Gul Dukat, one of the most three dimensional villains TV has ever seen

[Armus]

Dukat was evil, like most Cardassians because he never repented from the occupation. That should have been clearly established with his character but it was rather murky. The Cardassians were callous and arrogant but they were an extemely efficient and patriotic people. Perhaps Dukat was more egotistical and vain than most but to make him the biggest deluded egotist in the galaxy and then make him the Bajoran antichrist was outlandish and less interesting than other routes the producers could have taken. The writers were coming up with stuff as they went along and they had to justify the change in character. Fortunately Marc Alaimo could play most anything they came up with.

 

[Armus]

Personally, my favorite ending for Dukat would have been as follows: He gets Damar's redemption arc, only on the inside, nothing ever really changes in him. He's still the same image-obsessed egomanic he always was, just that his inflated sense of self-worth accidentally caused him to drift in the right direction. He ends the series dead and considered a hero by the people of Cardassia, with history very quickly papering over the true complexity of his character.

Why would this be awesome? Because it would get to the heart of how false narratives sometimes develop in history - how in the real world, people don't always get their comeuppance, and the truth doesn't always shine through. It would be a gloriously messy ending. Particularly if Garak was forced to embrace the legacy of Dukat (who, remember, hated him) in order to have his desired role in the post-Dominion reconstruction of Cardassia.

That would have been less outlandish than making him the Bajoran antichrist.

 

[Lynx]

Cullah was just a garden variety bully, Dukat was something different, something a bit more sinister.

I like them both.

As for Cardassians in common, they were without doubt the best villains ever in Star Trek.

 

[Prax]

Dukhat was very polite man, and a good conversationalist. Who are we to say Cardassian values are wrong?

 

[GulBahana]

I'm in a Facebook group that is run by women who are VERY into Marc/Dukat. It seems they are attracted to both of them. They post drawings of a half naked Dukat.

 

[Kor]

Dukhat was very polite man, and a good conversationalist. Who are we to say Cardassian values are wrong?

We would need to separate their cultural values (which we don't really see much of) and look at them separately from the militarism and control that had been dictated by their government for so long.

Kor

 

[XCV330]

Dukhat was very polite man, and a good conversationalist. Who are we to say Cardassian values are wrong?

I acturally see Cardassian culture to a point we are heading, at least in America. The stratefication of society and a sort of extreme social code more complicated than anything the victorians had. A near-religious adoration of the industrial military complex to fill a gap left as traditional religions wither and fail. Justice is almost always predetermined now unless one has truly great financial reserves, and those tend to be more and more along oligarichial lines, which coincides with the gradual death of democracy. We are becoming Cardassians. Just dont have the spoon holders on our heads, yet.

 

[Armus]

I'm in a Facebook group that is run by women who are VERY into Marc/Dukat. It seems they are attracted to both of them. They post drawings of a half naked Dukat.

I'm sure Marc Alaimo would be delighted.

 

[HelenofBorg]

I'm in a Facebook group that is run by women who are VERY into Marc/Dukat. It seems they are attracted to both of them. They post drawings of a half naked Dukat.

I can see them being drawn to the actor, but the character he played was repulsive, and I'm not talking about his looks. True, Dukat was extremely charismatic, but beyond that superficial charm what lies beneath isn't nice.

 

[Tosk]

And some people marry jailed serial killers. It takes all types, I suppose.

 

[diankra]

It's a reference to the events during and leading up to 'what you leave behind'. Dukat and Winn worked together to release the Pah-wraiths from their prison in the fire caves. Dukat was by this point an unhinged psychopath, and winn was power hungry. What a team.

Isn't the thing about Wynn that she's a religious fanatic who feels slighted when her gods ignore her and talk with others?

 

[Prax]

She's nominally religious, and an ambitious politician. She's jealous of Sisko, an outsider, that the prophets talked to him and not her, the leader of Bajor.

Of course, they never really explored what the Bajoran religion actually was. There doesn't seem to be a Bajoran "Sermon on the mount" or "Do unto others...," or even a Bajoran 10 commandments. It's just "Trust in the prophets"
So maybe the whole religion is a nominal one, or maybe it isn't a religion.

 

[jmidnight_99]

Isn't the thing about Wynn that she's a religious fanatic who feels slighted when her gods ignore her and talk with others?

Her gods ignored her because they knew what she would do (remembering the prophets were non-linear). Her faith was overshadowed by her eventual complete lust for power.

Because someone devotes themselves to their faith does not make them a "religious fanatic".

 

[Tosk]

I'd be cautious about claiming that the Prophets specifically ignored Winn because they knew what she would do...because then you get into territory like, "If they knew what she would do if they ignored her, why didn't they just say hello and avoid the whole Emissary's-Fiery-Trial in the first place?"

 

[PSGarak]

I'd be cautious about claiming that the Prophets specifically ignored Winn because they knew what she would do...because then you get into territory like, "If they knew what she would do if they ignored her, why didn't they just say hello and avoid the whole Emissary's-Fiery-Trial in the first place?"

Also, they demonstrated a lack of understanding about a lot of things, like why they should care about certain events versus others, as demonstrated by their conversations with Sisko. So I doubt it was knowledge of what Winn would do that prevented them from speaking with her.

 

[Kor]

Isn't the thing about Wynn that she's a religious fanatic who feels slighted when her gods ignore her and talk with others?

She's nominally religious, and an ambitious politician. She's jealous of Sisko, an outsider, that the prophets talked to him and not her, the leader of Bajor.

Of course, they never really explored what the Bajoran religion actually was. There doesn't seem to be a Bajoran "Sermon on the mount" or "Do unto others...," or even a Bajoran 10 commandments. It's just "Trust in the prophets"
So maybe the whole religion is a nominal one, or maybe it isn't a religion.

Yeah, in "The Reckoning," she told Sisko that the prophets had never spoken to her. And her line in "Strange Bedfellows" was quite telling: "They've never spoken to me. Never offered me guidance. Never trusted me with the fruits of their wisdom. And now, I'm supposed to step down as Kai in order to be blessed by them? No. I have worked too hard, waited too long to give it all up now." (as transcribed at chakoteya.net) How can she think she's a fitting spiritual leader for a whole system of spirituality that she doesn't actually feel any personal spiritual connection with? She actually believed in the prophets, so maybe she thought they would finally acknowledge her existence if she clawed her way to the top.

Kor

 

[HelenofBorg]

Isn't the thing about Wynn that she's a religious fanatic who feels slighted when her gods ignore her and talk with others?

She started off that way yes, but she grew extremely jealous of Siskos role as the Emissary. Most of her religious 'devotion' was in fact political posturing.

 

[PSGarak]

She started off that way yes, but she grew extremely jealous of Siskos role as the Emissary. Most of her religious 'devotion' was in fact political posturing.

She also felt slighted by her own people. That conversation she had with Kira about being looked down on and discounted because she wasn't a resistance fighter I felt was very telling. She had a massive chip on her shoulder well before she rose to a position of power, and I feel she chose religion as that path in part because renown in the resistance was closed off to her.

 

[at Quark's]

Of course, they never really explored what the Bajoran religion actually was. There doesn't seem to be a Bajoran "Sermon on the mount" or "Do unto others...," or even a Bajoran 10 commandments. It's just "Trust in the prophets"
So maybe the whole religion is a nominal one, or maybe it isn't a religion.

Probably for the best. Anything more specific than "trust in the Prophets" or generalities as "love is better than hate" would have opened a can of worms, especially as this religion has been established as at least partly "true", to the extent that those Prophets actually exist and do guide their Emissary ... so you wouldn't want it to start resembling anything that could pass as an actual religion too much.

 

[Prax]

If they did compare to an actual religion, they would be like those "prophecy buffs" that are all about the sensational stuff and trying to predict the future