Ex Machina(2015)
- Thread starter RAMA
- Start date
Rotten Tomatoes 88% rating is about right. I thought it was very good but somewhat short of amazing, mostly because what I look for in a film is a protagonist to like, and I found all three of the leads to be a little too flawed and none of them really "arc". All the characters are kind of imprisoned by their own limitations, which I guess was the point, and it's kind of sad that way.
It feels kind of like Moon did to me. It feels like a quality indie film from someone who is learning and growing and who will go on to do even better films.
It feels kind of like Moon did to me. It feels like a quality indie film from someone who is learning and growing and who will go on to do even better films.
I saw the movie last night and really enjoyed it. I don't understand why more Twilight Zone-esque science fiction films get more wide releases. The market is obviously there. There were several people in the showing I went to, even though some of them were obnoxious.
I didn't even recognize Alicia Vikander until she was with her natural hair there at the end. That was a fantastic acting performance. Domnhall Gleeson is normally a great actor, but I think his American accent was a little off-putting here. Oscar Isaac really stole the show, though.
Overall, this is definitely something I'm going to want to own in the future. It's mesmerizing.
I didn't even recognize Alicia Vikander until she was with her natural hair there at the end. That was a fantastic acting performance. Domnhall Gleeson is normally a great actor, but I think his American accent was a little off-putting here. Oscar Isaac really stole the show, though.
Overall, this is definitely something I'm going to want to own in the future. It's mesmerizing.
Sgt. Pepper
Lieutenant Commander
Just got back from seeing this and I like it. I thought it was a great movie. I was a little disappointed about the ending. but overall, I thought it was really good. I like how they kept us guessing about Nathan, is he an asshole or isn't he? I definitely feel like it could have been longer though. I would have liked to see more exploration of Ava. Also, the location was absolutely wonderful, was it Iceland?
Kind of weird that Domhnall Gleeson was in an episode of Black Mirror a few years ago, in which he played a robot with advanced AI meant to mimic a human, and now he stars in this, playing the human who interacts with a robot with advanced AI meant to mimic a human.
Anyway, I enjoyed the movie, though I do think it falls a bit short of "great".
SPOILER SPACE
DON'T READ FURTHER IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN THE MOVIE
One thing I think might have made the ending a little better would have been if the final conversation between Caleb and Nathan had had a little more….I don't know….substance? Not sure if that's the word I'm after, and I know this is kind of nitpicky, but I think that convo could have been written a little better, and done more to illuminate their rival perspectives, rather than just explain the logic of the reveal re: the "real test".
I think it would have been interesting if Nathan would have actually said at the end that he thinks the Turing test is crap. He would have said "Yes, she passed this test (which didn't turn out to be the Turing test, in any case), and yes, that means that I've made an amazing breakthrough in AI and will now become a gazillionaire, but that doesn't mean that she actually has consciousness."
That is, in my version, Nathan would have put forth the idea that just because an AI is able to mimic human behavior so well that it fools humans, and it can make us think that it's alive and can even make us fall in love with it, that doesn't mean that it actually has human-like consciousness. He legitimately believes that Ava's just following programming to try to escape, and doesn't have any consciousness of her own. Caleb takes the opposite view.
Then with the ending, with Ava leaving Caleb behind, does that make us, the audience, agree with Nathan that it shows her cold, calculating, machine-like nature, or does it make her all too human?
Anyway, I enjoyed the movie, though I do think it falls a bit short of "great".
SPOILER SPACE
DON'T READ FURTHER IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN THE MOVIE
One thing I think might have made the ending a little better would have been if the final conversation between Caleb and Nathan had had a little more….I don't know….substance? Not sure if that's the word I'm after, and I know this is kind of nitpicky, but I think that convo could have been written a little better, and done more to illuminate their rival perspectives, rather than just explain the logic of the reveal re: the "real test".
I think it would have been interesting if Nathan would have actually said at the end that he thinks the Turing test is crap. He would have said "Yes, she passed this test (which didn't turn out to be the Turing test, in any case), and yes, that means that I've made an amazing breakthrough in AI and will now become a gazillionaire, but that doesn't mean that she actually has consciousness."
That is, in my version, Nathan would have put forth the idea that just because an AI is able to mimic human behavior so well that it fools humans, and it can make us think that it's alive and can even make us fall in love with it, that doesn't mean that it actually has human-like consciousness. He legitimately believes that Ava's just following programming to try to escape, and doesn't have any consciousness of her own. Caleb takes the opposite view.
Then with the ending, with Ava leaving Caleb behind, does that make us, the audience, agree with Nathan that it shows her cold, calculating, machine-like nature, or does it make her all too human?
Sgt. Pepper
Lieutenant Commander
What I hinted at before in my first post was the disappointment for me was that Ava just left Caleb there to die. I felt she would at least let him go. I'm glad Ava freed herself because it seems Nathan was just using the robots as sex slaves, but I felt it was just really cold leaving Caleb there. I guess that's the whole point of the ending was to keep you guessing. Maybe that's what gives her consciousness, realizing that she's just a slave like the Japanese girl and the internal desire to be free.
I didn't point it out earlier, but this movie really felt like an early Christopher Nolan movie. Hopefully this director will grow to become an even better director.
One small nitpick I had though was the helicopter pilot, did he not wonder what happened to Caleb and why was he picking up this woman? Maybe Ava killed him too.
I thought the movie did a good enough job indicating there was something deeper at work with Ava than just mimicry, and that she wasn't behaving the way she did merely to manipulate Caleb so she could escape.
I still wouldn't go as far as Nathan and Caleb to believe she had achieved a human-like consciousness, but I do think there was a new consciousness of some kind that had been created there.
I still wouldn't go as far as Nathan and Caleb to believe she had achieved a human-like consciousness, but I do think there was a new consciousness of some kind that had been created there.
Agreed. Low budget, high concept science fiction films still have a place in today's market. I would love to see more films like this.
I saw it last night, it was absolutely stunning.
Saw it last night.
I enjoyed it a lot, and so did the rest of the almost packed theatre I was at.
Having said I liked it, I think I was a tad disappointing; I was expecting more based on some of the reviews I saw/read.
In the end, Ava did exactly what Nathan said she would do: used Caleb for her own purposes and when she had gotten what she wanted she didn't even bother looking back at him as he pleaded for his life.
I don't like that ending. I'm not saying its a bad ending, I think it is a good ending... I just don't like it.
I enjoyed it a lot, and so did the rest of the almost packed theatre I was at.
Having said I liked it, I think I was a tad disappointing; I was expecting more based on some of the reviews I saw/read.
In the end, Ava did exactly what Nathan said she would do: used Caleb for her own purposes and when she had gotten what she wanted she didn't even bother looking back at him as he pleaded for his life.
I don't like that ending. I'm not saying its a bad ending, I think it is a good ending... I just don't like it.
I loved the film, but I have a question.
Didn't Caleb program the system to deactivate the doors. So when did that program get overridden, trapping him in the facility?
Didn't Caleb program the system to deactivate the doors. So when did that program get overridden, trapping him in the facility?
It reversed the security program. When the power was offline, the doors would unlock. Once the power was restored, the doors would lock.
I don't really get the impression Ava left him in there to literally die. It seemed more like just a delaying tactic so she could escape, and that she assumed (like I did) that Caleb would be smart enough to eventually find a way out.
Because otherwise she would have to be completely cold and heartless in the end, and I don't think that's ultimately the way the director wanted her to come off. Especially after all the hard work he did to develop her and make her seem like a complex and emotional being.
Because otherwise she would have to be completely cold and heartless in the end, and I don't think that's ultimately the way the director wanted her to come off. Especially after all the hard work he did to develop her and make her seem like a complex and emotional being.
Yeah but the film said earlier, in a dialogue between Nathan and Caleb, that AI will look at us like we look at Neanderthals. Other dialogue in the film supports this coldness that AI will have for us.
But Awesome Possum I seem to remember everything being red when we last see Caleb, and that the monitors were off and he realized that he no longer had access to anything.
But Awesome Possum I seem to remember everything being red when we last see Caleb, and that the monitors were off and he realized that he no longer had access to anything.
This. Ava masterfully manipulated Caleb (just as Nathan knew she would), and at the end, showed absolutely no empathy for him, not even traces of it. And all this despite the fact that he seemed to be a good, innocent person, and genuinely cared about her. She got what she wanted (freedom) and never looked back.
That was really fucking disturbing, when you look at the big picture, because basically, mankind gave birth to AI that really doesn't give a shit about its creators. Or it could be that this was just Ava's personality trait, and that every artificial life form has a potential to be unique...
Unless there's a sequel, we'll never know.
All in all, finally, a thought-provoking sci-fi movie that's not overly pretentious. A solid 8.5/10.
EDIT: There is one loose end, though. Caleb's self-mutilation scene implied that he indeed was a seriously messed-up individual, but what did it mean? Did he honestly at some point thought he might be a robot? If so, what was it that gave him the idea? Alex Garland should have either expanded on this, or cut the scene entirely, because it only raised questions, whilst not doing much for the plot. IMO.
Spoilers follow.
Okay, first off, did anyone not assume the Japanese girl was a robot the moment they saw her? Because I sure as heck did, so I gotta dock Caleb some brain points, especially when she performs that dance with Nathan in perfect unison. And then, what happened to her? Nathan hit her in the mouth, and she fell down - that shouldn't be enough to terminate her, should it? I would have liked the ending considerably more had Ava pieced her back together also, and taken her with her. Maybe even re-activated all the other AIs.
As it is, we're ultimately left with the same old anti-science "meddle not with forces beyond your understanding" trope, mixed with a bit of that old-fashioned fear/loathing of beautiful/sexy women. Sure, Ava had every reason to want to escape and survive, and to incapacitate Nathan, but to kill both him and Caleb? It might have been a lot more interesting had she let them go once her escape was secured.
Ergo, for all its glossy visuals and neat dialogue, the whole movie essentially boils down to Oscar Isaac giving a nuanced, compelling performance and Alicia Vikander being super-beautiful, wonderfully graceful in her movements, and, eventually, entirely nude. Neither of which are bad things, mind, but neither add up to a great movie.
I'll go with a B. All three leads are very good, and I'm definitely excited to see Isaac menace the X-Men, but I can't say the movie really presented any new ideas, or even tried to.
Okay, first off, did anyone not assume the Japanese girl was a robot the moment they saw her? Because I sure as heck did, so I gotta dock Caleb some brain points, especially when she performs that dance with Nathan in perfect unison. And then, what happened to her? Nathan hit her in the mouth, and she fell down - that shouldn't be enough to terminate her, should it? I would have liked the ending considerably more had Ava pieced her back together also, and taken her with her. Maybe even re-activated all the other AIs.
As it is, we're ultimately left with the same old anti-science "meddle not with forces beyond your understanding" trope, mixed with a bit of that old-fashioned fear/loathing of beautiful/sexy women. Sure, Ava had every reason to want to escape and survive, and to incapacitate Nathan, but to kill both him and Caleb? It might have been a lot more interesting had she let them go once her escape was secured.
Ergo, for all its glossy visuals and neat dialogue, the whole movie essentially boils down to Oscar Isaac giving a nuanced, compelling performance and Alicia Vikander being super-beautiful, wonderfully graceful in her movements, and, eventually, entirely nude. Neither of which are bad things, mind, but neither add up to a great movie.
I'll go with a B. All three leads are very good, and I'm definitely excited to see Isaac menace the X-Men, but I can't say the movie really presented any new ideas, or even tried to.
I thought the movie explained that well enough, that spending so much time in such a strange environment and seeing the things he did was seriously starting to mess with Caleb's mind. And most of the audience was probably starting to wonder at that point if Caleb was an android as well, so it only made sense that the character was beginning to question it.
Yeah that was ultimately my view as well. The movie was certainly well directed and had some very compelling performances, but in the end didn't do anything with the subject of AI that we haven't really seen before.
Unless of course you count having the Turing test explained in a whole lot more detail.
How much time, exactly?
Nah, it would be way too unimaginative. Although, the idea of an AI administering an unorthodox variant of a Turing test to another AI does sound intriguing.
Also, did it strike anyone else as a bit of a cheat that Kyoko didn't whir as she moved, despite only being insulated by a rather thin layer of "skin"? To do so would have given that twist away, of course, but then I wasn't at all fooled anyhow. In a plot where conversation means so much, how could it possibly be coincidence that a potential robot was mute? It couldn't.
