Frobisher is Canon!
- Thread starter StCoop
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How is he canon? All we know is that a planet which is canon froma TV story had Cybermen on it. Sure, that planet having Cybermen was done in a comic story, but its just an easter egg. The actual canon story of there being Cybermen on Marinus could be completely different then the comic story. So, Frobisher is really no more canon then he was before, which makes him basically noncanon in my opinion (although people who think that the comics and Big finish are canon would disagree with me). Unless we see the shapeshifting penguin on screen or get a direct reference (meaning the Doctor says something like "I once traveled with a shapeshifting penguin named Frobisher"), he's not canon. an obscure easter egg reference to a story he was part of (but looking online not the focus of) doesn't make him canon.
There is no canon.
He was already canon through Big FInish, you silly!
Well, Abslom Daak is *actually* seen, but you can interpret that to be an artist's rendering of the actual character, or that Daak actually, really looks like a comic book guy. Canon is tough at the best of times, with Doctor Who tougher than most. Best not to dwell on such things, and better still not to enforce it on others.
Mark
Mark
People get too involved in the question of whats cannon or not, Yes the TV series barely makes use of ideas from Big Finish. (If at all). But in the end the content of Big Finish can be thought of as a extended cannon that fleshes out the Doctor Who Universe.
But in regards to Frobisher no he's not cannon to the TV series and never likely to be.
But in regards to Frobisher no he's not cannon to the TV series and never likely to be.
Doctor Who has the ultimate 'Get Out of Jail Free' card when it comes to canon - the Time War. Who knows how much got rewritten by the centuries of conflict between the Time Lords and the Daleks? Who knows how many alternate timelines/universes (like the Scream of the Shalka Doctor, for just one example) came into play? Just because something doesn't necessarily fit now doesn't mean it didn't at some point prior.
IMO, Scream of the Shalka can easily be retconned as a War Doctor adventure.
I did think it was kind of a shame that they didn't get Richard E. Grant to play the War Doctor and John Hurt to play Simeon/the Great Intelligence, for that very reason. Of course, it's hard to be annoyed for long at the casting of John Hurt as The Doctor.
On the other hand, Frobisher was also the character played by Peter Capaldi in Torchwood...
Weren't they actually going to explain, in-universe, why the 12th Doctor actually looks like the other characters Capaldi played?
We got an explanation for why he looked like the guy from Pompeii but not Frobisher.
Also, even in franchises that do have more tightly defined canons, using one element from a non-canon story doesn't imply that the whole story happened as shown. It just means the storytellers liked one idea or character from that story enough to incorporate it into their own story. For instance, Star Wars Rebels used the character of Admiral Thrawn from the Expanded Universe even though the events of the EU novels in which he first appeared are no longer considered "real" (and were then replaced by a new in-canon novel by the original author). It's even vaguer when it's just a throwaway Easter egg like a one-word reference to Marinus.
Anyway, I like the suggestion that the Cybermen have not one origin, but many, that they're a natural development among human/humanoid populations on many worlds. It's a nice handwave for all the inconsistent Cyberman origins we've gotten, and for all the different designs they've had.
What was the Pompeii explanation?
As for the Cybermen: I like to think that the alternate Earth from Rise of the Cybermen/Age of Steel is actually Mondas.
Re: Why Frobisher looked like Pompeii guy - yes we did get an explanation, albeit obliquely as part of why two other characters are played by the same actor, in a whole other episode. Spatial genetic multiplicity. It's a funny old world.
Now, Maxil on the other hand...
Mark
Now, Maxil on the other hand...
Mark
Are the Sixth and Twelfth Doctors the only ones who were played by "repeat offenders" (i.e. actors who played other DW roles before they played the Doctor)?
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What was the Pompeii explanation?
As for the Cybermen: I like to think that the alternate Earth from Rise of the Cybermen/Age of Steel is actually Mondas.
It was in The Girl Who Died. When Ashildr died, he initially said he couldn't save her due to the laws of time. Then he looked at his own reflection and remembered where he'd first seen it; Donna had encouraged him to save Caecilius' family from Pompeii blowing up. He realised that he'd subconsciously chosen this face to remind himself that he could always save someone if he wanted, laws of time bedamned.
Apparently RTD's behind-the-scenes elaboration of that was that "Spatial genetic multiplicity means an echo and repetition of physical traits across a time rift." (http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Spatial_genetic_multiplicity) So Gwyneth and Gwen looked alike because they both lived near the Cardiff Rift. Which means that doesn't necessarily explain other doublings like Caecilius/Frobisher or Amy/Soothsayer or various others.
Really, though, dozens of actors have played multiple roles in Doctor Who, so it seems overly fannish even to try "explaining" that. The explanation is that it's a bloomin' TV show and they're actors. I guess I can see it with Gwyneth/Gwen because their names were so similar and they lived in the same place, and at least Caecilius/Doctor served a meaningful story purpose. But it's not something that needs to be handwaved in every single case, since there are just too many.
I just hope the Christmas special doesn't entail Moffat trying to "explain" how the First Doctor has three different faces, one of which looks like the Abbot of Amboise and another of which looks like Solomon the space pirate. (Four faces if you count Edmund Warwick from "The Chase.")
^ Wasn't it also revealed that Gwyneth and Gwen were related? Doesn't rule out the influence of the rift, of course, but people looking exactly like an ancestor (or the same actor playing an ancestor & a descendant) is not uncommon in fiction or drama.
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