Facebook notifies family of death - before police

[ALF]

From Perth, Australia
http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/bob...acebook-first/comments-e6frg12c-1225827778996

An excerpt:

"WHEN Angela and Maryanne Vourlis woke up yesterday, their 20th birthday, they logged on to Facebook expecting to read well wishes and greetings from friends.
Horrifically, the twins were confronted with the devastating news their brother Bobby, 17, had been killed in a triple-fatal accident, The Daily Telegraph reports.
He and two friends died when the car they were in crashed in heavy rain in Sydney early yesterday.
"I didn't get it. All these people were writing, 'RIP Chris Naylor' and 'RIP Bobby', and I thought: `What's going on?'," Angela said."


///

I think this is going to set a precedent, whatever the fallout from this is. And I'm surprised something like this hasn't happened sooner.

I will be very interested to see what happens with this story in the next day or so... will CNN pick it up? Facebook news stories do seem very popular. I guess it just happened in Australia several hours ago.

What really strikes me about this article (and I do feel deep sympathy for the family, this awful event has truly been compounded by the way in which the news was delivered) is that I don't know how I feel about it.

On one hand, the police were trying to confirm ID before next of kin notification... and that's well within protocol. But then obviously the deceased friends were well aware of the tragedy and posted it to his Facebook page. Clearly, they thought the family had already been notified.

I don't see how to administrate this kind of situation as Facebook's moderators.... it's going to be impossible. It's going to end up being in the hands of the people posting and people "brought up" online will end up posting very irresponsible things. This is very pessimistic of me to admit, but I don't see people thinking very clearly about what they post in the years to come. Generally, in my neck of the woods anyway, thoughts come after actions and never before.

Facebook likely has hundreds of moderators. They are busy trying to clean up the undercurrent of slime on the social networking site. I discovered an extremely disturbing Facebook group and sent it out to my friends to gauge their reaction... it was gone within a day or so at only 200 or so members.... but shocking nonetheless! I wondered if someone had reported it or if it were discovered by the mods.

I'm wondering if there is a lawsuit here for the family? Would they have a case against Facebook?

How they hell did these kids find out about the accident? That would be my first line of questioning, were I investigating this. They must have been at the scene, what other explaination is there? If so, in the future will police take people's Blackberries and mobiles at the scene of an accident or crime so that they can control the flow of information? I doubt it very much.

What would you do if you found out about a close friend or a family member passing away on Facebook? The very idea creeps me out... I can't imagine a worse way to get that kind of news.



As I said, this is going to set a precedent because there isn't really any protocol on this but instant messaging, mobile posts, Twitter and the like... more disarray is about to be cast on a very fluid legal framework.

 

[Pingfah]

I agree it is bad, but I do wonder just how much the way the news is delivered can possibly worsen something like the death of a family member.

At first sure, but I find it hard to believe that once the news has sunk in, it's really going to make that much difference to how you handle it.

Also, I don't really see how there could be a lawsuit, if the information is true I can't see how it could be any sort of offense to disseminate it, I don't think people have any particular right to find out bad family news before anybody else. Preferable that they should certainly, but it's not a right. I don't really think it's up to Facebook to be moderating such issues.

 

[Tiberius Jim]

That's a crappy way to find out, but I agree that the way in which the family found out doesn't really change the fact that a loved one was lost.

At least it's not as bad as what the family of Nikki Catsouras had to go through when they opened an email, only to find the pictures of their daughters body mere minutes after her fatal car accident. Not to mention that the pictures are *still* all over the internet.

 

[JoeZhang]

As I said, this is going to set a precedent because there isn't really any protocol on this but instant messaging, mobile posts, Twitter and the like... more disarray is about to be cast on a very fluid legal framework.

what legal framework? - When someone dies, there is nothing that says that the police have to the first person to tell anyone, that's simply how it's worked out due to communications of the past century, things have now changed.

As for the precedent, that's unlikely because this has happened thousands of times before. Someone I knew hung himself and that was all over facebook before the official news broke. It happens every day, hell with the size of facebook, I'll be amazed if it's not happening every hour.

 

[Finn]

Yeah.

This reminds me of an incident last September. My fiancee's brother-in-law's father passed away after a rough battle with cancer. She tried to text him but she got confusing replies asking what happened. It turned out the brother-in-law changed his cell phone....

 

[Shikarnov]

I agree. It's not Facebook that's the issue, it's the friends. They could have just as easily called said family members crying, "Oh, I'm so sorry for your loss - it must be so horrible for you!" or sending fruit baskets and sympathy cards.

Facebook should be held no more liable for posts than AT&T should be held liable for the content of your phone calls or the USPS for the content of your letters. And there certainly should not be a policy to govern personal communications between friends (beyond existing harassment laws and the like).

 

[jamestyler]

As for the precedent, that's unlikely because this has happened thousands of times before.

It happened to me last year. Not through facebook, but twitter. I found out a family member died and when I called home, I was the first person to confirm it to the family.

 

[John Picard]

As I said, this is going to set a precedent because there isn't really any protocol on this but instant messaging, mobile posts, Twitter and the like... more disarray is about to be cast on a very fluid legal framework.

what legal framework? - When someone dies, there is nothing that says that the police have to the first person to tell anyone, that's simply how it's worked out due to communications of the past century, things have now changed.

As for the precedent, that's unlikely because this has happened thousands of times before. Someone I knew hung himself and that was all over facebook before the official news broke. It happens every day, hell with the size of facebook, I'll be amazed if it's not happening every hour.

No kidding. Is the phone company going to be held liable for people calling someone to express condolences? What about the post office if someone were to send a letter in the same scenario? How about an ISP and an e-mail.

This is like holding a newspaper responsible for an ad someone posted in the classifieds. It's not the paper's responsibility to verify the intent of the advertiser.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

I think this is going to set a precedent, whatever the fallout from this is. And I'm surprised something like this hasn't happened sooner.

My friend died in a car crash right after I had graduated high school. Everyone posted on her Myspace page as soon as they found out. This is nothing new. It's a shame the police weren't able to get in touch with the family first, but it's not their fault.

You can't (and really shouldn't) moderate something like this. I don't see grounds for a lawsuit. How the friends found out is an interesting question. It only takes one for facebook info to spread, though.

 

[Kestra]

How the friends found out is an interesting question. It only takes one for facebook info to spread, though.

It's not that difficult. There were two passengers who survived. Depending on their injuries, they probably contacted their family and friends, and once other people know, it spreads. There are many ways to find out in a situation like this, where multiple people the same age are involved.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

None of them had the parents or sibling's phone number

 

[Kestra]

Well right, that's why his family didn't find out until later.

 

[Franklin]

This kind of thing has always happened, and in an age of instant communication, it's going to happen more and more often. Nothing can be done about that in any official way.

If folks knew the police hadn't informed the family yet, and they put the word out themselves anyway, then that's just in bad taste. Or, they didn't give the police a reasonable amount of time to make an official notification (six hours is a long time, though), then that's not good, either. The fault isn't Facebook's, if there's problem at all, it should be that people think a little and be more circumspect about what they use Facebook for.

And, if so many people knew before the family knew, then there's the question of why that network didn't involve the family more personally. Whoever put the first RIP onto Facebook should've called the family instead of just posting an RIP. At least the more personal approach may have stunted the shock of finding out before the police called. I'm an old fogey, but I find Facebook too impersonal for such things, anyway.

 

[Thespeckledkiwi]

At least it's not as bad as what the family of Nikki Catsouras had to go through when they opened an email, only to find the pictures of their daughters body mere minutes after her fatal car accident. Not to mention that the pictures are *still* all over the internet.

Blech I just woke up. Not the greatest story to read when you're half asleep. What a tragic story. Those two idiots at the dispatcher should be sued really for emotional distress. What the hell were they thinking?

 

[Kestra]

And, if so many people knew before the family knew, then there's the question of why that network didn't involve the family more personally. Whoever put the first RIP onto Facebook should've called the family instead of just posting an RIP. At least the more personal approach may have stunted the shock of finding out before the police called. I'm an old fogey, but I find Facebook too impersonal for such things, anyway.

I'm guessing that they assumed the family knew. If someone I knew tangentially died, and I found out, I would just assume that the family already knew as well. It also may have started out as condolences for the driver of the car, perhaps his family was notified, and then someone added something in about the boy in the article.

 

[FrontLine]

You cant administrate this kind of situation as Facebook's moderators. This is the information age. While law enforcement agencies MUST follow established protocols, there is no way to prevent private citizens from disseminating news. As for posting irresponsible things, that is on the conscious of the individual who puts out the information for all to see. Perhaps in addition to teaching our kids to say please and tank you and not to talk to strangers, we also need to emphasize their responsibilities when it comes to instant communications?

As for how the kids found out about this, perhaps they were on the scene of the accident or they had friends who were? I know from my personal experience that I knew who was dead at the scene of multiple accidents before the families were ever told. I just decided that I should remain silent and let the authorities handle it. However in those instances I had no relationship with the deceased. In cases that I am aware of that there was a relationship, news travels fast. People want the loved ones to know as soon as possible instead of having to wait a day to find out. In a case like that I would rather know as soon as possible that a child of mine was dead instead of waiting to be notified 24 hours later.

 

[Yeoman Randi]

The Facebook story is upsetting but in this day and age I'm not surprised it happened. It sounds like the people that had posted on the sibling's page assumed the family already knew about their family member's death. They were only expressing condolences.

The other story however, the story about what happened to the family of Nikki Castsouras is absolutely horrifying. The callous cruelty that the sender of the email exhibited is absolutely frightening. To lose a child is the worse thing in the world for a parent. And to have someone do that to them....and to forever have that image imbedded in their minds..... I don't know. I am just speechless that another human being can be that evil.

That story make me very very sad.

 

[indranee]

that's awful

 

[Rii]

I'm wondering if there is a lawsuit here for the family? Would they have a case against Facebook?

Obviously this is an unfortunate twist on an already tragic event, but implications for how Facebook, the police, etc. operate? I don't see it.

 

[ALF]

I personally didn't ever think that anyone has a reasonable shot at a case against FB for emotional distress... but I don't know that much about how legal cases are handled with that intangible element of emotional damage and the like. Obviously to a family with a loss, that would be the least of their concerns at a time like this. Plus I'm sure FB's lawyers covered this in the fine print agreement when you sign up.

I try to keep well informed about the news, world news in particular. So I'm really surprised that this has happened so many times before, and to many of the posters on the board. My sympathies for all of you that have had to receive news in this way... mostly because it comes with it the need for more official confirmation. "Is it true?" "Did this really happen?" "Why did I have to read about this online?"

I guess this is just another example of the emerging generation that posts every detail of their lives willy nilly without any regard for the impact of their statements. I just don't hold out any hope that responsibility and reflection will ever be of any importance to this "instant message generation".... for whom it is far more desirable to act than think.

Technology seems to be changing our lifestyle by the hour.