Gonna bust my ENT cherry soon.
- Thread starter Rabittooth
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Sit down with TNG and watch TATV after Pegasus, then watch Enterprise without it. Think of the finale as a TNG episode in which the holodeck turned the events chronicled into a "choose your adventure kind of a thing"--the end result may be the same, but the events couldn't possible have happened as described in "the TNG holodeck episode" that is TATV. That's my advice, and I'm sticking to it! It really, really, really, really is as bad as some of us say...really. You might even watch TATV as the third to last show, then let the Terra Prime twinset serve as the real finale.
I didn't read every response to your query but I'd still like to add my two cents:
1. Overall, the series is good.
2. The pilot episode is somewhat weak, especially the Archer character.
3. Season 1 is the best, followed by Season 4.
4. Season 3 is a love it or hate it kind of thing. I didn't like it.
5. The series finale is very strong. It is stronger than any other Star Trek finale other than TNG. It gets a bum rap due to certain plot developments which I don't want to spoil for you. It will likely bring you to tears if you don't speed your way through the episodes and take time to establish a relationship with the characters.
1. Overall, the series is good.
2. The pilot episode is somewhat weak, especially the Archer character.
3. Season 1 is the best, followed by Season 4.
4. Season 3 is a love it or hate it kind of thing. I didn't like it.
5. The series finale is very strong. It is stronger than any other Star Trek finale other than TNG. It gets a bum rap due to certain plot developments which I don't want to spoil for you. It will likely bring you to tears if you don't speed your way through the episodes and take time to establish a relationship with the characters.
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Welcome to ENT fandom, Rabittooth. You'll enjoy it. Yes, you should form your own opinions about the series.
However, once you watch the series finale, you'll understand completely why people are encouraging you to skip it altogether. Until you see what a travesty it is there's no way for you to understand, unfortunately. It really is THAT BAD and, the penultimate episode, sadly, would have served as an emotionally gratifying, wholly satisfying series finale. It was perfect.
Then Berman and Braga insisted on writing the last one and ruining everything. I wish I were exaggerating. I'm not. I'll go so far as to opine that, had Terra Prime been allowed to stand as the series finale, ENT would have been remembered overall as a Trek classic.
You must form your own opinions, but These Are the Voyages is literally that bad an episode. It is, quite literally, the worst episode of Trek I've ever seen....and that includes very bad Voyager episodes.
However, once you watch the series finale, you'll understand completely why people are encouraging you to skip it altogether. Until you see what a travesty it is there's no way for you to understand, unfortunately. It really is THAT BAD and, the penultimate episode, sadly, would have served as an emotionally gratifying, wholly satisfying series finale. It was perfect.
Then Berman and Braga insisted on writing the last one and ruining everything. I wish I were exaggerating. I'm not. I'll go so far as to opine that, had Terra Prime been allowed to stand as the series finale, ENT would have been remembered overall as a Trek classic. You must form your own opinions, but These Are the Voyages is literally that bad an episode. It is, quite literally, the worst episode of Trek I've ever seen....and that includes very bad Voyager episodes.
A lot of people say Terra Prime is perfect but I just don't see it. It is a good, not great, episode that had its share of weaknesses. Only the last two scenes push it from being an average episode.
I have to disagree. It would still have been a decent action fare with two nice final scenes. I wouldn't consider it a classic like TNG's The Best of BOth Worlds or All Good Things or ENT's The Forge or DS9's Trials and Tribble-ations or TOS' Mirror, Mirror or City on the Edge of Forever.
I don't think it is as bad as Precious Cargo, The Fight, The Disease, Favorite Son, Rise, Let He Who is Without Sin etc.
I hear you, but the reason it's so overwhelmingly bad for me is it put such a sour final touch on ENT as a whole--to call it a bummer of a craphole ending for the series just doesn't do it justice. These Are the Voyages was one lame exclamation point from hell.
Speaking of hell, These Are the Voyages would be comparable to "No Rest for the Wicked" having been the series finale for Supernatural. Now that would be a bummer to end all bummers. Even at that, Sam giving a shit what happened at the end would make No Rest the superior series finale.
Speaking of hell, These Are the Voyages would be comparable to "No Rest for the Wicked" having been the series finale for Supernatural. Now that would be a bummer to end all bummers. Even at that, Sam giving a shit what happened at the end would make No Rest the superior series finale.
LOL!Is it really that bad? Like "Dallas: the whole series was a dream" bad?
Anyhow, the series as a whole sucked. They mess with the Vulcans way to much. Ok enough with the negatives. Now the positives. The show was beautiful to watch, great eye candy. The characters of Phlox and Trip are good. Linda Park is smokin' hot, and Jolene too.
I'd like to add one more piece of advice. Watch no more than one episode per week. I know that's hard when you have all the DVD's sitting right there. Watching them too quickly can seriously limit your ability to form a strong relationship with the characters. I personally viewed all of DS9 in a six month period, not having been familiar with it before, and I really regret that I viewed them at warp speed. Take your time and enjoy.
My honest opinion is that the final episode is no where near as bad as people say. But since so many people seem to feel that way, I guess you'll just have to find out for yourself. I found it sometimes funny, well-paced, and for the first time ever a Star Trek episode made me cry (and I've been viewing since about 1972.)
My honest opinion is that the final episode is no where near as bad as people say. But since so many people seem to feel that way, I guess you'll just have to find out for yourself. I found it sometimes funny, well-paced, and for the first time ever a Star Trek episode made me cry (and I've been viewing since about 1972.)
I can understand, though don't agree, with the pov that TATV isn't the worst hour of Enterprise--but the fact is that it doesn't work at all as a finale! It must be obvious by now that some bad things happen to some good people--that's not the problem--it's the way it was executed. It's very poorly written and things that would have been simple to fix (like people's ranks) make no sense.
I agree, I suppose, that you should watch it. But say goodbye to the characters, cry a little, after Terra Prime, and imagine what comes next. Then watch TATV after you convince yourself that it's some kind of a holodeck recreation written by Troi to help out Riker--that's LITERALLY what TATV is anyway!!! Clearly Troi was in a hurry and didn't worry too much about the details...
I was so angry after the finale, that I didn't watch any reruns or any Enterprise in any way for a couple of years. Then I caught an ep or two on Sci Fi and remembered how I loved it since day one, bought the dvds, and am a huge fan once again.
I agree, I suppose, that you should watch it. But say goodbye to the characters, cry a little, after Terra Prime, and imagine what comes next. Then watch TATV after you convince yourself that it's some kind of a holodeck recreation written by Troi to help out Riker--that's LITERALLY what TATV is anyway!!! Clearly Troi was in a hurry and didn't worry too much about the details...
I was so angry after the finale, that I didn't watch any reruns or any Enterprise in any way for a couple of years. Then I caught an ep or two on Sci Fi and remembered how I loved it since day one, bought the dvds, and am a huge fan once again.
You're just like me, Kayarr. I loved ENT when it was on the air, but TATV just spoiled it. ENT reruns are on Scifi all the time, but I never watch them. I really enjoyed the show during its run; I lamented its cancellation big time, but somehow TATV took the wind out of my sails as a fan. Knowing what happened....ruins it somehow. I can't explain it any better than that.
TATV, truly a crap episode. Yes, certain things happened. Certain things could have happened in such a way that they were remembered with bittersweetness, but to say the execution of the storyline was horrendous is to redefine understatement. Words can't do it justice.
TATV, truly a crap episode. Yes, certain things happened. Certain things could have happened in such a way that they were remembered with bittersweetness, but to say the execution of the storyline was horrendous is to redefine understatement. Words can't do it justice.
Wow. You guys are setting me up for a dilemma here.
I want to judge for myself, of course, and now I'm super-curious about what the hell they could do to be so distasteful.
But...I also want my ENT experience to be a good one...that's why I started this thread.
Hmmmm...tough call.
Kathy and I are gonna start the Series tonight, so we won't have to worry about it for a while I guess.
You guys are awesome...really looking forward to this. Like I said...we're 2 Trek fans who have yet to see a whole Trek series. We're pretty psyched.
-Rabittooth
I want to judge for myself, of course, and now I'm super-curious about what the hell they could do to be so distasteful.
But...I also want my ENT experience to be a good one...that's why I started this thread.
Hmmmm...tough call.
Kathy and I are gonna start the Series tonight, so we won't have to worry about it for a while I guess.
You guys are awesome...really looking forward to this. Like I said...we're 2 Trek fans who have yet to see a whole Trek series. We're pretty psyched.
-Rabittooth
Once I got my DVD's I watched it over a 3 month period. That bad thing is going through withdrawal after that. I was watching so much Enterprise over that time it was like I knew then, then they were suddenly gone.
Oh well, then it was on to NCIS DVD's. At least I made it through the writers' strike.
Oh well, then it was on to NCIS DVD's. At least I made it through the writers' strike.
Well I obviously feel differently. I just don't understand those that feel a bad series finale spoils the rest of the show and your ability to enjoy revisiting it down the road. More often than not series finales are pretty poor. There have been plenty of tv series I loved that not only had a poor final sendoff but entire season or seasons of weak offerings.
Roseanne, a show I loved and thought was brilliant, fell apart about two seasons before it ended and its last season was awful including a very disappointing series finale although in recent years I've managed to like it a bit more than I originally did. The X-Files feel apart about 2-2.5 seasons before it finished up and its finale was mediocre. I enjoyed Melrose Place but it came off the rails at the end of year five with a huge cast turnover and a disappointing sendoff. Seinfeld awful series finale. I don't exactly love ENT but I did enjoy its third and fourth seasons and there were some decent episodes in its first two years(Carbon Creek, Broken Bow, Regeneration, First Flight, Shuttlepod One, Dead Stop, The Catwalk, Minefield, Future Tense, The Expanse). TATV was mediocre.
Yet I still to this day enjoy rewatching all these shows.
Yes but because SN would have left us with a cliffhanger and no resolution. That would have been frustrating. TATV gave us closure. It didn't leave us hanging.
Part of it might be frustration because...
* Just as Enterprise was getting good it gets canceled.
* The character they developed as “the person you would call if you broke down on the highway” gets the shaft.
* The characters are not the leads in their own series finale.
The episode might now lessen the quality or enjoyability of the series, but the frustration caused by the last episode can have an effect of people’s feelings of the series. It is ironic that they pushed to get the 4th season so that the show could go into syndication and then they broke a cardinal rule with that last episode. Killing a main character to end a show has documented negative effects on ratings in syndication. People want to think that the characters of “Friends” are still hanging around the coffee shop, Norm and his buddies are still sitting at the bar, and the Ewing brothers are still fighting. It adds to the re-watch value of the episodes. But when you know ...
* Just as Enterprise was getting good it gets canceled.
* The character they developed as “the person you would call if you broke down on the highway” gets the shaft.
* The characters are not the leads in their own series finale.
The episode might now lessen the quality or enjoyability of the series, but the frustration caused by the last episode can have an effect of people’s feelings of the series. It is ironic that they pushed to get the 4th season so that the show could go into syndication and then they broke a cardinal rule with that last episode. Killing a main character to end a show has documented negative effects on ratings in syndication. People want to think that the characters of “Friends” are still hanging around the coffee shop, Norm and his buddies are still sitting at the bar, and the Ewing brothers are still fighting. It adds to the re-watch value of the episodes. But when you know ...
That's exactly it, in some ways--I never watched it in reruns or syndication, and I loved it--I actually liked season 1 the best! But that was the end for me. Until dvds...still, it killed its syndication value.
Frankly, one reason to skip TATV is because the lead characters didn't actually appear--it was a holodeck program at the time of TNG. Honestly--I think you can skip it and miss nothing. Or watch it with your TNG season 6. Though it actually makes no real sense to the Pegasus plot either...it just stinks 9 ways to Sunday no matter how you look at it.
Frankly, one reason to skip TATV is because the lead characters didn't actually appear--it was a holodeck program at the time of TNG. Honestly--I think you can skip it and miss nothing. Or watch it with your TNG season 6. Though it actually makes no real sense to the Pegasus plot either...it just stinks 9 ways to Sunday no matter how you look at it.
I think Indranee has it about right -- why let anyone dictate your thoughts?
Startrekwatcher, great comments. More over, I remember the crying and hysteria when the script was leaked ahead of time by people who claimed they knew (extra winks) what was going to happen. I think much of the overreacting was from people scarred from expecting one ending and getting another.
Startrekwatcher, great comments. More over, I remember the crying and hysteria when the script was leaked ahead of time by people who claimed they knew (extra winks) what was going to happen. I think much of the overreacting was from people scarred from expecting one ending and getting another.
i would have prefered something that didnt screw over the enterprise actors and characters to make a bad alternate universe tng story.
it had to be alternate to explain the way it just ignored pegasus.
i swear i think braga just read a plot outline of pegasus and didnt even bother to rewatch it.
or what it a way to settle some score against moore like naming ruby after moore's former wife.
but i do agree with you that i dont allow a bad finale ruin the enjoyment i got from the rest of a series.
i just chose to ignore those finales too..
i am sure a lot of seinfeld fans go finale .. what finale.
