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I watched this last night (Amazon Prime, streaming) with a friend.
Thought it was a very good and thought-provoking movie. Though as Evil Bill Jobs explained the "test," I right away said, "that's not the Turing Test."
Interesting design on AVA and the other fem-bots. I guessed the house-servant was another fem-bot short after the second time we met her.
On the ending: It's interesting to me how quickly people are to write Caleb off. I mean, even the best kind of window whether made out of glass, LEXAN, regular plastic, double-pained, laminated tempered glass, whatever isn't destruction proof. Once he's calmed down, I'm sure Caleb could find something available to him in terms of materials, tools, or whatever to take out the door. Hell even the door's locking mechanism itself isn't 100% indestructible unless Nathan invented adamantium before inventing AI. Once into the main residence there's sure to be someway he could contact the outside world or just take a hella-long hike. Odds aren't in his favor, but he's hardly 100% toast.
I also didn't completely get why Ava played him in such a way, and how we're meant to take it. I'd not like to think we're supposed to take her as a cold-hearted, indifferent, psychopath who left a guy who did her no harm (and was instrumental to her escape) to an uncertain fate.
And where did she get the wig we see her in at the end? None of the other fem-bots had hair like that, particularly the Asian fem-bot we see her peeling the skin off of.
But, all-and-all a good movie. Good to see some nice, cold, Sci-Fi ever now and then.
Very good film. Quiet, interesting. The guy who played Nathan did a fantastic job.
The ending was brutal, though. I can't believe she left him there. I don't know how much of a recluse Nathan was, but I would think someone will show up eventually to check on him. Also all those people in his office knew that Caleb went there. So I'm guessing he doesn't die.
Will Caleb be blamed for Nathan's murder? Are they going to believe a killer robot did it to escape? I guess he's got all the video footage from the security system. And again, the helicopter guy can verify he took a man there, and took a woman back.
The ending was brutal, though. I can't believe she left him there. I don't know how much of a recluse Nathan was, but I would think someone will show up eventually to check on him. Also all those people in his office knew that Caleb went there. So I'm guessing he doesn't die.
They would eventually send someone to check on him, yes, but that could be weeks or months. It didn't seem like he had access to food and water in that room, so I don't see him surviving until help arrives.
Nathan made it clear, he didn't allow outsiders near the building or tolerate intrusion. Caleb made it clear that he has no family, no girlfriend, no friends.
Technology can intentionally be made durable. Gadgets and appliances aren't.
Although, I have this old Braun blender that used to belong to my mom, and she bought it before I was even born. Damned thing still works like a charm. The blade is still sharp, for crying out loud.
Even positing that this is true, Nathan's approach to prototyping doesn't suggest that he'd spend the time and money to do so - and as mentioned, we see the robots coming apart pretty easily in the movie.
Living things are durable because they continually self-repair. Odds are, in a few months or years Ava's toast.
I just watched this for the first time, and I loved it. It really shows that all you need for a good movie, is a good idea, a good cast, and a good director. I kind of wondered if something along the lines of the big reveal at the end was going on, but things did not play out how I expected.
I would love to see a sequel following Ava in the outside world, but I don't think it needs to have a sequel.
I wonder if Domhnall Gleeson, and Oscar Isaac will have any scenes together in Star Wars: The Force Awakens?
Right. Lots of wear and tear on her skin and fingers for starters (odd that Data never went through that) and that's assuming she doesn't run out of energy first.
For anyone who hasn't seen this yet, or wants to watch it again they will be adding Ex Machina to Amazon Prime's free streaming video service next month.
For anyone who hasn't seen this yet, or wants to watch it again they will be adding Ex Machina to Amazon Prime's free streaming video service next month.
For anyone who hasn't seen this yet, or wants to watch it again they will be adding Ex Machina to Amazon Prime's free streaming video service next month.
You have to pay for Prime and you get the Amazon free streaming service. Prime is really worth it, if you order frequently from Amazon. The streaming service is a bonus.
I mainly just use my Prime membership for the free streaming. It's $100 a year, which is about the same as Netflix, so it works out pretty well. Plus I get free 2 day shipping when I do occasionally order things.
I found this movie at the library yesterday. It was quite good. I like it that we're getting more smart SF movies lately. At first I felt it was way off the mark in its definition of the Turing Test, but it redeemed itself by the next conversation, which pointed out that the TT doesn't matter -- it just proves mimicry, not consciousness. One could quibble about some of the details, but overall it was a very well-informed and thoughtful discussion of AI issues, and a pretty interesting story with all four characters having hidden agendas (though Caleb's kind of backfired on him there).
I saw that review quoted above talking about its treatment of gender, but I thought it was fitting the way it used Nathan's objectifying treatment of his AIs as a metaphor for society's objectifying treatment of women, or vice-versa, or both. Sure, it was from a male perspective and it sexualized the female characters (all of whom were literally "objects" in a sense), but it did so in order to comment on that attitude, I think. After all, neither of the male characters comes off very well; Nathan is a bastard and a user, and for all that Caleb imagines himself a nice guy, he still reacted to Ava based more on the feelings she evoked in him, and his fantasies and hopes about her, than anything else. Which is probably why she left him behind. So her escape can be read as a feminist metaphor. Okay, it's a feminist metaphor that included a full frontal and rear nude scene, but I think it worked because that was something she did for herself, not for Nathan or Caleb, and in a way it symbolized her humanity. Although of course it was when she stepped out of the "black and white room" and saw the sky that the central metaphor paid off.
Acting-wise, Alicia Vikander was very good -- maybe not as good as some at conveying a sense of inhumanity or artificiality, but I guess that wasn't the goal here. I suppose the visuals took care of that well enough. And she's just generally very engaging and talented. Oscar Isaac was effectively creepy as Nathan, putting on this casual bro routine that was disquieting from the start because you knew he had all the power and that it was just a pretense. Gleeson wasn't as much of a standout, but he did the job as the basically amiable lead. It's weird to think that in The Force Awakens, Isaac will be playing one of the main good guys and Gleeson will be one of the bad guys. Should be interesting to see how they pull off the reversal.
I think it would have been interesting if Nathan would have actually said at the end that he thinks the Turing test is crap. He would have said "Yes, she passed this test (which didn't turn out to be the Turing test, in any case), and yes, that means that I've made an amazing breakthrough in AI and will now become a gazillionaire, but that doesn't mean that she actually has consciousness."
I think it's creepier, and fits the sexual-exploitation allegory better, the way it was done: He believes she's conscious, but he doesn't care, because he still sees her as an object for his use. Humanity is just a commodity to him. I'm reminded of the villain in Humans,
who argued that sapient AIs would be more desirable slaves, that it was more satisfying to have absolute power and control over beings who are aware of the fact and can do nothing about it.
I also like the way his underestimation of Kyoko's post-wipe self-awareness reflects our cultural prejudice about intelligence. We tend to assume there's some threshold, some single dividing line where consciousness suddenly springs into being, and that anything below that level is not conscious at all. But modern studies of animal intelligence have discredited that idea, and it now seems evident that conscious awareness is more of a continuum -- that many animals have some degree of self-awareness even if they aren't as smart or communicative as we are. I'm increasingly of the opinion that our belief that consciousness requires some mysterious, ineffable spark or secret ingredient is merely our own need to feel special about ourselves -- that maybe consciousness is automatically a property of any neural network designed to perceive and react to its own state, and the rest is all just a difference in the degree and complexity of the consciousness. I doubt Alex Garland had that idea in mind, but I like how well Kyoko fits with that idea of mine.
Then with the ending, with Ava leaving Caleb behind, does that make us, the audience, agree with Nathan that it shows her cold, calculating, machine-like nature, or does it make her all too human?
I don't see it as either. As I said, I take a feminist reading. She left him there because, as a conscious being who was held prisoner, her priority was her own liberation, and he was just a means to that end. Even though he meant well, he was merely there as part of Nathan's test. Nathan tailored her features to be attractive to Caleb so that he'd fall for her and play into the test. So she had no reason to believe that his feelings, however sincere, were something that would benefit her or that she had any obligation to respond to.
More importantly, once he saw that she'd killed Nathan, what are the odds that he would've continued to be okay with helping her to escape? A human seeing an AI kill another human would probably have an instinctive fear response and see her as a threat, to himself and to the rest of humanity. The odds were that he'd try to stop her, or at least would alert the authorities to her existence. So she had to trap him in order that she could escape. It's not necessarily fatal; he probably could rig some way out eventually. But she'll be safer if he doesn't get out.
Okay, first off, did anyone not assume the Japanese girl was a robot the moment they saw her? Because I sure as heck did, so I gotta dock Caleb some brain points, especially when she performs that dance with Nathan in perfect unison.
People make assumptions. Nathan had presented Ava as a breakthrough, and she was not human-looking aside from her face, so Caleb wasn't expecting to see more convincing gynoids. Although once Nathan explained that there had been earlier models that he'd mindwiped, that was when Caleb should've figured it out. He was kind of slow there.
But remember: Nathan picked Caleb as a means to an end. As he eventually admitted, it wasn't because he was the smartest guy around, but because he would be a good mark, someone who could be manipulated. So it's not the inconsistency it would be if Caleb really were as smart as Nathan flattered him to think he was.
And then, what happened to her? Nathan hit her in the mouth, and she fell down - that shouldn't be enough to terminate her, should it? I would have liked the ending considerably more had Ava pieced her back together also, and taken her with her. Maybe even re-activated all the other AIs.
They probably couldn't have passed for human or functioned outside. Remember, Nathan wiped their minds. He thought he'd only given Kyoko enough programming to be his servant and concubine, and though she had enough awareness to plot against him, she probably didn't have enough to pass for human.
As it is, we're ultimately left with the same old anti-science "meddle not with forces beyond your understanding" trope, mixed with a bit of that old-fashioned fear/loathing of beautiful/sexy women.
I don't agree at all. That's only the case if you see Ava as the villain. I think it's basically Frankenstein. People tend to assume that's a story about the evils of playing God, but that's just how Victor Frankenstein himself sees it. The creature says outright that he would have gladly been gentle and kind if anyone had shown him kindness in turn; it's not a story about the evil of creating life, but a story about the evil of abusing our children. Ava didn't kill Nathan because she was Technology Gone Wrong, she killed him because he enslaved and imprisoned her.
I mean, this is a guy whose default for the AIs he created was to put them in sexy nude female bodies. Sure, he justified it to Caleb in terms of intelligences needing sexuality as an incentive to interact, but if that were all it was, he should've built some of his robots with plugs instead of sockets, so to speak. The fact that they were all female shows that the sexuality that really drove him was his own. He wanted to create AIs so he could use them -- and, implicitly, sell them -- as sex slaves. He wanted women that he could objectify, control, reprogram, and dispose of at a whim. Ava and Kyoko weren't malfunctioning appliances, they were rebelling slaves. Sure, they were more brutal than they needed to be, but the only example they had to follow was Nathan's, and he had shown no qualms about destroying any of them.
To be sure, there is a horror angle here, an ambiguity about the ending. The emergence of an AI race could bring the Singularity and the end of humanity. But I think the film is posing the question of whether we deserve to survive, if this is how we treat the life we create. At least Ava gave Caleb a chance to survive if he was smart enough to get out of his dilemma. Maybe the same goes for everyone else.
As it is, we're ultimately left with the same old anti-science "meddle not with forces beyond your understanding" trope, mixed with a bit of that old-fashioned fear/loathing of beautiful/sexy women.
I don't agree at all. That's only the case if you see Ava as the villain.
[...]
To be sure, there is a horror angle here, an ambiguity about the ending. The emergence of an AI race could bring the Singularity and the end of humanity. But I think the film is posing the question of whether we deserve to survive, if this is how we treat the life we create. At least Ava gave Caleb a chance to survive if he was smart enough to get out of his dilemma.
Isn't that the same logic the Jigsaw killer in the Saw movies uses? He isn't a serial killer, because the lethal traps he puts people in can be survived with the proper combination of sangfroid, cleverness, cooperation and luck.
And an "element" of horror? It turned into a full-on slasher movie at the end, with Ava as the villain. Sure, Nathan was scuzzy too, and Caleb wasn't being entirely altruistic either, but Caleb certainly didn't deserve what sure read to me like a probable death. The point you raise about her own security is a valid one, but she could have told Caleb that she'd call in a rescue for him once she felt safe. Your reading is an interesting one, but I think you're stretching to be so sure that Ava didn't pretty much murder Caleb by keeping him locked in an unbreakable cage.
