Feeling 'Alien'-ated.

[GreenDragonKnight]

First of all the spoiler warning, which I think is absolutely ridiculous by its very concept. I mean, anyone who clicks on a link about a certain movie, TV show, video game, whatever, and doesn't expect some information about it to be there obviously doesn't understand the basic reason that these threads exist: but, just for the record, there will very likely follow information about the Alien film franchise. If this is information you do not wish to be exposed to, read no further.

OK, now that that's clear, anyone who's seen Alien: Covenant, feel free to provide any information about it you wish. Don't worry about spoilers in my case. I'm just debating whether or not to see it. On the one hand, the original Alien is one of my absolute favorite movies of all time, (though none of the sequels), and, from what I've seen of Covenant, it looks pretty promising. On the other hand, I know it's a follow-up to Prometheus, and I feel now that making Prometheus was probably a big mistake. Ridley Scott has said that the reason he decided to make it was because he had often wondered why, in all the subsequent Alien movies, no one had ever thought about going back to the beginning and exploring some obvious questions: who was that Space Jockey? Where was he from? Why was he flying a ship full of Alien eggs? But, you know, I think now that it probably would have been better to just leave those questions unanswered. You know, let those be questions everybody answers for themselves. I mean, I always thought the Space Jockey was some kind of insectoid, elephantoid, some kind of wacky, far out, well, alien. But now we find out, no, the Space Jockeys are creatures genetically just like us. They just have a strange fashion sense. A very strange fashion sense.
So, I'll be interested to hear what others think.

 

[Gaith]

This could have been a continuation of the Prometheus 2: Apparently it's happening thread, but oh well, here are my non-Covenant spoiler thoughts on Covenant:, from its proper review thread (which, actually, this could have been a part of also, if you don't care about spoilers):

I never wanted any explanation/backstory for the xenos, so for me, the thematic incoherence and arbitrary plotting of these two movies is a weird kind of virtue that amplifies the cosmic horror and delicious, crunchy nihilism. If things made sense, and the characters behaved prudently, and the Big Questions were answered, I think I'd be bored and irritated. Instead, we get great actors, beautiful cinematography, great sets, and righteous kills. Indeed, I like to think Sir Ridley is secretly trolling us for wanting more franchise product.

Prometheus: B+
Alien: Covenant: A-​

In short, I totally agree with you on the Alien backstory stuff, but loved both these movies anyhow, much as I loved The Da Vinci Code (movie) for taking the piss out of organized religion in general (though I'm not at all sure that was intended). If you totally hate anything that even touches on the creatures' backstory, you won't like Covenant. If you're open to it, you may still despise it for totally legitimate reasons. If you enjoyed Prometheus as a bullshit space horror movie but wanted more creatures, you'll probably like it.

 

[GreenDragonKnight]

This could have been a continuation of the Prometheus 2: Apparently it's happening thread, but oh well, here are my non-Covenant spoiler thoughts on Covenant:, from its proper review thread (which, actually, this could have been a part of also, if you don't care about spoilers):

Look I'm sorry I didn't notice your precious thread earlier, OK. I promise it was nothing personal.

 

[GreenDragonKnight]

It's just that, the other night I was at my dojo and me and some of the guys got into a discussion about the Alien films and I wanted to continue it. So, here we are.
Anyway, my ever-so-humble opinion about everything up until now:
Alien. Superb. Magnificent. Incomparable. Ever how dated some of it (particularly the computers) may look now, who cares? It was then and still is a gothic horror masterpiece with few if any equals.
Aliens. Overrated and contrived, but still a vitally important part of the Alien mythos.
Alien 3. Horrible. Bleak, depressing, completely out of synch with its predecessors, Swiss cheese plot, ugly, gritty atmosphere with none of the haunted house-like ambience of the original... need I go on? The one and only saving grace of it is it established that the Aliens take on the forms of their hosts, so suddenly it's possible to have many different kinds of Aliens.
Alien: Resurrection. What were they thinking?!?!!??!!?

AVP: Much as I loved a lot of the original Dark Horse AVP comics, the movie was a huge disappointment.
AVP: Requiem: You know I gotta admit, I kind of enjoyed this one, much as it got bashed by the critics. It was interesting seeing a live action Predalien, and a female one at that, so kind of a mini-queen. So, yeah, I enjoyed it up until the last 15 minutes or so; the ending was ridiculous.
Prometheus: As I say, I think now it was a big mistake.
Covenant: I'll find out soon...

 

[GreenDragonKnight]

OK, I know some of you may be surprised that I revived this thread, but I just saw Covenant (I had an 8 1/2 hour flight, it seemed like a good time), and I just gotta say this: Ridley Scott, what in the HELLL came over you?!?!? Huh?!?! The whole Alien saga got off to such a great start, but now... this?!?!?

 

[GreenDragonKnight]

So, this is hands down, no question about it, the worst film in the series yet. And I never thought I would ever say that. I never thought anything could be nearly as bad as Resurrection; but this did the trick. Why? You wonder. Well, I could go on about that all day; but, in short, let's go back in time about a decade, back to when AVP: Requiem was released. It got absolutely slaughtered by the critics, and the main reason for that was the over-the-top gore. And the same is true with Covenant, only even worse; and at least Requiem made some sense. Covenant is just a huge gore-fest, and it doesn't begin to make any kind of sense. Now, it's not that I can't handle movie gore. I saw both of the first two Hostel films numerous times, so I think it's safe to say I can handle movie gore. But the problem is that what made the original Alien so great was the fact that it had so little gore. Sure, some would point out that the chest-bursting scene was very bloody; but the number of overall seconds in the movie was minimal. What it really relied on was raw tension and suspense, that fact that it was gothic horror in the realm of sci-fi monster movies. This one is just gore and blood out the wazoo, and story-wise it's completely senseless. (Would someone like to tell me how Shaw rebuilt David? Or why his hair grew?) Besides, it's completely at-odds with all that's been established so far.
So, the long and short of it is that, I realize now, absolutely without a shadow of a doubt, this whole thing was a huge mistake: the whole idea of doing one, let alone a series of Alien prequels, was a terrible, terrible mistake. They should have just left well enough alone.

 

[Gaith]

OK, I know some of you may be surprised that I revived this thread

After already being directed to the proper review thread? More disappointed than surprised, frankly.

 

[crookeddy]

That would still be REQUIEM......which might be worse than ANY film in ANY series. Bringing out the worst elements of 90210 and PITCH BLACK only killed all attempts at characterization or cinematography.

Yeah, Requiem is wayyyy worse, come on now. Production values alone put Covenant far out ahead of Requiem. It's pretty clear that Ridley Scott has lost it though. He no longer knows what he is doing.

 

[Morpheus 02]

I did not like Covenant because , timewise, it doesn't make much sense...and much more disappointed that David somehow created the Aliens we know...and still doesn't explain the Space Jockey, right?

It's like Ridley Scott forgot the details of HIS original movie, and giving us a bunch of stuff that was really unnecessary.

 

[crookeddy]

Covenant doesn't lead into Alien. It was supposed to be the first of trilogy, with the 3rd leading into Alien.

 

[Starbreaker]

Covenant is pretty bad. I've come to really love Prometheus after several viewings, but I can't connect with Alien: Covenant. No atmosphere at all. And I doubt we'll ever see another Alien movie from Scott.

Blonkamp should be able to try and redeem himself with his script. He needs another hit.

 

[Morpheus 02]

PROMETHEUS earned more than COVENANT, but some of the American audience resented it not being more like ALIEN.

So Scott decided to give us what we wanted with COVENANT, but now it's too much like ALIEN.

Worse, Scott actually apologized for parts of PROMETHEUS.

I find it more difficult to trust American audiences.

The problem in terms of Prometheus not being like Alien is that it gave us some psyche-outs in terms of things that SEEMED to lead into the original Alien, but were false. I mean, ANOTHER Alien ship that crashes, and ANOTHER Space Jockeythat has an ALien burst out of him? It would have been better not to have those elements altogether.

For Covenant being TOO much like ALien -- basically the same plot of an Alien terrorizing the crew of a ship...seems like a recycled plot. Oh, and a colony being decimated by an Alien presence... that too seems repetitive . And also ridiculous - ANOTHER colony mysteriously ALL dying off? Why would the colonists of Aliens have then joined THAT mission, knowing that not just a couple of people died (like James Franco character), but a whole colony???


Another problem with COvenant is that the Alien as we know them from the original is apparently the creation of the android David. From what we understand from the first 2 movies, the aliens seemed to have been around for much longer, and more established than such a recent creation.

These huge inconsistencies have hampered any fans from seriously promoting the movie on social media.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I saw Covanent a few weeks ago. I went in with zero expectations after hearing nothing but bad things about it.

But I thought it was alright. It's the story of an insane android though, and the Alien creation is just a sidestory part of that.

 

[Mage]

I really liked Covenant actually. I see how people that need to have everything fit together perfectly are annoyed by it. Personally, I don't mind a retcon or if something doesn't add up, as long as I enjoyed the movie itself. And I did.

 

[GreenDragonKnight]

After already being directed to the proper review thread? More disappointed than surprised, frankly.

Man just get over it already!!! Geeeez!!! So I didn't notice your precious thread earlier; so the *^*^&*(^&*(B what?!?!? If I've committed a crime then, by all means, get me into court; otherwise just stop whining and get over it!!!!

 

[GreenDragonKnight]

Besides, I somehow doubt that you have a monopoly on Alien-related threads - or any others, for that matter.

 

[GreenDragonKnight]

That would still be REQUIEM......which might be worse than ANY film in ANY series. Bringing out the worst elements of 90210 and PITCH BLACK only killed all attempts at characterization or cinematography.

Well, matter of opinion, of course; I personally will watch Requiem a hundred billion more times before I'll watch a second of this pile of rat-droppings again.

 

[GreenDragonKnight]

I did not like Covenant because , timewise, it doesn't make much sense...and much more disappointed that David somehow created the Aliens we know...and still doesn't explain the Space Jockey, right?

It's like Ridley Scott forgot the details of HIS original movie, and giving us a bunch of stuff that was really unnecessary.

Yeah buddy! You said it! These prequels are so inconsistent with the original it's on the borderline of funny and just plain sad. I mean, let's use the obvious example: when the crew of the Nostromo finds the Space Jockey, they say he's partially fossilized, suggesting that he's been there for hundreds, maybe thousands, maybe even millions of years. According to these prequels, the embryo is going to exit his chest in the Alien fashion a few hundred years from now, just before the crew find him...