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Spoilers General Prodigy plot-arc speculation thread...

I don’t really know where they can go with the whole Solum storyline as a whole, it kind of seems resolved unless they want to do a temporal reset? I think at the most it would be good to have Gwyn as a recurring character. I honestly think that Gwyn should have stayed away from Solum though because of the Temporal Prime Directive. She is a future ‘time agent’ now, any actions that Gwyn takes could alter the future. Gwyn would hopefully be trying to return to Solum in her own time, not in the present? Gwyn should be helping Solum and the Vau N’akat to *recover* from their civil war. If this event was predestined to happen, then Gwyn is better as part of its aftermath helping with Solums recovery and reunification. We need to remember that Solum is a minor planet, I do not think that it should become the focus of this entire Star Trek shows run. It was great in season 1 but hopefully season 2 is about something else other than Solum and the Vau N’akat, though it is always good to pay a visit if there is still a story there which makes sense. :techman:
 
@Timofnine: Gwyn's time is the present, she was created on Tars Lamora 17-18 years ago. And the storyline is clearly not resolved, given that Gwyn has explicitly stated she will go there to try and avoid the civil war/unite them, with (some) aid from Starfleet.

She's not a time agent, she has never done any time travelling.

And I doubt Solum is a "minor planet" for the purposes of Prodigy, as it is the planet where not only one of the main characters is coming from, but also all the villains (of consequence) that we have had so far.
 
Ohhh @Wouter , so Gwyn did not travel to the past with the Diviner? She was cloned in the 2360’s or 70’s not in the the mid 2400’s? That makes more sense I missed that point. Regardless, Gwyn would not have been cloned if it was not for the actions of the future Diviner in the present. She should not exist in the 24th century, Gwyn is a temporal ‘anomaly’ created by a time traveller, possibly with future tech - it is still possible that some form of time agency may very well come after her if she intervenes in history. She could be seen as part of the Diviners plan. I think that we concluded that the civil war on Solum amongst the Vau N’akat is a fixed point in time fated to happen regardless of the Prometheus arriving, Gwyn should not interfere with this fixed point but hopefully after the civil war she can help to reunify and rebuild Solum.
 
She should not exist in the 24th century, Gwyn is a temporal ‘anomaly’ created by a time traveller, possibly with future tech - it is still possible that some form of time agency may very well come after her if she intervenes in history.

Gwyn is another Sela. A child conceived/created by a time traveller from an alternate timeline. AFAIK no time cops ever tried to get rid of Sela.
 
Gwyn is another Sela. A child conceived/created by a time traveller from an alternate timeline. AFAIK no time cops ever tried to get rid of Sela.

Probably because Sela's role in history was necessary and is part of series of events which leads to the creation of the time cops etc.
Much like no one tried stopping future Admiral Janeway from getting home 16 years early. It became part of history and it was probably deemed that this outcome was supposed to happen.

The only difference is: I don't think the abberrant timeline from 'Yesterday's Enterprise' exists anymore (but Tasha was able to survive probably because she passed through the anomaly and it insulated her from the said changes and got integrated into the Prime timeline - it was effectively indicated the Prime timeline actively changed with the ENT-C arriving 20 years into the future - and its return erased that timeline). The future from which Admiral Janeway came from though seems to have been implied that it will continue to exist.

However, we still don't know 100% if the 'alternate future Solum' in which Chakotay is a prisoner is part of a predestination paradox or not.
For all we know, everything that happened to date on PRO is part of a temporal loop/predestination paradox and that no one knows better (they just assume the future Solum where Chakotay is in is 'alternate', but otherwise it might not be).

Given that PRO writers have expressed disdain for 'easy fixes'... I suspect there's at least a possibility our heroes are in for a nasty surprise in discovering that the civil war on Solum is something which is supposed to happen, and in the future in which Chakotay is, SF was already attacked by the Living Construct 52 years earlier just like we witnessed in the present and the mission which Gwyn was sent to may have caused First Contact in the first place.

We'll have to wait and see... but its also possible the wormhole does in fact lead to an alternate future... in which case, the present day solum civil war will be averted, but the alternate future Solum will need to come together (by the survivors) to help rebuild and move forward.
 
Ohhh @Wouter , so Gwyn did not travel to the past with the Diviner? She was cloned in the 2360’s or 70’s not in the the mid 2400’s? That makes more sense I missed that point. Regardless, Gwyn would not have been cloned if it was not for the actions of the future Diviner in the present. She should not exist in the 24th century, Gwyn is a temporal ‘anomaly’ created by a time traveller, possibly with future tech - it is still possible that some form of time agency may very well come after her if she intervenes in history. She could be seen as part of the Diviners plan. I think that we concluded that the civil war on Solum amongst the Vau N’akat is a fixed point in time fated to happen regardless of the Prometheus arriving, Gwyn should not interfere with this fixed point but hopefully after the civil war she can help to reunify and rebuild Solum.

I don't think any temporal agency will interfere with Gwyn.
But it IS (still) possible that the 'alternate future' in which Chakotay is held prisoner in might in fact be part of a prime timeline and all the events we witnessed thus far are part of a temporal paradox (its just no one knows any better) which could lead to that future in exaclty the same way it happene before.

So, everything that happened to date did not change history.... but everything is as it was.

It would be an interesting twist to things and PRO writers mentioned that they don't exactly like 'easy fixes'... but admittedly, that doesn't discount the possibility that the characters were right in describing the 'alternate future' as such... and could be that Solum in the present might in fact avoid a civil war, in which case, the alternate future Solum civil war still needs to come to an end and Vau'N'A'Kat unified (maybe Gwyn will join up with the expedition through the wormhole and help unify her people in both the present and future).
 
Ohhh @Wouter , so Gwyn did not travel to the past with the Diviner? She was cloned in the 2360’s or 70’s not in the the mid 2400’s? That makes more sense I missed that point. Regardless, Gwyn would not have been cloned if it was not for the actions of the future Diviner in the present. She should not exist in the 24th century, Gwyn is a temporal ‘anomaly’ created by a time traveller, possibly with future tech - it is still possible that some form of time agency may very well come after her if she intervenes in history. She could be seen as part of the Diviners plan. I think that we concluded that the civil war on Solum amongst the Vau N’akat is a fixed point in time fated to happen regardless of the Prometheus arriving, Gwyn should not interfere with this fixed point but hopefully after the civil war she can help to reunify and rebuild Solum.
Gwyn was cloned (from the Diviner) during TNG S3 (in the 2360's), this was calculated by others.
As for Gwyn not interfering with Solum - obviously, nor Gwyn, nor Janeway nor Ascencia would agree this is a "fixed point" that can't be tempered with. She has the chance to avoid a disaster of enormous proportions, and save her family and entire species. In the future, I don't think there is much left to unify and what is left may already be unified in "The order" and out for revenge and nothing else. Note that the attack of the Living Construct didn't happen in the original timeline either, where Tars Lamora also didn't exist (and there is no Rev-12 carrying around freed miners). The present timeline is clearly significantly different from the one the Diviner hailed from. Why should the destruction of Solum be "fixed"? There is not a single party who wants this.

Given that PRO writers have expressed disdain for 'easy fixes'... I suspect there's at least a possibility our heroes are in for a nasty surprise in discovering that the civil war on Solum is something which is supposed to happen, and in the future in which Chakotay is, SF was already attacked by the Living Construct 52 years earlier just like we witnessed in the present and the mission which Gwyn was sent to may have caused First Contact in the first place.

We'll have to wait and see... but its also possible the wormhole does in fact lead to an alternate future... in which case, the present day solum civil war will be averted, but the alternate future Solum will need to come together (by the survivors) to help rebuild and move forward.
It's possible that the holo-Janeway's wormhole leads to an alternative future that has been changed already, but where Gwyn (and/or Ascencia) was not succesfull in avoiding civil war and global destruction and disaster. In that case, there may be an older Gwyn - or even a wiser Ascencia or Diviner - who may use the opportunity to send a message to the past in order to inform young Gwyn of what mistakes were made and how to avoid them, once Janeway comes calling to retrieve Chakotay.

What makes me optimistic is that this is a family show. Gwyn was saved by the others and completed the heel/face turn that was already telegraphed. The miners were freed and saved. The Diviner was redeemed (sort of) by the act of Zero and the example of his daughter. Starfleet got a bloody nose, but was very far from being destroyed. The Protogies are getting into Starfleet (with the possible exception of Gwyn, but if so she will at least be happy and I suspect she will follow if we get a S3). Chances are Gwyn won't fail, in the end.
 
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The "warrant officers in training" will probably have, short of the expected mission to save Chakotay that they will probably participate in, their own difficulties in training. Various interviews have made it clear that VA Janeway will not respond the same to them as holo-Janeway. The latter was entirely dedicated to their needs and wellbeing, and was full of patience. The flesh-and-blood version though, won't have that much time for them (she is an admiral, possibly commanding a small flotilla of vessels this time around) and won't have much patience with some of their antics.

They will also work alongside other Starfleet cadets and young ensigns, and even though it is Starfleet, I'm guessing some may not like that a bunch of unruly children/teenagers were put next to them.

For Dal, I think his rebellious streak and lack of any real usable skills (outside his general courage/daring) may give him a hard time at first. Now he will have to follow orders himself, and not just from VA Janeway but from a long line of officers and others in between.

The inclination for unsollicited mind reading may land Zero in hot water at some point, though otherwise Zero would probably do well (maybe not as pilot of the ship though).

Rok has maybe the best tools to make it as a warrant officer, as her intellect and knowledge are nothing short of remarkable in one so young. It remains to be seen though, what her direct Starfleet environment will think of having to work with a young child and with what is basically a toddler. I assume Murf was allowed in mostly because Starfleet wants to study him, and they can keep Rok happy at the same time.

Jankom may have a bit of the same problem as Dal, though at least he has some very usuable skills in the O'Brien tradition. But following standard Starfleet practice and orders in engineering may not be his forte, at first.

No doubt, they will end up proving themselves in the end, but I expect the road to be full of hiccups at first.
 
Robert Beltran is no fan of the prime directive ( https://www.cnet.com/culture/star-t...-beltran-the-prime-directive-is-fascist-crap/) : “The idea of leaving any species to die in its own filth when you have the ability to help them, just because you wanna let them get through their normal evolutionary processes is bunk—it's a bunch of fascist crap. I much prefer the Cub Scout motto."

While I don't see the connection to fascism (it's more a non-interventionist POV, perhaps partially designed so the Federation doesn't waste its own resources on multiple interventions), Beltran may have a point that the Prime Directive is not necessarily correct in all circumstances, at least if it is applied in a dogmatic fashion.

Since Beltran also had to be convinced to be on Prodigy - there were discussions between him and the Hagemans about what would happen to his character - I wonder if it is mere coincidence that Prodigy seems on its way to question (parts of) the Prime Directive through the Solum storyline (much like they seem to question the blanket augment ban, to some extent). His character likely talked with his captors, so Chakotay may have an understanding of what happened. Granted, it's possible that convincing Beltran had more to do with how Prodigy will handle (and resolve, presumably) the relation between Chakotay and Janeway.
 
Much like no one tried stopping future Admiral Janeway from getting home 16 years early. It became part of history and it was probably deemed that this outcome was supposed to happen.

I've wondered if the reason that Captain Braxton didn't stop Admiral Janeway is that he's descended from Captain Janeway in the new Endgame timeline.
 
I've wondered if the reason that Captain Braxton didn't stop Admiral Janeway is that he's descended from Captain Janeway in the new Endgame timeline.

Unlikely.
Braxton mentioned in 'Relativity' that Janeway was responsible for 3 Temporal violations which he had to repair.
One was in the episode 'The Future's end'.
Second was in the Takara sector... episode 'Timeless' (though that was technically Harry Kim and Chakotay).
Third one was not mentioned... but I suspect he may have thought about 'Endgame'.

I just don't understand what 'fixing' entailed on his end. The timeline was effectively changed on those occasions.
Or did Braxton mean that he had to help 'integrate' those changes into the Prime timeline?
 
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Between 15:30 and 17:35, they talk about the role of Gwyn in S2. Kevin Hageman confirms Gwyn won't be offscreen in S2. The Hagemans also reiterate that they will deliver the goods on Chakotay and that we will see Solum in two different time periods (no doubt, Gwyn in the present and Chakotay and co in the future). Directly after that, they also talk about Gwyn meeting the young version of her father there (they don't confirm it explicitly but...).

At 26:00 they say that the teens will earn the ship this time (I wonder if this may point to them getting their hands on the Protostar-class ship in Starfleet service, or of getting the original prototype while making off with Chakotay).

At 30:00 it is said there will be 10 episodes ready for streaming in one go, and then probably a small break before the next 10.
 
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For Dal, I think his rebellious streak and lack of any real usable skills (outside his general courage/daring) may give him a hard time at first. Now he will have to follow orders himself, and not just from VA Janeway but from a long line of officers and others in between.

Dal definitely tried to play "hero of the story" for nearly all of Season 1 and would pay for it several times and have it also pay off several times.

As much as he desperately wants to be an officer or captain of note there's a long streak of episodes of him having to learn and grow about what a captain actually is beyond the shots-caller. The general courage and daring would actually serve him very well in the officer's track in Starfleet training. Pike, Kirk and Picard don't seem to have any "particular" skill outside of their ability to command and trust in their crew.

Janeway and Sisko are the exceptions to this seeming rule as they both had firm backgrounds in Science and Engineering branches, with Sisko being the main engineer designing the Defiant.

If Dal is serious about command, pairing him up with Commander Tysses makes sense to me.

The inclination for unsollicited mind reading may land Zero in hot water at some point, though otherwise Zero would probably do well (maybe not as pilot of the ship though).

People played double-duty on the Protostar because there was no crew. I think pairing Zero up in Medical with Dr Goum would be a good contrasting "odd couple" moment and Zero did seem to have a nack for medicine despite being incorporeal.

Rok has maybe the best tools to make it as a warrant officer, as her intellect and knowledge are nothing short of remarkable in one so young. It remains to be seen though, what her direct Starfleet environment will think of having to work with a young child and with what is basically a toddler. I assume Murf was allowed in mostly because Starfleet wants to study him, and they can keep Rok happy at the same time.

Murf's still kind of the "pet" of the Prodigy kids and having a legitimate child prodigy among them seems to be the best development for Rok herself. Rok asks excitedly what Xenobiology even is at the end of S1 when she's obviously in whatever crash course they're being given so her continuing her study of Murf seems like a really good idea, and plenty of potential plot development to be had there. Maybe she can specialise in it, while also being a genius jack-of-all-trades scientist.

Jankom may have a bit of the same problem as Dal, though at least he has some very usuable skills in the O'Brien tradition. But following standard Starfleet practice and orders in engineering may not be his forte, at first.

Jankom Pogg was also proving himself in front of the engineering cadre that he knew how to fix things with the fun fakeout of going to hit it with his hammer hand.

What I think would be a good early frustration for him would be stuck fixing the food replicators or some other menial engineering task that's still utterly vital for day to day operations/crew comfort. Perhaps sticking him with a vulcan engineer who's perfectly happy with his lot fixing replicators for a living and something going wrong there?

No doubt, they will end up proving themselves in the end, but I expect the road to be full of hiccups at first.

Prodigy runs to the beat of "hiccup and grow" and long may it do so!

Robert Beltran is no fan of the prime directive ( https://www.cnet.com/culture/star-t...-beltran-the-prime-directive-is-fascist-crap/) : “The idea of leaving any species to die in its own filth when you have the ability to help them, just because you wanna let them get through their normal evolutionary processes is bunk—it's a bunch of fascist crap. I much prefer the Cub Scout motto."

While I don't see the connection to fascism (it's more a non-interventionist POV, perhaps partially designed so the Federation doesn't waste its own resources on multiple interventions), Beltran may have a point that the Prime Directive is not necessarily correct in all circumstances, at least if it is applied in a dogmatic fashion.

If I remember it exists as a general rule of thumb in the galaxy 1) Because it's a holdover from the Vulcan way of doing things and was probably part of what they lobbied for as part of the foundation of the federation. 2) The opening episode of Strange New Worlds writ rather large with flashing lights how big of a screw up even vaguely revealling technology can do to a society. A whole planet was able to observe an artificially created wormhole and extroplate Warp-tech derived anitmatter bombs from it. The Federation is post-scarcity due to its sheer size, doesn't mean its rescources are infinite.

Now, could we see more limited humanitarian (what would the actual word be when most of your members aren't human?) maybe.

But how is a society going to feel when they're in the middle of a plague, or some other disaster and people materialise from thin air claiming they're here to help? They're going to assume you're there with false intentions and probably put you immediately to the torch. So you move to hiding the cure in foodstuffs, or blend into the population for a short time and that has its own moral implications too.

Also, what's going to happen when a similar incident or disaster happens again and there's no convienient ship of the week in orbit? It'd create an immediate dependancy of "well those guys came before and gave us free stuff, so let's sit back! They'll be back, right?"

And then you have another Terra Nova on your hands.

Hell, I can think of several examples of this very subject happening here on Planet Earth, where "do good" inentions have knock on effects which result in dependancy. African food aid continously stymies agricultural development of an entire continent due to us just dumping excess grown food there for free. Despite the fact Africa holds 50% of the entire planets arable land, under 5% of it is properly developed because we feel better helping with fixing an immediate need instead of a longer term one.

There's a reason the phrase is "The Road to Hell is paved with good intentions."
 
"Patterns of Force" shows that's how you get Nazis.

Now that's a good episode. You kind of wonder why a more Prussian model wasn't adopted though. Obviously we know the off screen reasons "Hey Gene! We got a ton of nazi uniforms in the stores, been there since we did Hell is for Heros bunch ah nazi stuff too, reckon you could use it?"

"All the World's A Stage" from Prodigy also shows hideous contamination but in a more kid friendly and benign way.

"Blink of an Eye" is another that's relatively benign, but still massively changes an entire planetary culture.
 
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