• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

News Introducing Fact Trek

Really, though, I'd say "grateful for the opportunity" is a better description of Bostwick, who came off like a jock who wasn't too comfortable with acting and was trying too hard with that constant forced grin. Davey's performance felt much more relaxed and workmanlike. He did have significantly more acting experience, about a decade's worth versus a few years for Bostwick.

I remember Bostwick saying in an interview that at the time he felt like a jock who wasn't comfortable with acting, having been a competitive martial artist for many years. Davey was also a jock, a professional boxer that had to quit because of concussions, and turned to acting to pay his bills. Perhaps he was a more relaxed and professional actor at the time. I'll have to find and watch the series again.

It is sad that Davey's boxing career has come back to haunt him, causing Alzheimer's like symptoms and diminishing his quality of life. I just checked and Wikipedia doesn't have this information, nor does IMDb.
 
It is sad that Davey's boxing career has come back to haunt him, causing Alzheimer's like symptoms and diminishing his quality of life.

Oh, that's terrible. I don't understand why we permit the existence of a sport that encourages deliberately inflicting concussions in one's opponents, when most other contact sports try hard to avoid that sort of thing. The classic rule in boxing is "No hitting below the belt," but I think they should add "No hitting above the shoulders." Or at least require head protection.
 
Oh, that's terrible. I don't understand why we permit the existence of a sport that encourages deliberately inflicting concussions in one's opponents, when most other contact sports try hard to avoid that sort of thing. The classic rule in boxing is "No hitting below the belt," but I think they should add "No hitting above the shoulders." Or at least require head protection.
That would dramatically change the sport.
 
That would dramatically change the sport.

That's the point. It's a sport that routinely cripples and kills its athletes, so it should change.

Besides, there was a time when football was played with hardly any padding. That sport changed. And it survived, and it got better. "Change" should not be used as a scare word.
 
Okay, now we're two topics over from the subject.

Here's a film about the Desilu facilities, and starting at 2:35 is a shot flying north along Gower, ending right as the camera gets directly alongside the long building containing Stages 7, 8, 9 & 10. You can see the numbers of 7 & 8, which later became the home to Mission: Impossible. 9 & 10 were later Star Trek.
To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.
 
BTW, we shared this over in the Star Trek Movies I-IX forum under the post about the WhatCulture article and video '20 Things You Didn't Know About Star Trek: The Motion Picture' . But we think it's important to own it and when we've made a mistake and why. So here's our #FactTrekCorrection piece titled Mea Culpa Culture (LINK).

It was a pleasure to read. I have become more and more alarmed at media/information literacy in the internet age, this is a great example of having standards and actually applying them.

Years ago people (including me) kept saying "You should write a book, Harvey!" I think "Fact Trek" is proving to be a smarter and more effective way of getting good information out there.
 
New stuff:

Our blog now features the article The POLICE STORY Story (link)...
Police Story & Star Trek Roddenberry-Created-By-Credits WM.jpg
...about that other Gene Roddenberry pilot shot on the heels of "Where No Man Has Gone Before" and featured two actors who'd end up on Star Trek when Police Story didn't get the NBC nod.

We also posted about...

The 1964 premier of The Man From U.N.C.L.E. and the "Friday Night Death Slot" (link)

The factual accuracy of Roddenberry's claim that CBS got free advice for Lost In Space from him whilst he unsuccessfully pitched Star Trek to them. (link)
 
Our blog now features the article The POLICE STORY Story (link)...

Thanks for that. I've been reading passing references to this pilot forever (I think it was mentioned as early as The Making of ST) but never gotten any details.

When you say "As far as we can tell, Roddenberry’s Police Story script was the last time he touched the subject in a contemporary setting," what about The Tribunes, which David Gerrold discusses in The World of Star Trek (p. 270-2 of the '73 Del Rey edition) as a pilot GR was developing alongside Genesis II, Questor, and Spectre? Gerrold describes it as a police show involving an experimental division using "the latest scientific and technological developments," less-lethal weapons, and more sophisticated and subtle problem-solving methods than just going in with guns blazing (and Roddenberry's critique of excessive force and police fascism is fascinating to read in the context of current events), but there's no mention of it being set in the future. Indeed, "the latest" suggests a present-day setting. I've always envisioned it as something similar to the Canadian Flashpoint and FOX's short-lived APB from a couple of years back. Maybe a future Fact Trek topic? I've always wanted to find out more about The Tribunes, but I've never come across any evidence of its existence beyond those couple of pages in TWoST.

Incidentally, it's fascinating how Roddenberry's November '65 letter to Sam Rolfe describes the Bruce Geller pilot for CBS that must be Mission: Impossible: "a sort of Ocean's Eleven idea with shades of Doc Savage and his group." I get the Ocean's Eleven comparison, but I'm not familiar enough with Doc Savage to see the connection.
 
Incidentally, it's fascinating how Roddenberry's November '65 letter to Sam Rolfe describes the Bruce Geller pilot for CBS that must be Mission: Impossible: "a sort of Ocean's Eleven idea with shades of Doc Savage and his group." I get the Ocean's Eleven comparison, but I'm not familiar enough with Doc Savage to see the connection.

Probably the connection lies in Doc having a set of companions who frequently accompany him on his adventures and who, like the M:I crew, each had significant focused skills which they brought to the table. One was a chemist, one was a lawyer, one was an engineer, etc.
 
Who owns the rights to this production? Unless there is some legal involved, one would think it would have received some sort of video release (however bare bones), considering the Rodenberry-Kelly-Whitney presence.
 
Who owns the rights to this production? Unless there is some legal involved, one would think it would have received some sort of video release (however bare bones), considering the Rodenberry-Kelly-Whitney presence.

It was a Desilu production, so I'd imagine the rights went to Paramount/CBS. But does the pilot film even still exist?

By the way, I just looked it up on IMDb for the company credits, and it's entered there as a 2-hour movie. Somebody ought to fix that.
 
It was a Desilu production, so I'd imagine the rights went to Paramount/CBS. But does the pilot film even still exist?
Where did the CBS show The Greatest Shows You Never Saw get that footage? Unless it was sourced from a commercial, coming attractions segment etc. Has anyone taken the time to search for a print?
 
Where did the CBS show The Greatest Shows You Never Saw get that footage?

That special aired more than 24 years ago, and the footage they had wasn't in great shape even then. A lot could've happened in the interim.

The cast list to that special is interesting:

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0381227/fullcredits?ref_=tt_cl_sm#cast

It mentions Jessica Walter as Morgan LeFay, so it must've included the '70s Dr. Strange pilot movie. There was also an early Munsters pilot with some different cast members, apparently.
 
That special aired more than 24 years ago, and the footage they had wasn't in great shape even then. A lot could've happened in the interim.

The cast list to that special is interesting:

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0381227/fullcredits?ref_=tt_cl_sm#cast

It mentions Jessica Walter as Morgan LeFay, so it must've included the '70s Dr. Strange pilot movie. There was also an early Munsters pilot with some different cast members, apparently.

One would hope that in 1996 there would have been enough Trek-consciousness to keep something like this preserved.

The Munsters pilot features Joan Marshall (Areel Shaw from "Court Martial") as Phoebe (not Lilly) Munster (there were also short 'pilots' with Yvonne DeCarlo and Butch Patrick as well).
To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.
 
That special aired more than 24 years ago, and the footage they had wasn't in great shape even then. A lot could've happened in the interim.

The cast list to that special is interesting:

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0381227/fullcredits?ref_=tt_cl_sm#cast

It mentions Jessica Walter as Morgan LeFay, so it must've included the '70s Dr. Strange pilot movie. There was also an early Munsters pilot with some different cast members, apparently.
We included the link to the entire program in our blog post's See also section...

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.
The Greatest Shows You Never Saw (1996) Full program on YouTube (as of this posting). Police Story appears at 19:10 (link).​
 
When you say "As far as we can tell, Roddenberry’s Police Story script was the last time he touched the subject in a contemporary setting," what about The Tribunes, which David Gerrold discusses in The World of Star Trek (p. 270-2 of the '73 Del Rey edition) as a pilot GR was developing alongside Genesis II, Questor, and Spectre?

I haven’t read “The Tribunes” but The Man Who Created Star Trek: Gene Roddenberry by James Van Hise calls it a “futuristic cop show.” What I’ve read about the concept—which was developed for NBC, but not produced—suggests it was not set in the present.

But, again, this is coming from the Van Hise book, I haven’t seen a copy of any story material.

The David Alexander biography mentions it once as a failed pilot written with Sam Peeples. The Joel Engel biography doesn't mention it at all. Do any of the latest doorstops by he who shall not be named quote from any story material in the private Roddenberry papers?
 
I haven’t read “The Tribunes” but The Man Who Created Star Trek: Gene Roddenberry by James Van Hise calls it a “futuristic cop show.” What I’ve read about the concept—which was developed for NBC, but not produced—suggests it was not set in the present.

"Futuristic" is ambiguous. It can mean something suggestive of the future, ahead of its time, forward-looking, rather than actually being in the future. And a lot of "futuristic" sci-fi posits fancifully advanced tech in a present-day setting, e.g. Search, the bionic shows, or Knight Rider.


Okay, I found excerpts from the Van Hise book on the Internet Archive. It says on pp. 67-8:

After several years of trying, in 1977 he realized that TRIBUNES, a futuristic cop show, would never go beyond the development stage.

He said, "The police series was intended to have been an effect [attempt?] on my part to show police work as it should be done. It would have shown policemen having to have six years of college minimum, instead of the present academy, and also using the proper scientific method in solving cases. I would have liked to have done it. I think it's too late to do it now because there's already like thirty police shows on and I just don't want to be one of the thirty."
...
The series would have dealt with an experimental police division of 40 to 50 men and women armed with the latest scientific and technological developments. The police no longer carried guns but weapons which splashed high-intensity light temporarily blinding a suspect or spraying nonlethal chemicals.

They are also magistrates, can take testimony, settle cases on the spot, issue subpoenas and the like.

So there are several things there that make me think it was meant to be a present-day or at best near-future series:

One, it was supposed to be an experimental division, something beyond the state of the art for its time. So policing overall is still the same as in real life. Why bother setting it in the future, then, unless it's the very near future?

Two, it used "the latest" science and tech, a phrase suggesting a contemporary setting.

Three, it used basic less-lethal restraint methods like bright lights or chemical sprays, stuff within the realm of current possibility in the '70s, rather than something more sci-fi like phasers on stun. If that was "the latest," then it can't have been very far ahead.

And four, Roddenberry gave up on it because he felt it was too much like all the other cop shows on the air, suggesting that aside from the tech and the methods, the overall feel wouldn't have been that different from a more mundane cop show.
 
It sounded like CSI as I read the precis. This doesn't answer your question, I know.

I know this is heresy, b/c GR is now the antichrist to some people, but some of his other concepts sound decent, like this one. A different vision of policing from what we had then, and from the paramilitary orgs we have ended up with after the surplus giveaways from our forever wars.
 
It sounded like CSI as I read the precis. This doesn't answer your question, I know.

A little CSI, a fair amount of Flashpoint, a great deal of APB. Even a bit of Judge Dredd, with the idea of the cops being magistrates themselves. That part makes me uncomfortable, giving too much unilateral power to the police, when what they need are solid checks and balances to stem abuses. But then, presumably this was ex-cop Roddenberry's fantasy of how police "should" be -- with some good aspects, like replacing the shoot-first mentality with more subtle methods of detection and de-escalation, but some self-indulgence as well.


I know this is heresy, b/c GR is now the antichrist to some people, but some of his other concepts sound decent, like this one. A different vision of policing from what we had then, and from the paramilitary orgs we have ended up with after the surplus giveaways from our forever wars.

It's fascinating what Roddenberry says about it in The World of Star Trek (p. 271-2) and how timely it is today:

"...Law enforcement is an extraordinarily important thing in our society, because law enforcement can often determine the nature of a society more than a constitution. You can have a constitution, but if your police act like Gestapo and have Gestapo powers, you're going to have a fascist civilization. We believe that there's more to police work than just repression.

"Police should be for the people, they should have options beyond just a gun, to kill or not to kill and things like that. It's really in a way a kind of science fiction format: if there was some way to get our best people, the best training (especially psychiatry and psychology) and the services of our vast technology into our police work, what would we have then?

"Our hope is that some of these ideas will filter down into actual police work. We hope that our ideas might be able to lead the way."


Incidentally, that "in a way a kind of science fiction format" is more evidence that it was a present-day show with a lightly speculative element.
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top