How strong is a female Vulcan?
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Stronger than me, I'd guess.
Isn't that more about endurance than strength? I've seen plenty of female joggers that could easily out-last me, because I'm not a jogger. That doesn't mean they'd beat me in arm wrestling.
Kasidy stated that Vulcans have 3X the strength of humans (and they're fast, too!).
Strength comes in varieties, too. And muscles take exercise in order to produce maximal strength - special exercise for special types of strength. So a Vulcan of either gender might be born with the potential to be three times stronger than a human, but Archer might be closer to his 100% than T'Pol is to hers, explaining why T'Pol does poorly in wrestling (say, against Klingons) while Archer fares relatively well (again against Klingons).
As for Kasidy, she might have been talking about males even though she didn't specify this. After all, she was commenting on the specific incident of Solok vs. Ben Sisko. So T'Pol's poorish showing might be explained by sexual dimorphism, too.
Timo Saloniemi
As for Kasidy, she might have been talking about males even though she didn't specify this. After all, she was commenting on the specific incident of Solok vs. Ben Sisko. So T'Pol's poorish showing might be explained by sexual dimorphism, too.
Timo Saloniemi
She was once teaching villagers Vulcan martial arts. Or, in theory she was, all she really taught them was, if anyone attacks you, duck backward twice then roll away.
There's no indication in the show that Vulcan women are less strong than Vulcan men, other than what's implied by their physical size. But proportionally still that would make them much stronger than the average human.
There's no indication in the show that Vulcan women are less strong than Vulcan men, other than what's implied by their physical size. But proportionally still that would make them much stronger than the average human.
Does physical strength of a Vulcan female really matter when she can likely make suggestive advances towards an aggressor and than render them unconscious with a VNP or get them to do her bidding with a mind meld?
You have to remember that the Vulcan atmosphere is described as thin. A vulcan engaging in aerobic exercise in Earth normal atmosphere will have an advantage, since for them it actually is oxygen rich environment. And lot cooler too.
What does "suggestive advances" have to do with the topic?
A Vulcan has three times the strength of a human, seeing as how both males and females are raised on the same high gravity planet then their strength would be equal to one another. Some may be stronger, by carrying out more thorough fitness regimes.
I don't see anything in Trek that suggests Vulcan females are any weaker.
I don't see anything in Trek that suggests Vulcan females are any weaker.
I still think Kasidy's statement about Vulcans' strength still holds pretty well. First because it's canon, not simply conjecture, and second because it can be accepted at face value. Sisko quickly agreed to the sentiment, who wrestled a Vulcan and then spent the next 20 years reading about how Vulcans were superior to humans. He himself also told the Niners earlier in the episode that Vulcans were " ...stronger and faster than any one of us - except for Worf."
Using this as a basis, I'm going to speculate that a Vulcan to a human is roughly the equivalent of an adult human of say 25 years old to your average pre-pubescent 9-10 year old. (yes there is probably a wide margin of error here, but generally speaking I can see it taking three nine year olds to take down a reasonably fit young person.) Put that same nine-year old against a young woman of the same age and fitness level and the young woman would still have the advantage in both strength and speed. It may take only two nine year olds of decent strength, (though nothing in canon says that the women are any weaker) but regardless, she would still have the advantage.
Using this as a basis, I'm going to speculate that a Vulcan to a human is roughly the equivalent of an adult human of say 25 years old to your average pre-pubescent 9-10 year old. (yes there is probably a wide margin of error here, but generally speaking I can see it taking three nine year olds to take down a reasonably fit young person.) Put that same nine-year old against a young woman of the same age and fitness level and the young woman would still have the advantage in both strength and speed. It may take only two nine year olds of decent strength, (though nothing in canon says that the women are any weaker) but regardless, she would still have the advantage.
...I guess the unavoidable lemma to all this is the relative strength of Vulcans vs. Klingons.
We have never seen Worf display strength beyond that of humans. To the contrary, Riker seems to outdo Worf in certain tasks of lifting and twisting, and physically fights Worf well in "Where Silence Has Lease".
Perhaps Worf doesn't know how to exercise his Klingon musculature properly and therefore is less strong than a Klingon growing in a Klingon culture? But Worf does well against fellow Klingons in bat'leth fighting which involves a lot of arm muscle use. OTOH, he barely manages against Jadzia Dax (unless that's just an act). So it seems that any muscle strength advantage Klingons might hold over humans is minimal, and Vulcans (and Romulans!) would still throw Worf around like a sack of potatoes.
Female Klingons are seen fighting with swords in unisex ritual games (and supposedly with anything from furniture to claws and teeth in sexual games), but whether there is sexual dimorphism there in "reality", we don't know. It doesn't look as if any of the female Klingon characters would be weaker than the corresponding males of the episodes, regardless of species.
Timo Saloniemi
We have never seen Worf display strength beyond that of humans. To the contrary, Riker seems to outdo Worf in certain tasks of lifting and twisting, and physically fights Worf well in "Where Silence Has Lease".
Perhaps Worf doesn't know how to exercise his Klingon musculature properly and therefore is less strong than a Klingon growing in a Klingon culture? But Worf does well against fellow Klingons in bat'leth fighting which involves a lot of arm muscle use. OTOH, he barely manages against Jadzia Dax (unless that's just an act). So it seems that any muscle strength advantage Klingons might hold over humans is minimal, and Vulcans (and Romulans!) would still throw Worf around like a sack of potatoes.
Female Klingons are seen fighting with swords in unisex ritual games (and supposedly with anything from furniture to claws and teeth in sexual games), but whether there is sexual dimorphism there in "reality", we don't know. It doesn't look as if any of the female Klingon characters would be weaker than the corresponding males of the episodes, regardless of species.
Timo Saloniemi
Nothing in and of itself. Much has been discussed about strength in a physical context, but a mental context exists too. Enterprise established that Vulcan Females have an acute sense of smell. So does that factor into the strength? It certainly is a comparative advantage under the right conditions. I used the terminology to describe a strategy or tactic, which is the real focus, in terms of an aggressor. Vulcans, who have devised the Vulcan Neck Pinch to minimize violence, would surely see the logic in using comparative advantages afforded to them by their genders. So don't focus too much on what was apparently a poor choice of words of my part, but rather on a more acute interpretation of the OP's question. The simplest answer, which has already been given, is that it will vary from individual to individual, the conditions of a given environment etc...
Here's the thing about Klingon strength though, the only human characters shown to be able to go hand to hand with a Klingon are main characters.
You know how in a recently ended show I won't name for spoilery reasons the main characters were magically prevented from being killed except by each other and when they are no longer needed? Well that's just an in universe explanation for the rules that apply to all main characters of all television shows. So Sisko and Riker can go hand to hand with a Klingon because the great will of the universe intervenes on their behalf. Average security officer would get demolished in hand to hand combat with a Klingon.
I think it's reasonable to think that within a single race, strength is proportional to body size.
You know how in a recently ended show I won't name for spoilery reasons the main characters were magically prevented from being killed except by each other and when they are no longer needed? Well that's just an in universe explanation for the rules that apply to all main characters of all television shows. So Sisko and Riker can go hand to hand with a Klingon because the great will of the universe intervenes on their behalf. Average security officer would get demolished in hand to hand combat with a Klingon.
I think it's reasonable to think that within a single race, strength is proportional to body size.
Yet even this does not happen. The average security officer is gunned down by a Klingon; wrestling matches or swordfights demonstrate no advantage for Klingons whatsoever, regardless of whether the combatants on either side are heroes, villains or mere sidekicks.
That is, save for DS9 "Blood Oath", where the Albino is guarded by people who look more or less like humans, but the Klingon geezers, Worf and Dax all easily defeat them in sword-vs-bayonet fighting. Only the Albino (who may or may not be a Klingon) himself has the strength to block bat'leth swings.
Timo Saloniemi
If they did then why would they be a security guard? Even the most 'average' would need extensive training and skill in hand-to-hand.
Besides Klingons have an over-inflated opinion of their abilities and prowess.
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