Is it some of the energy of phasers, photon torpedos or other weapons that got through the shields or is it sort of an overheating effect in the shield generators that causes problems in the systems of a ship?
In ship combat, what causes the damage on shielded ships?
- Thread starter Unimatrix Q
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I'd say surges in the shield grid are the primary source. Caused by high-yield weapons, these would damage adjacent systems and of course ultimately bring the shields themselves down.
Trek shields seem to be pretty good at protecting against a wide range of dangers, to the extent that when they are ineffective it is usually a plot point. Generations and the Dominion's weapons on DS9 come to mind.
Trek shields seem to be pretty good at protecting against a wide range of dangers, to the extent that when they are ineffective it is usually a plot point. Generations and the Dominion's weapons on DS9 come to mind.
If maintaining shields is a constant drain on capacitors, and forces applied against the shields causes the capacitors to output more energy to maintain the shield integrity, then it makes sense that extreme impacts could cause capacitors to fail/overheat/explode.
I would then question however why there are not safeguards in place to limit the energy output to within safe tollerances. Unless popping capacitors is the lesser of two evils compared to the shields failing
I would then question however why there are not safeguards in place to limit the energy output to within safe tollerances. Unless popping capacitors is the lesser of two evils compared to the shields failing
Maybe there are large "Fuses" like in modern Day Surge Protectors
When they say "shields at 80 percent" or whatever number, I always assume that refers to the shields integrity; i.e. the shields have become 20% "porous" allowing enemy fire to "bleed through" the holes in the shield and impact the hull. I would say that about half the damage is localized, while the rest of the damage is spread out.
But wouldn't the "bleed through" damage be more severe in most cases. In WoK and TUC for example the weapons Khan and the Klingons used left traces on the hull and caused big explosions while in most 24th century Trek the only thing we see happening is some consoles that are imploding.
And is some of the spread out damage also caused directly by the weapons or just happening because the ship systems are overworking to compensate the attacks?
The Shield % is based on energy capacity of the shield relative to it being full.
Nothing bleeds through unless plot demands it or the shields goes down.
Another reason for Trek to have Multi-Layer Shields / Defense for each Starship.
Nothing bleeds through unless plot demands it or the shields goes down.
Another reason for Trek to have Multi-Layer Shields / Defense for each Starship.
Exploding a console costs far less than damaging a ship model. And its reasonable to conclude that in case of severe damage, overloading systems can cause further problems. But in pretty much every other possible scenario, cascading damage should not be possible.
Case in point; 20 years ago i was at home, eating dinner with my parents and family, in the middle of a thunderstorm. House got hit by lightning (which as you know, is 10 times hotter than the surface of the sun; but luckily a strike lasts for a fraction of a second).
The alarm went haywire, the TV got fried - but everything else was fine, since a little known piece of advanced technology called a Circuit Breaker cut power to other nearby systems when it overloaded, thereby limiting collateral damage to an easily reset fuse.
My headcanon is that damage is caused by enemy fire penetrating the shield.
Since the shields are in effect a combination of "screening" EM and gravimetric fields, their effectiveness would seem to be based upon how much energy is being utilized to "raise" or "reinforce" the shield and also how much energy they are dealing with. In first season of TOS, radiation of various types from emissions by glowing cubes (The Corbomite Maneuver) and from explosions (Balance of Terror) by far seem to be the greatest hazard posed to the ship and crew (with circuit burn-outs being a secondary concern), even with shields. In the second season of TOS the Planet Killer is said by Washburn to have "crashed through the deflectors and knocked out the generators.." which also would seem to indicate there is a limit to which the shield will function before it fails completely, and in this particular case damaged or destroyed the deflector shield generator due to the overload. Overloads in electrical systems can be quite spectacular (as anyone who has witnessed a transformer make like a firecracker can attest) and as Jedman67 states, one would hope UESPA and Starfleet would have properly installed some kind of circuit breakers to limit collateral damage throughout the vessel. Given that, you could infer it could be both the energy from the attack or event itself, acting upon the vessel (be it EM radiation, thermal effects, or the like), and from reciprocal damage from system overloads if the attack was truly prodigious. Likewise, by the time of TNG these same kinds of problems still present themselves, at least as evidenced in the episode, "The Survivors" where the Enterprise gets soundly smacked around by the faux Husnock attack vessel.
WORF: Shields are down. Captain, they hit us with four hundred gigawatts of particle energy.
PICARD: Damage?
WORF: Superficial, but I'm having trouble reassembling the shields. (another hit) Shields down. There is thermal damage to the hull.
PICARD: Damage?
WORF: Superficial, but I'm having trouble reassembling the shields. (another hit) Shields down. There is thermal damage to the hull.
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In TWOK the hull damage is from direct hits from the weapons as the shields were down in all cases. In the opening salvo, we know Khan wanted Kirk alive so I assume that they were targeted, low-power shots. Later on when Kirk's damaged Enterprise returns fire, the damage inflicted is similar (not substantially weaker appearing than Khan's first attack). If they were full power strikes with the shields down, the movie would have been over pretty quick.
In TUC, there definitely is some bleed-through of energy getting past the shields with each torpedo hit on the Enterprise. What is interesting is that no matter what the deflector energy level was the bleed-through was always the same. Only when the shields were "failing" ("negative") are when the torpedo punched through the ship.
It doesn't appear that the amount of bleed-through depended on the energy level of the shields and is more specific to the weapon itself, IMHO.
In TOS we know that the shields can be attacked in whole or damaged individually. The number 4 shield seemed to be a favorite target in "Journey to Babel" and "Elaan of Troyius". In JTB, a weakened number 4 shield was reinforced with additional power. In EOT, the number 4 shield collapsed but presumably came back on when the lost warp power was applied to the shields.
So, if the damaged individual shields that buckled/collapsed/went down could be brought back on again with the application of more power then it could be that a ship's shields (at least in TOS) is dependent on how much power is available and that the power available depletes during combat, even if the power systems are undamaged. Weapons that are particularly powerful (as plot demands) can cause internal damage with the shields up ("Doomsday Machine", "Errand of Mercy") while some do not ("A Taste of Armageddon", "Return of the Archons").
TNG and onwards is different of course and YMMV.
My main ponderance about shields being numbered... are numbered shields in correspondence to quadrants/facets of the ship, or is it more like layers of an onion? That is, is "number four shield" the, for sake of argument, dorsal shield, or the outermost layer? In either case, are there separate generators for each shield? (I would guess yes.)
I seem to recall "TMoST" saying that there were multiple shields pointed in various directions that overlapped a bit, but I'm not sure how accurate this recollection is.
I seem to recall "TMoST" saying that there were multiple shields pointed in various directions that overlapped a bit, but I'm not sure how accurate this recollection is.
You've got to remember that Star Trek has two major types of shields that they have shown on screen.
Deflector based shields which create a literal Ovoid Bubble.
And Skin/Surface/Hull mounted Network Grid type that literally creates a thin layer over the top of the hull.
Then there is now Ablative Armor that you can mount on top of the hull to physically protect.
Don't forget that in Enterprise, they have Polarized Armor Plating.
And Voyager has introduced "Ablative Hull Armor" Generator.
Don't forget Deflector based shields are based on facets of said shields like Fore, Aft, Dorsal, Ventral, Port, Starboard shield sections.
While Physical Ablative armor is based on section of the hull that is damaged.
Deflector based shields which create a literal Ovoid Bubble.
And Skin/Surface/Hull mounted Network Grid type that literally creates a thin layer over the top of the hull.
Then there is now Ablative Armor that you can mount on top of the hull to physically protect.
Don't forget that in Enterprise, they have Polarized Armor Plating.
And Voyager has introduced "Ablative Hull Armor" Generator.
Don't forget Deflector based shields are based on facets of said shields like Fore, Aft, Dorsal, Ventral, Port, Starboard shield sections.
While Physical Ablative armor is based on section of the hull that is damaged.
In "Elaan of Troyius", "forward shields" were identified as well as orders given for turning the ship to try to protect the number 4 shield from further attack so they are directional. As to which direction corresponds to which number - there isn't enough firm information other than number 4 might be the rear shield.
Interestingly, the crew also identified damage by shield numbers on the Klingon ship as well.
But I think damage is more like energy depletion. Even when a shield fails from enemy fire it seems like the fix is just to add power back into it.
Interestingly, the crew also identified damage by shield numbers on the Klingon ship as well.
But I think damage is more like energy depletion. Even when a shield fails from enemy fire it seems like the fix is just to add power back into it.
Look at all the exploding consoles. Fuses, along with seat belts, are lost technologies in Trek's era.
I'm not sure I would want fuses on a starship. In your house, it's a minor inconvenience to swap out a fuse to turn power back on to a room. On a starship, it could be more fatal for the crew than just having a console blow out, killing one person. If a fuse or breaker tripped that shut down life support, everyone is dead. If a shield fuse goes out in the middle of battle, a kill shot hits the bridge, everyone is dead.
In America it's it's nearly unknown for "fuses" in homes not to be switches. The only place I've seen changeable fuses is in cars.
Not sure why there can't be backups, redundant circuitry and advanced-computer controlled electrical routing.
Oh right, TV Drama
In "By Any Other Name" the ship switched to emergency life support and other back up systems.
But the "control circuits" on the Enterprise often didn't have backups or if they did they took a dramatic amount of time to re-route
But the "control circuits" on the Enterprise often didn't have backups or if they did they took a dramatic amount of time to re-route
At a former job we had a walk-in freezer for some of the packages. Once while in there the local power failed and the stand-by kicked in. The lights flickered once, that was it.
The same reason that people's phones always "ring" on TV and in movies, instead of vibe.
A local power failure is no worse than someone turning off the main power switch to your building to test your stand-by power unit. You should instead throw in an explosion that tears up all the lines connecting to the freezer. A little more apple to apple comparison
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