflecting further, she said, "I don't feel comfortable going into all the ins and out of the Ismael saga, but the manuscript was in the keeping of about five different editors. Among them they had the manuscript for about two years and I was really rather surprised when it actually saw print." ["Voyages of Imagination".]

 

[Stevil2001]

Though there is a lot to admire about Voyages of Imagination, one thing I find annoying about it is that if an author says nothing about a topic—or even a whole book—in an interview, Jeff Ayres does no research and cites no other sources on a topic. It stops the book from being the definitive reference it ought to have been.

 

[ryan123450]

Though there is a lot to admire about Voyages of Imagination, one thing I find annoying about it is that if an author says nothing about a topic—or even a whole book—in an interview, Jeff Ayres does no research and cites no other sources on a topic. It stops the book from being the definitive reference it ought to have been.

Would be great to see an update/expansion.

 

[Corran Horn]

Though there is a lot to admire about Voyages of Imagination, one thing I find annoying about it is that if an author says nothing about a topic—or even a whole book—in an interview, Jeff Ayres does no research and cites no other sources on a topic. It stops the book from being the definitive reference it ought to have been.

I can't speak to that but I do wish that J&G Reeves-Stevens had either been interviewed or had accepted the invitation to be. The "rumor" at the time on psiphi was that they'd assuredly be asked about their involvement in the Shatnerverse books and it'd come out that he barely had anything to do with them. (though Shatner is interviewed and describes the process within.)

Your mileage may vary on the believability on that.

 

[Christopher]

I can't speak to that but I do wish that J&G Reeves-Stevens had either been interviewed or had accepted the invitation to be. The "rumor" at the time on psiphi was that they'd assuredly be asked about their involvement in the Shatnerverse books and it'd come out that he barely had anything to do with them. (though Shatner is interviewed and describes the process within.

Your mileage may vary on the believability on that.

I believe they have spoken of it elsewhere, explaining that, basically, Shatner wrote the Kirk parts and they did the rest, and they went back and forth rewriting each other, with Shatner having the final say. A pretty typical collaborative process.

Now, on the TekWar novels, I've been told they were entirely Ron Goulart's work, but I'd imagine Shatner had final approval and at least some creative input where the main character's dialogue and actions were concerned.

 

[DarrenTR1970]

Though there is a lot to admire about Voyages of Imagination, one thing I find annoying about it is that if an author says nothing about a topic—or even a whole book—in an interview, Jeff Ayres does no research and cites no other sources on a topic. It stops the book from being the definitive reference it ought to have been.

I went to a discussion/signing with the author when the book came out - me and three other people - and since it was such an intimate setting, we were able to ask him lots of questions, and he said that when an author declined to be interviewed for the book, it was also under the understanding that he, Jeff Ayres, could do no more research on the book in question for legal reasons, and just leave it as a short summary.

 

[FredH]

Why should they be embarrassed at this point? Whether you like or hate the book, or approve of the crossover or not, it was forty years ago.

 

[Phoenix219]

i'd love to read the original fanzine fanfic crossovers lol.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I went to a discussion/signing with the author when the book came out - me and three other people - and since it was such an intimate setting, we were able to ask him lots of questions, and he said that when an author declined to be interviewed for the book, it was also under the understanding that he, Jeff Ayres, could do no more research on the book in question for legal reasons, and just leave it as a short summary.

Now I'm wondering what secret drama surrounded the Reeves-Stevens' Trek books...

 

[Christopher]

Now I'm wondering what secret drama surrounded the Reeves-Stevens' Trek books...

Why should there be any? Given how many of them there were, it seems likely that the collaborators got along well enough that they wanted to keep working together. And aside from the Kirk-specific parts, the Shatnerverse novels read emphatically like Reeves-Stevens novels, making heavy use of imaginative science and details of Trek continuity with which Shatner was self-admittedly unfamiliar, so it seems they weren't inhibited in expressing their own creative approach. It's also worth noting that of the various novel series credited to Shatner, the Shatnerverse ones are the only ones where his ghostwriters/collaborators are credited along with him (although the prose version of The Ashes of Eden only credits them on the title page rather than the cover).

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

. . . the prose version of The Ashes of Eden . . .

As opposed to . . . ?

 

[Jedi Marso]

IMHO, BH had the somewhat dubious honor of writing two of the very worst novels seen in two famous franchises: ST and SW. I always thought something was really weird about Ishmael: this thread finally explains it.

 

[Christopher]

As opposed to . . . ?

The graphic novel adaptation.

 

[FredH]

IMHO, BH had the somewhat dubious honor of writing two of the very worst novels seen in two famous franchises: ST and SW. I always thought something was really weird about Ishmael: this thread finally explains it.

At least at the time, I quite liked Children of the Jedi. Actual themes and symbolism in a SW novel!

 

[DarrenTR1970]

I will also add that Ayres said that a couple of the authors who declined to be interviewed for the book spoke off the record about the problems that they had with Gene Roddenberry's legal team (Richard Arnold) and the numerous changes they had to make to their books to make things fit Gene's vision and it soured them on working on further Star Trek novels.

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

The graphic novel adaptation.

Thanks. I wasn't aware that there was one, and I was thinking, Iambic pentameter? An unproduced screenplay??

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

IMHO, BH had the somewhat dubious honor of writing two of the very worst novels seen in two famous franchises: ST and SW. I always thought something was really weird about Ishmael: this thread finally explains it.

I liked Ishmael. A lot. And it's the reason why, when I had an opportunity to see HCTB in strip syndication, I did so, and enjoyed it.

No accounting for taste. Yours, mine, or anybody else's.

 

[Dukhat]

They should have been more embarrassed about signing off on the first edition of Killing Time. And the Errand of Vengeance trilogy.

 

[Christopher]

I will also add that Ayres said that a couple of the authors who declined to be interviewed for the book spoke off the record about the problems that they had with Gene Roddenberry's legal team (Richard Arnold) and the numerous changes they had to make to their books to make things fit Gene's vision and it soured them on working on further Star Trek novels.

Arnold wasn't a lawyer, was he? He was GR's personal assistant and "research consultant," but as far as I know, he was just a fan who got into GR's inner circle. GR's lawyer was Leonard Maizlish, perhaps the only person in GR's circle who's received more vitriol and condemnation over the years than Arnold (primarily from David Gerrold).